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Thread: More Agents for EBII

  1. #1
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Icon5 More Agents for EBII

    So, we have already some agents in EBII but what is you opinion for more?

    The first one in everybody mind would be the princess. That's for sure one Agent that I do believe EBII team will add once they finish most of the mod because it is one of the most accurate with the game and we can even rename it to Noble Woman for factions like Carthage, Patrician Woman for Rome, Royal Woman or something like that for the Hellenic Kingdoms, and other names for other factions that may have them. They would be allowed to marry other generals but not do diplomacy and this would indeed add another diplomacy option when dealing with other kingdoms.

    Still, there are other options too. We could rename the priest agent and make him a colonist leader spreading his culture on your land and, specifically for Barbarian factions, give the option to start a "migration" (using the warpath mechanic from Kingdoms) and invade other lands. Imagine as you are playing as Rome and suddendly a Barbarian faction decides to migrate to your lands with thousands of troops. Pretty fun.

    If anyone has more ideas on how more agents could be included in EBII, it would be great to write it down

  2. #2
    isa0005's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    There was a submod that added all of these agents and then some, though I don't think its in development anymore. I'm in full agreement, I'd love to see these agents utilised in some fashion or another.

  3. #3
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    I've got a few thoughts on this:
    1. the EBII has it's logic and balance. Adding agents could upturn it in an upredictable way. How the AI would handle it (in the other mods it's very active eg in sending priests), how it would (and should) impact traits, how to craft it for each faction - all these are intricate questions. It's also a gigantic work - in the SSHIP the traits' definitions and triggers for the agents take 25% of the whole EDCT (and EDA perhaps too).
    2. the lack of some types of the agents is an examples of how the EBII stripped some useful mechanisms from the M2TW (like charge, dread, significance of traits for the gameplay, family tree management etc.). However, it added many other mechanisms in such a good way that I do appreciate the mod nevertheless and I recon it to be one of three greatest mods for the M2TW ever (with TATW and submods, and SS and submods). However, even if I'd like to have some of them back, given the balance and immersion, I'd not play a submod with agents (on the other hand: I'll play the forts and supply costs submod).
    3. some say that more submods is better than fewer, but I'd rather see your, Lusitanio, time, energy and invation to be spent on the core of the game ;-) I had such energy two years ago for the SSHIP and it faded away...
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 18, 2019 at 02:14 AM.
    For those who want to play a historical mod in a medieval setting:
    try either the Titanium, the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project + minimods,
    or the Broken Crescent + Buff and Shine submod.
    ..........................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods: SSHIP (2018), Wrath of the Norsemen (2018), Broken Crescent (2018).
    Thrones of Britannia: review, opinion on the battles, ideas for modding.
    Minimods for the SSHIP: Generals Traits, Provincial Titles, Crowns.
    Short guides for the SSHIP: population growth, forts and watchtowers.
    Pros and cons of having Merchants in an M2TW mod.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Dominant strategy in Attila TW and Rome 2 TW: “Sniping groups of armies”.

  4. #4

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    The first one in everybody mind would be the princess.


    ...says the guy working on a script with 5 variables and 198 sections to circumvent the damn limitations of this game by sacrifying (without any qualms) the princesses...

    (do i break the forum rules if i bury the account of the OP in the Nevada desert?...)

  5. #5

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    I think the Warpath mechanic would be interesting if implemented in some form, but it would likely take too much effort or be outright impossible to make it work properly. Also I don't see the point of having princesses that can't marry, although the submod which seemed to merge merchants and priests was interesting.

  6. #6

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusitanio View Post
    So, we have already some agents in EBII but what is you opinion for more?

    The first one in everybody mind would be the princess. That's for sure one Agent that I do believe EBII team will add once they finish most of the mod because it is one of the most accurate with the game and we can even rename it to Noble Woman for factions like Carthage, Patrician Woman for Rome, Royal Woman or something like that for the Hellenic Kingdoms, and other names for other factions that may have them. They would be allowed to marry other generals but not do diplomacy and this would indeed add another diplomacy option when dealing with other kingdoms.
    or you can simply reduce their availability to monarchies only. also having princess engage in diplomacy isnt far fetched imho, as they obviously wouldnt travel on their own and would be accompanied by a host of servants, officials etc. anyhow, i always thought that the agents, and princess in particular, would add an extra layer to the game's depth. also, and im not sure if that actually work or just a speculation, marrying princess to another faction's king or heir as a part of alliance seems to strengthen that alliance beyond the 'regular' one.

