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Thread: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

  1. #1021

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    "Schools in Burbank will no longer be able to teach a handful of classic novels, including Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird, following concerns raised by parents over racism.

    Middle and high school English teachers in the Burbank Unified School District received the news during a virtual meeting on September 9.

    Until further notice, teachers in the area will not be able to include on their curriculum Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird, Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, Theodore Taylor's The Cay and Mildred D. Taylor's Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry."

    https://www.newsweek.com/kill-mockin...ncerns-1547241

  2. #1022
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The devil is in the detail.

  3. #1023
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Warning: bad words.



    That video, more or less says all I want to say, more or less, about the progressives.
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  4. #1024

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    That video, more or less says all I want to say, more or less, about the progressives.
    Did AOC force Anne Hathaway to apologize or something?

  5. #1025
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Did AOC force Anne Hathaway to apologize or something?
    Nope. But identity politics are killing the Democrats. As that guy said, minority votes for Democrats were less this time around than in 2016, because, lo-and-behold, a black person is not JUST a black person. Looters are egalitarian in harming business. Demonization of police is unpopular with a lot of people, including minorities. Stock market prospects, unemployment faring well under Trump affect minorities too. Black people whose live matter would probably tell you that Jobs Also Matter, so they won't by default like the more forgiving approach of democrats towards illegal immigration.

    The idiots in the democrat party were surprised the Latinos in Florida moved towards Trump - I was not. Trump's economy was better for them. Sure, he said some bad things about Mexicans long time ago, but then jobs matter more than some mean words.
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  6. #1026

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Nope. But identity politics are killing the Democrats. As that guy said, minority votes for Democrats were less this time around than in 2016, because, lo-and-behold, a black person is not JUST a black person. Looters are egalitarian in harming business. Demonization of police is unpopular with a lot of people, including minorities. Stock market prospects, unemployment faring well under Trump affect minorities too. Black people whose live matter would probably tell you that Jobs Also Matter, so they won't by default like the more forgiving approach of democrats towards illegal immigration.
    Over 90% of Black men and women vote Democrat. As far as politics is concerned, a black person is just a black person. Both parties practice identity politics, because, contrary to popular opinion, they are the most effective way of winning elections. I'm not going to say that Trump's message is meticulously crafted or anything, but it does appeal to specific demographics. And you can tell when GOP ads are targeted towards minorities, toward working white men, towards women, or towards the general public.

    The idiots in the democrat party were surprised the Latinos in Florida moved towards Trump - I was not. Trump's economy was better for them. Sure, he said some bad things about Mexicans long time ago, but then jobs matter more than some mean words.
    Political experts are specifically singling out Cubans in Southern Florida. Again. Identity politics. The art of getting the Latino vote isn't about abandoning identity politics, it's about breaking down the Latino demographic into more specific groups for more effective targeting. There are political differences between Latino nationalities as well as Mexicans who vote Republican and Mexicans who vote Democrat. Just as there are specific interests that concern Cubans in particular, which are separate from the rest of the voting bloc.

  7. #1027
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Wait there, I think there's a miscommunication. Of course if you forge a message or a policy that helps group A, you will influence group A's opinion towards you positively. Groups large and small protecting their interests is actually a cornerstone of democracy. If you convince most of the "blocks" that you will work for their favor, you win the elections, as simple as that.

    Perhaps I didn't say it right when I said "identity politics". Yes, Trump telling the coal miners they will mine sooo much coal when everyone else is demonizing them is a kind of identity politics. You could bet that most black coal miners voted for Trump even though the coal mines were closing one after the other.

    I am not sure I can express it correctly. What I mean is more to the tune of "Democrats pander to the various groups they want to entice focusing too much on the race issue when the race issue is not that important to all people of a certain skin color.


