The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

[alhoon]

Building guilt? Understanding racism and it's effects well into the 21st century is no more building guilt than teaching German students about the Holocaust their grandparents and great-grandpatents participated in. It's history. History that still continues to effect our current time.

Erasing the black marks and stains that our countries committed years ago will not make us clean now.

Not boiling everything down to racism doesn't mean "Erasing the black marks and stains that our countries committed years ago"

Take... France and Belgium for example. Do Algerians, Senegalese etc rage and all in France?
Do the Rwandans rage and all in Belgium?
Do Indians, that were enslaved to the English till less than a 100 years ago and then treated badly for the next 50 years until they were decolonized, rage and all in UK?
And both those countries acknowledge their colonial past. The English themselves agree that throwing Indians to machineguns in WW1 without increasing their autonomy as they have promised, was not exactly decent.

China has its own version of patriotic education. Good way to highlight and exaggerate your country's achievements and values while casually glancing over or plain out ignoring "bad history" that country has. Nothing but revisionist history.

China is not progressive, they're very authoritarian. That some people do it worse doesn't mean that progressives do it right.

https://time.com/5889907/trump-patriotic-education/

[https://harvardpolitics.com/patriotic-education/

Oh, .
That is actually very dangerous. OF COURSE the ####ing far-rights will try to top the Progressives in idiocy and add an element of danger in it.
I believe Trump is trolling but that these ideas resurfacing in USA of all places - after we saw what came of them with WW2 - is concerning. At this point, this is ranting matter for the Far-right thread.
I honestly hope in the future it will remain a ranting matter and not a serious, potentially very dangerous, topic.

We had more than one members of this forum practically radicalized in my opinion, and the reason for them turning more and more and more far-right / alt-right was not that they were convinced by the right. They were convinced by the left.

Criticism of a racist marxist pseudo-science being taught in school isn't moral panic, nor would it be if schools were caught teaching National-Socialism, Syndicalism or Anarchism or any other ideology.
I mean if they taught about CRT and how marxism in general led to biggest act of genocide in human history, it would be educational, but teaching them CRT itself is indoctrination and parents are the ones that should get to decide curriculum, so yeah.

[Lord Thesaurian]

There are no riots, but if there are, that’s just the language of the unheard and they should be embraced, unless the rioters are Republican. Defunding police is a moral imperative for social justice and Republicans are racist for opposing it, but if voters don’t like it, it’s actually just a terrible idea Republicans had to prevent Democrats from increasing police funding. CRT is nothing more than a right wing myth designed to create a wedge political talking point, but it’s also a brilliant academic approach vital to US education, and Republicans are racist for opposing it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Such is the way in which the Democrat establishment launders far left extremism. As discussed already, Left wing identity politics are originally a variety of Marxist politics, a “founder of CRT” describes himself and fellow founders as Marxists, and the goal of CRT in education, according to this same founder, is to empower workers, namely the young, to push left wing political leaders to bring US policy in line with his far left political views. Luckily, parents aren’t fooled by the left’s gaslighting and indoctrination campaign:

Federal Lawsuits Say Antiracism and Critical Race Theory in Schools Violate Constitution

Students, parents and teachers challenge whether schools can compel participation in exercises, separate students by race to teach about equality

https://www.wsj.com/articles/federal...on-11625151879

[alhoon]

Wait, schools separate students by race? That can't be true.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Wait, schools separate students by race? That can't be true.

Of course it’s happening. Whites are dangerous and make POC uncomfortable with their whiteness, so best to separate the privileged colonizers from the People (tm). Whites are allowed in some common spaces, but only for purposes of public shaming “exercises” to remind them of all the evil their savage race has caused throughout history. You know, standard separate but equal antiracist stuff.

A black mother is blasting her daughter’s Georgia elementary school for “segregating” African American students to give them “more opportunities” amid a series of controversies tied to critical race theory.

Kila Posey filed a federal discrimination complaint against Mary Lin Elementary School in Atlanta after learning that her daughter had been placed in a class only for black students.