  7. #7
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by isa0005 View Post
    There was a submod that added all of these agents and then some, though I don't think its in development anymore. I'm in full agreement, I'd love to see these agents utilised in some fashion or another.
    Yeah, this submod: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...Agents-Revived
    Sadly the guy stoped working on the submod, but he had some really interesting concepts.

    the EBII has it's logic and balance. Adding agents could upturn it in an upredictable way. How the AI would handle it (in the other mods it's very active eg in sending priests), how it would (and should) impact traits, how to craft it for each faction - all these are intricate questions. It's also a gigantic work - in the SSHIP the traits' definitions and triggers for the agents take 25% of the whole EDCT (and EDA perhaps too).
    It would be a matter of testing and working on traits, as you can see on the agents submod, a single guy made a lot of nice working traits, imagine a team dedicated to it. Plus, a lot of the existing traits could be already applied to many of the agents.

    Lusitanio, time, energy and invation to be spent on the core of the game ;-) I had such energy two years ago for the SSHIP and it faded away...
    Thanks for the kind words Jurand!

    says the guy working on a script with 5 variables and 198 sections to circumvent the damn limitations of this game by sacrifying (without any qualms) the princesses.
    You had to be the exception

    thought that the agents, and princess in particular, would add an extra layer to the game's depth. also, and im not sure if that actually work or just a speculation, marrying princess to another faction's king or heir as a part of alliance seems to strengthen that alliance beyond the 'regular' one.
    For sure! I heard about that too but I'm not sure if it's true...

  8. #8

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Was sad to see the sub-mod vanish but the concepts sound good. Having never played unmodded M2TW could marrying off a princess lead to your faction inheriting the land of the other faction when it dies? That would be a neat mechanic to have so I can play around a bit more with diplomatic conquering rather than by the sword

  9. #9
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by Haze88 View Post
    Was sad to see the sub-mod vanish but the concepts sound good. Having never played unmodded M2TW could marrying off a princess lead to your faction inheriting the land of the other faction when it dies? That would be a neat mechanic to have so I can play around a bit more with diplomatic conquering rather than by the sword
    Some years ago, I saw a mod for M2TW that allowed Castilla to marry their princess with Aragon and inherit that faction lands. Sadly, I don't remember anymore the mod or how they did it, but I do remember being impressed by it x)

  10. #10
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    I think it could have been Hispania in the Middle Ages.

  11. #11
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I think it could have been Hispania in the Middle Ages.
    Indeed, it was and it is still present on that post. Thanks Jurand!

  12. #12
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    I think Miguel shows how much more is possible to mod with the M2TW engine.
    Have a look at tmodelsk mod for the SSHIP - he's a very ingenious programmer. He also provides a source code for everything - it would be very useful if only one would have time to delve into java...

  13. #13
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I think Miguel shows how much more is possible to mod with the M2TW engine.
    Have a look at tmodelsk mod for the SSHIP - he's a very ingenious programmer. He also provides a source code for everything - it would be very useful if only one would have time to delve into java...
    Yeah, he made a lot of changes but most of them are really only for SSHIP, and the ones that aren't, the most important are already in EBII

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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    So, does anyone remember what were the effects of the "bad agents" like witches and others?
    And the inquisitors, they were able to kill characters, what if we could spawn them in the campaign as something else?

  15. #15

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Witches function the same as heretics, they spread heresy.

    In M2TW Inquisitors are often sent in when the percentage of Catholics dips to an undesirable level in any given settlement (of a Catholic faction). Inquisitors spread the Catholic faith in the current region that they are in, much like Priests, and may denounce Heretics, Witches, Generals and any characters they suspect of blasphemous behavior. They can prove to be serious problems due to the fact that they have no quarrel with trying and executing any member or agent (even Priests) of your faction whose piety is in question.

  16. #16

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Depends what they could do, and if the AI could use them effectively.

  17. #17
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleonMaster View Post
    Witches function the same as heretics, they spread heresy.

    In M2TW Inquisitors are often sent in when the percentage of Catholics dips to an undesirable level in any given settlement (of a Catholic faction). Inquisitors spread the Catholic faith in the current region that they are in, much like Priests, and may denounce Heretics, Witches, Generals and any characters they suspect of blasphemous behavior. They can prove to be serious problems due to the fact that they have no quarrel with trying and executing any member or agent (even Priests) of your faction whose piety is in question.
    Thanks Napoleon! I'm actually interested in seing what the inquisitor can do and how to modify it into an EBII agent.

  18. #18

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Witches also can passively attack family members in terrain giving them negative traits. IIRC those may have been even serious ones, which could even more deteriorate your generals, decrease stats, hitpoints of FM etc. those attacks didnšt have any animation so i assume they just had % chance of infliction when they were stationed nearby of general. about inquisitors, i would solve the problem of countless attempts of general execution with some precious trait( probably the similar to assassin failed attempts, after which fms get trait of suspicious, superstitious- increasing their vigilance).
    Last edited by Maroslav; August 31, 2019 at 10:05 AM.

  19. #19
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    Yes, I have seen the traits for Witches and they influence the FMs when they are near them. Sadly, I don't see how they could be useful in EBII.

  20. #20

    Default Re: More Agents for EBII

    I would appreciate an agent who would prevent betray or at least help with generals loyalty. Perhaps influence being factor.

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