    In any case: You mention that 90% of black people vote for the Democrats. I am not convinced. I would say that 90% of black people asked say they vote for Biden which is not the same as 90% of black voters actually voting for democrats all the way down the ballot.
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  8. #1028
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    That video, more or less says all I want to say, more or less, about the progressives.
    The issue is more or less what you’d expect. The Democrat Party has shifted further and further to the left in recent years in a feedback loop where liberals make up a greater share of the total and conservatives leave the party.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...last-30-years/

    Political identification remains the paramount influence over vote choice, political behavior and reasoning. This, coupled with the role environmental influences play in shaping political attitudes throughout one’s life, as well as the fact political views in journalism, tech, and academia skew left, can reinforce this feedback loop within the party.

    https://calgara.github.io/Pol157_Spr...ert%202017.pdf

    https://scholarworks.boisestate.edu/...polsci_facpubs

    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/ms...ideologies.pdf

    So, while Democrat leadership has a strong incentive to cater to their increasingly radical base in order to drive turnout, this can collide with the ideological divide between an increasingly liberal party and a consistently center-right general public.


  9. #1029

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    The issue with assuming that Americans are center-right, is the same as with any self-identification poll. As the full article of the stated poll shows, even among Republicans, 4% self-identify as liberals. To say nothing of the rather vague label "moderate" and what it actually means, and this is reflected in polling across issues. Americans are repeatedly voicing support for liberal ideas, even as they identify as "Moderate" or "Conservative".

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Wait there, I think there's a miscommunication. Of course if you forge a message or a policy that helps group A, you will influence group A's opinion towards you positively. Groups large and small protecting their interests is actually a cornerstone of democracy. If you convince most of the "blocks" that you will work for their favor, you win the elections, as simple as that.

    Perhaps I didn't say it right when I said "identity politics". Yes, Trump telling the coal miners they will mine sooo much coal when everyone else is demonizing them is a kind of identity politics. You could bet that most black coal miners voted for Trump even though the coal mines were closing one after the other.

    I am not sure I can express it correctly. What I mean is more to the tune of "Democrats pander to the various groups they want to entice focusing too much on the race issue when the race issue is not that important to all people of a certain skin color.
    The race issue is certainly important to a lot of people of color. Hence why Democrats consistently poll highly among minorities. Look at Clinton vs Obama Black turnout. Certainly, and I will be the first one to stress the point, the race thing alone isn't responsible for why Hillary's Black turnout was lower, but it was definitely a factor. The allure of electing a Black president is going to be strong among Black communities, even if they don't admit it.

    People want to be pandered to. That's really what identity politics is about. And by the way, I would argue that Trump's socialist smears against Biden worked. We're probably going to see a depressed Cuban vote for Biden once more voter analysis comes out.

    In any case: You mention that 90% of black people vote for the Democrats. I am not convinced. I would say that 90% of black people asked say they vote for Biden which is not the same as 90% of black voters actually voting for democrats all the way down the ballot.
    I don't see what distinction that makes in regards to my point.

  10. #1030
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    The issue with assuming that Americans are center-right, is the same as with any self-identification poll. As the full article of the stated poll shows, even among Republicans, 4% self-identify as liberals. To say nothing of the rather vague label "moderate" and what it actually means, and this is reflected in polling across issues. Americans are repeatedly voicing support for liberal ideas, even as they identify as "Moderate" or "Conservative".
    Recently, Americans have repeatedly and overwhelmingly, rejected leftist presidential candidates (Sanders and Warren were routed by a frail, triangulating establishmentarian).

    Universal healthcare, free higher education, a reduction in carbon emissions etc. lose their appeal when understood in the context of increased taxation, the loss of private insurance or prohibitions the sale of petrol motors. The prospect of the state spending tens of trillions of dollars nationalizing the health sectors and the energy industry is unpalatable to most voters.

    The race issue is certainly important to a lot of people of color. Hence why Democrats consistently poll highly among minorities. Look at Clinton vs Obama Black turnout. Certainly, and I will be the first one to stress the point, the race thing alone isn't responsible for why Hillary's Black turnout was lower, but it was definitely a factor. The allure of electing a Black president is going to be strong among Black communities, even if they don't admit it.