The outraged mother told WSB-TV that principal Sharyn Briscoe, who is also black, informed her that students were being separated by race to give them more opportunities.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/11/mom-sa...ghter-lawsuit/

A Black mom is accusing a Las Vegas charter school of creating a hostile learning environment for her white-passing son by requiring him to participate in the school’s social justice curriculum.

In the federal lawsuit, Gabrielle Clark and her son, William Clark, allege that Democracy Prep at the Agassi Campus violated the high school senior’s First Amendment rights by “repeatedly compelling his speech involving intimate matters of race, gender, sexuality and religion” during a required civics class. New York-based attorney Jonathan O’Brien is representing the Clarks. Marquis Aurbach Coffing is the Las Vegas-based firm serving as local counsel. The lawsuit was filed Dec. 22 in the U.S. District Court of Nevada.

The Nevada State Public Charter School Authority, which oversees the charter school, is named as a defendant along with Democracy Prep — as are the civics teacher, several school administrators, the school’s board of directors and the school’s Manhattan-based charter management organization, Democracy Prep Public Schools.

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2021/0...race-identity/

The latest complaint comes from Stacy Deemar, a white teacher in a K-8 school district in Evanston and Skokie, IIl., just north of Chicago. She alleges that teachers and students are required to participate in racially segregated antiracist exercises and that teachers are required to teach material depicting white people as inherently racist oppressors.

The suit alleges the district’s policies violate the 14th Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection and Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination by race, color or national origin in public schools.

But don’t worry, it’s all good because something something Holocaust something Hitler something Trump something Republicans are the real CCP.

[Infidel144]

^ The black mothers of white supremacy...

[alhoon]

Of course it’s happening. Whites are dangerous and make POC uncomfortable with their whiteness, so best to separate the privileged colonizers from the People (tm). Whites are allowed in some common spaces, but only for purposes of public shaming “exercises” to remind them of all the evil their savage race has caused throughout history. You know, standard separate but equal antiracist stuff.



But don’t worry, it’s all good because something something Holocaust something Hitler something Trump something Republicans are the real CCP.

I couldn't believe it. I read the links.
Trump 2024.


Thankfully, things aren't that bad for the sane part of the West (everywhere else in EU, North America, Australia) and don't seem to be heading that way. This is a bizarre and awful problem that, at least so far, seems concentrated in USA.

[antaeus]

Criticism of a racist marxist pseudo-science being taught in school isn't moral panic, nor would it be if schools were caught teaching National-Socialism, Syndicalism or Anarchism or any other ideology.
I mean if they taught about CRT and how marxism in general led to biggest act of genocide in human history, it would be educational, but teaching them CRT itself is indoctrination and parents are the ones that should get to decide curriculum, so yeah.

It is an outlandishly exaggerated fear about a moral teaching. So yeah. Criticism of a racist marxist pseudo-science being taught in school is amoral panic.

[Vanoi]

Not boiling everything down to racism doesn't mean "Erasing the black marks and stains that our countries committed years ago"

They don't. I mean I went to school here. The only time racism really got brought up was in terms of history class. Sometimes law education.

Take... France and Belgium for example. Do Algerians, Senegalese etc rage and all in France?

Not even a fair comparison. I don't think Algerians or Senegalse experienced slavery in the early 17th century under France then got freed in the 1800s only to experience more than a century of Jim Crow segregation.

But I'll bite.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/10481...ing-for-justic

Do the Rwandans rage and all in Belgium?

No but why would they? Rwandans have their country. They don't have to live in the country that colonized and ruled their lands for decades. This comparison makes absolutely zero sense in regards to African-Americans.

Do Indians, that were enslaved to the English till less than a 100 years ago and then treated badly for the next 50 years until they were decolonized, rage and all in UK?

Another very bad comparison but I'll bite again.

https://www.ft.com/content/224109be-...d-da70cff6e4d3

https://www.hindustantimes.com/enter...878284554.html

https://www.businessinsider.in/india...w/74169159.cms

The Indians have not forgot what was done to them. They have not "gotten over it".

And both those countries acknowledge their colonial past. The English themselves agree that throwing Indians to machineguns in WW1 without increasing their autonomy as they have promised, was not exactly decent.

