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Thread: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

  1. #1
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    Following the discussion on infantry charges, I've been doing some testing with charge distances, and my observations have been inconclusive. I need some more people looking at this and feeding back to get a better picture of what's going on.

    The current charge distances on the stat_charge_dist line for each unit are shorter than in vanilla. We shortened them because it appeared to improve cohesion, but it may have had other impacts (as always seems to be the case in the M2TW engine...).

    Are there any volunteers to attempt some Custom Battle testing with different values? You'll need an unmodified 2.35 EDU and Notepad++ to make the edits required. The parameters are as follows:
    1) Pick a unit - preferably a line infantry unit either with javelins or without.
    2) First test charges without any changes. Pick that unit and one other as the general (something without missile weapons), and one opposing unit (again without missiles). Charge the general unit into melee with the enemy unit so you can flank/rear charge with your test unit.
    3) Observe, note what you see.
    4) Repeat a few more times for validation of your first observations.
    5) Go into the EDU entry for your unit. If it's stat is 14, set it to 40. If its 17 set it to 30. If it's 22, reduce it to 20. Repeat the above.
    6) Note the differences between the two.
    7) Bonus marks for anyone who can video or screenshot their tests.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; May 17, 2019 at 06:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Lusitanio's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Request] Playtesting charge distance changes

    I will test that today Quintus!

  3. #3
    bitterhowl's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    I'd advice to set to 1-2 pilum units throwing distance at 50. Suppose to see precursor mechanics working as it should.

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

    Because AI is dumb and full of errors.

  4. #4
    Lusitanio's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    Okay, so I tested it with three units. Liby-phoenician hoplites (General unit) and Libyan Swordsmen agaisnt a unit of Etruscan Hoplites. All of them had a stat_charge_dist of 14 before being changed to 40.
    There are some clear differences.

    For the hoplites, it is good because they start charging sooner, before they would walk to to the enemy and start the charge when they were close, because of it, sometimes they would be attacked by the charging enemy before starting their own charge. Well, that doesn't happen anymore.

    For the swordsmen with javelins, it's different. With 14 charge distance, they would send their javelins, walk and when close to the enemy, they would charge. What would happen most of the times was that only like 10 troops of the unit would engage the enemy and the rest would stay behind and slowly join them.
    Now, with 40 charge distance, I saw two different behaviours that still seem better than before. Most of the times and because I ordered them to attack a bit far (but sometimes not that far), they would throw their javelins, start the charge animation but give up after only a bit of running and walk to the enemy all together and no men would stay behind. The other behaviour was that if I ordered them to throw the javelin when they were close to the enemy, they would do a perfect charge and attack all together. Still, this last behaviour is not certain to happen all the times, but even then, they would attack all together.

  5. #5
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    How do the javelin-armed unit perform when simply ordered to charge (Alt+double click), without a volley first?

  6. #6
    Lusitanio's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    How do the javelin-armed unit perform when simply ordered to charge (Alt+double click), without a volley first?
    I can't compare with before but it is still buggy. I have tested several times and it seems that most of the times it happens that they will charge, stop after running some meters, and then run at the enemy (but all of them together). Sometimes they will do it correctly, that is, charge at the enemy from distance and especially when they are formed and stoped before being ordered to charge.
    I would say it really depends on the distance and if the unit is already moving or not.

    You can see in this link the before and after of charging after throwing javelins:

    https://imgur.com/a/Ewunkof

  7. #7
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    I've been hoping to find out what causes a "good" charge (i.e., cohesive unit runs together and attacks with as many individuals as possible) versus bad where only a small handful of front liners runs and charges with the rest straggling behind. I still don't have a sold idea of how to avoid the bad completely and consistently do them perfectly. I know waypoints before a waypointed charge usually does not work out well, but when directly charging either from standing still or moving, it's almost a tossup far as how they'll react. I was hopeful this distance tweak might help, but sounds like similar behaviors still happening.

  8. #8
    bitterhowl's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    Did you changed prec attribute to thrown in test?

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

    Because AI is dumb and full of errors.

  9. #9
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Did you changed prec attribute to thrown in test?
    No, we've abandoned that approach and gone back to using prec. The point of this test is not to see whether or not it's better without prec, because we've already tried that and it is worse. The point of this test is to look at charge distances.

  10. #10
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: [Playtesting Request] Charge distance changes

    I think infantry in the EBII should charge like the bonobo mothers - anytime, at any distance.

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