    People want to be pandered to. That's really what identity politics is about. And by the way, I would argue that Trump's socialist smears against Biden worked. We're probably going to see a depressed Cuban vote for Biden once more voter analysis comes out.
    An acknowledgement that identity-conscious social justice polices are a product of clientelism rather than truth or principle should not have taken this long.

  11. #1031

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Recently, Americans have repeatedly and overwhelmingly, rejected leftist presidential candidates (Sanders and Warren were routed by a frail, triangulating establishmentarian).
    Rejection of "leftist" candidates does not indicate a center-right bias. As much as progressives want to whine about "neoliberal Joe&Bama", fact is, Joe Biden ran on one of the most progressive platforms ever embraced by the Democratic party. Whether he lives up to that promise is an entire matter entirely.

    Universal healthcare, free higher education, a reduction in carbon emissions etc. lose their appeal when understood in the context of increased taxation, the loss of private insurance or prohibitions the sale of petrol motors. The prospect of the state spending tens of trillions of dollars nationalizing the health sectors and the energy industry is unpalatable to most voters.
    Majority of voters cannot be expected to understand the ramifications of higher government spending or national health insurance. Hence why representatives are elected to make such decisions for them. Should everything be left to a popular vote, nothing would get done. Polling, has repeatedly shown that the public's opinion on the ACA has evolved over time in both directions. Which is unsurprising, scare enough voters into believing anything is "radical" and "moderates" will want to look the other way.

    An acknowledgement that identity-conscious social justice polices are a product of clientelism rather than truth or principle should not have taken this long.
    The obsession over identity politics should not have occurred at all.

  12. #1032
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Is Biden a moderate, a centrist, or a leftist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
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  13. #1033

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Is Biden a moderate, a centrist, or a leftist?
    That depends on who you ask.

  14. #1034

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    "Antiracism Icon Robin DiAngelo Paid More Than Black Woman for Same JobDiAngelo rakes in 70 percent more for University of Wisconsin speaking gig"

    "Robin DiAngelo raked in $12,750 for a speaking gig last month at the University of Wisconsin"
    "University of Wisconsin-Madison's Division of Diversity, Equity, and Educational Achievement paid Channing Brown just $7,500 for her keynote address"
    "DiAngelo has made her name demanding that white people stop avoiding difficult conversations, she did not respond to multiple requests for comment"
    https://freebeacon.com/culture/antir...-for-same-job/

  15. #1035
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    "Antiracism Icon Robin DiAngelo Paid More Than Black Woman for Same JobDiAngelo rakes in 70 percent more for University of Wisconsin speaking gig"

    "Robin DiAngelo raked in $12,750 for a speaking gig last month at the University of Wisconsin"
    "University of Wisconsin-Madison's Division of Diversity, Equity, and Educational Achievement paid Channing Brown just $7,500 for her keynote address"
    "DiAngelo has made her name demanding that white people stop avoiding difficult conversations, she did not respond to multiple requests for comment"
    https://freebeacon.com/culture/antir...-for-same-job/
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  16. #1036
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    It's all a big grift, a trend, and intellectually vapid nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    butthole Erdogan

  17. #1037

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Penguin Random House is going to publish a new Jordan Peterson book.
    Employees of the publisher are very upset:

    "employees confronted management... at an emotional town hall Monday"

    Ah, poor wittle fee-fees all hurt.

    "“He is an icon of hate speech and transphobia and the fact that he’s an icon of white supremacy, regardless of the content of his book, I’m not proud to work for a company that publishes him,” a junior employee who is a member of the LGBTQ community and who attended the town hall told VICE World News"

    Oh noes, big bad evil man scaring pwecious wittle snowflakes.

    Stand up straight, square your shoulders and quit.

    "Another employee said “people were crying in the meeting about how Jordan Peterson has affected their lives.” They said one co-worker discussed how Peterson had radicalized their father and another talked about how publishing the book will negatively affect their non-binary friend."