Acknowledging crimes is one thing. Making amends for them is another.

China is not progressive, they're very authoritarian. That some people do it worse doesn't mean that progressives do it right.


Oh, .
That is actually very dangerous. OF COURSE the ####ing far-rights will try to top the Progressives in idiocy and add an element of danger in it.
I believe Trump is trolling but that these ideas resurfacing in USA of all places - after we saw what came of them with WW2 - is concerning. At this point, this is ranting matter for the Far-right thread.
I honestly hope in the future it will remain a ranting matter and not a serious, potentially very dangerous, topic.

My point in mentioning it is that even if you don't agree with CRT, what conservatives are advocating is just stupid and like you said, dangerous.

[alhoon]

@Vanoi, when did you get to school?

Also, keep in mind the brainwashing doesn't happen in all school districts - yet.
Nor it will probably. The Christianofascists will implement their Hitler-Youth education in their states as a result of and a reaction to the progressive idiotic education priorities and white-shaming.

About France, England, Belgium and their colonies: I disagree with your take. Algerians and Senegalese experienced conditions very similar to slavery. I don't think they faced as much racism as USA black people, but I am certain they did face racism. But now, they don't just leave "more peacefully" amidst French, they live peacefully. That one riot in 1961 before Algiers was independent doesn't say much.

Now, on Rwandians: Yes, they have their country. So? How that changes that the Belgian colonial forces brutally suppressed them for decades and then set up a system that resulted in one of the worst genocides in history during the 90s?
But I will bite again: African Americans can take a DNA test, figure which country their kidnapped ancestors were from and go there. I.e. they also have their countries. They don't have to live in the land that colonized them and never ruled their lands.

About India: The first link I can't read. The second one is a Bollywood actress asking a very good question but I don't see cities in England burning by Indian anger over it, nor petitions (by Indians) to have Churchill's statues removed.
The third link shows how bad Indians had it under the British, I would dare say a lot worse than black people in USA in the 50s. And I still don't see Indians burning London or York every year or so.

They have totally gotten over it.

Getting over it doesn't mean saying "Oh, I am cool that the Brits sent my great grandfather to the machineguns, killed my grandfather for rebellion and left my grand mother to starve to death in 1943." It means not burning down English cities 60 years after the fact and telling people British people are inherently anti-Indian.
Nobody disagrees that the English were buttholes to Indians.
But the Indians got over it.


PS. I have spoken with several Indians (all of them in Europe though, not Indians in India) and they all told me that while the English were bad, the local strife without the English as the Mughal Empire was disintegrating was as bad or worse. I.e. "Sure, they were buttholes. But probably better than our other options at the time."
Again, that is what I got from 3-4 Indians I have spoken with in Conferences etc. I haven't spoken with Hindu nationalists or anything. Those people acknowledged that their view of "Well, they were as bad as any other ruler at the time would be" is not universal among their communities.
And to be honest, I don't think that "Rajputs would have treated us worse than the English" absolves the English for what they have done.

[Cope]

It is an outlandishly exaggerated fear about a moral teaching. So yeah. Criticism of a racist marxist pseudo-science being taught in school is amoral panic.

Parents and voters are right to be concerned about attempts to smuggle race essentialism into education. In higher education, a significant proportion of universities - in violation of the First Amendment - are now demanding that faculty applicants demonstrate their fealty to liberal identarianism to be considered.

[antaeus]

Parents and voters are right to be concerned about attempts to smuggle race essentialism into education. In higher education, a significant proportion of universities - in violation of the First Amendment - are now demanding that faculty applicants demonstrate their fealty to liberal identarianism to be considered.

Can you explain what fealty to liberal identarianism is in practice?

[Cope]

Can you explain what fealty to liberal identarianism is in practice?

The institutional demand for conformity with liberal moral/political objectives (as they relate to identity). Here is a brief excerpt from the discussion w/regard to education:

DEI statements have grown more routine in recent years, especially on the West Coast. Between 2018 and 2019, most schools in the University of California system mandated DEI statements for all faculty applicants, with a system-wide task force recommending that the requirements be standardized across UC schools. Such requirements soon made their way east: In 2020, a job posting at the University of Denver asked applicants "how you plan to integrate DEI into your role as a faculty member, including new or existing initiatives you would like to be involved with."


This swift march has not gone unopposed. City Journal‘s Heather Mac Donald has blasted DEI requirements as an assault on meritocracy, quipping that Einstein’s groundbreaking research had nothing to do with diversity, equity, or inclusion. Paul agreed, saying it was "concerning" that DEI has begun to "take precedence over merit." The study notes that at the University of California, Berkeley, more than 76 percent of applicants to a life sciences post were eliminated on the basis of their DEI statements.

Others, like the American Enterprise Institute's Max Eden, see the requirements as ideological litmus tests, loyalty oaths to a "woke" worldview in which equity matters more than education and free thought.


"Universities are conditioning employment on fealty to an ideology that is inherently hostile to the university's traditional mission," Eden said. "If colleges started asking prospective faculty about their patriotism or commitment to American ideals, you can bet there would be a mass outcry about academic freedom."

Greg Lukianoff, the president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), echoed Eden's concern.


"The idea that someone looked at the current crop of professors and said, ‘There's just not enough political homogeneity' is remarkable to me," Lukianoff told the Free Beacon. "I fear that higher education has become a conformity engine." That conformity, Paul and Maranto note, "may also result in a narrowing of research questions, with negative consequences for intellectual pursuits."



The study, which reviewed postings on three popular online job boards, suggests that DEI litmus tests are not aberrational. They are now common at both public and private universities—especially the elite ones, which the study found were 18 percent more likely than non-elite schools to require diversity statements. The authors defined an "elite school" as any college or university in the top 100 of the 2020 U.S. News & World Report rankings.

https://freebeacon.com/campus/study-...academic-jobs/

[antaeus]

The institutional demand for conformity with liberal moral/political objectives (as they relate to identity). Here is a brief excerpt from the discussion w/regard to education:

So kind of like the pledge of allegiance?

[Cope]

So kind of like the pledge of allegiance?

No, because applicants aren't being screened on the basis of their willingness to recite the pledge.

[antaeus]

No, because applicants aren't being screened on the basis of their willingness to recite the pledge.

Yah duh... *fake cough* analogy *fake cough*

Cope, do you ever make judgements based on your moral code?

[Cope]

Yah duh... *fake cough* analogy *fake cough*

A bad analogy. The pledge of allegiance is not treated as obligatory, nor should it be. That would be viewpoint discrimination.

Cope, do you ever make judgements based on your moral code?

Yes. That doesn't mean I endorse publicly funded institutions performing ideological litmus tests.

[antaeus]

A bad analogy

It is a good analogy.

Yes.

All I needed was the yes.

[Cope]

It is a good analogy.

All I needed was the yes.

I see we've given up on arguing seriously (I suppose I'll take the W), but it's still worth mentioning that the personal moral decisions people make in their capacity as private citizens are not equivalent to institutional thought policing.

[antaeus]

I see we've given up on arguing seriously (I suppose I'll take the W)

Congrats.

but it's still worth mentioning that the personal moral decisions people make in their capacity as private citizens are not equivalent to institutional thought policing.

What do you think institutions are, other than collections of individuals or the sum of their collective thoughts, negotiations and compromises?

I mean, the Constitution is literally the end result of a bunch of people getting together, and nutting out a framework that is entirely based on their legal and moral understandings. And it is designed to be an editable, updateable, living document. So if this moral panic you're so enamoured with does indeed become dominant or mainstream, the only thing that prevents it becoming constitutional as well is a vote or two in Washington (simplified for effect).

So yeah. Selective moral panic. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

[alhoon]

No, because applicants aren't being screened on the basis of their willingness to recite the pledge.

Yah duh... *fake cough* analogy *fake cough*

Ahem... I disagree with you both.
A teacher that mentions he will be taking a knee during the pledge of allegiance and instructing his students to do so, will get booted from most schools except in those bizarre, ultraprogressive districts.