    Let me guess, daddies radicalization consisted of telling wittle special snowflake to 'clean your room'. Something he had never done even when you were not living in the basement.
    Just imagine what it will be like when daddy decides to charge rent...

    Wipe your snot-nose and pull up your big-boy pants.

    "“I feel it was deliberately hidden and dropped on us once it was too late to change course,” said the junior employee who is a member of the LGBTQ community. The employee said workers would have otherwise considered a walkout"

    Would have thrown yourselves down and wailed and screamed and pounded tiny fists and feet on the floor.

    What the employer should do: drop a box of diapers for the whiny little leftists, and tell them to either get to work, or get out.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5bv...-peterson-book
    Last edited by Infidel144; November 26, 2020 at 01:39 PM.

  18. #1038
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    I think it should be asked: who the heck is Jordan Peterson?

    But the telling thing is "regardless of the content of his new book..." What? Why the hell should the publishing house care about the personal opinions of the author?
    That's one of main reasons Sanders' workplace democracy is idiotic. "Let's ask how popular this author, not his books, the person, is with the people that work here!" And "Mr Alfred from HR is very concerned. The stockholders and the board are fine, but Mr Alfred mentions a janitor and two cleaning ladies, as well as a typist and two secretaries that are opposed to the man while never having read his books."
    That would make for a sound company policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    What the employer should do: drop a box of diapers for the whiny little leftists, and tell them to either get to work, or get out.
    With unemployment below 5-6% you cannot do that. You will simply not find people to replace them with.
    And unemployment will drop to 5-6% or less in a few months once vaccination is well underway.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 26, 2020 at 10:17 PM.
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  19. #1039
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Wait, you've never heard of Lobster Dad? This is a rare occasion for me.

    Where do you begin? Jordan Peterson is ... a clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Toronto. Other than normal boring research, he has also written a self-help book in 2018 and a book in 1999 about his theories for how humans find meaning in their lives - particularly in light of social conflicts. I think this new book is a sequel to the self-help one.

    The only reason why we are talking about him is because in 2016 he started publicly criticizing Bill C-16, which extended gender identity and gender expression to the list of prohibited discriminations in the Canadian Human Rights Act. Basically, Bill C-16 outlawed discrimination against trans people within the federal jurisdiction. There was a matching provision in the criminal code that prohibited advocating for the genocide of trans people and allow increased sentences in criminal acts where transphobia is a factor. Peterson basically made a big huff that this was destroying free speech and was effectively criminalizing the act of using the wrong pronoun. Anyone who keeps up with conservative media would know that exactly zero people have been charged with any such thing, and that really isn't even how the bill even works.

    Since then, he has been laying his thoughts on political culture in North America every so often, and became a bit of darling for the little "I'm like a conservative, but smart" movement thing we have going over here. He makes a heavy emphasis on free speech being wiped out by political correctness and a political movement that he calls "post-modern neo-Marxism" is destroying the West. I think that that entire last sentence makes no sense and is very mistaken, but that's what he says. Classic "universities brainwash freshmen with their sjw intro to humanities classes" schtick.

    I guess it would be charitable to call him a part of the "intellectual dark web". I think his books aren't bad, but honestly I find his politics flimsy, incoherent, and sometimes at odds with his own books. One of my favorite exchanges he had in a news interview with Cathy Newman was that he said that the idea that gender hierarchies are a result of western patriarchy is wrong because there are hierarchies in the natural world, such as lobsters. It's just a total non-sequitur and strawman of such epic proportions that I have hard time taking him seriously. And now Lobster Dad is trying to write another self-help book to teach me "values" and "give me a purpose in life"? Unbelievable.

    While it's unfortunate that he made his start by arguing that outlawing transphobia is eroding civilization and free speech, my first thought was that the employees seem to be overreacting. To be fair to them, I'm never going to be in their shoes. I don't really keep up with everything he says, just the general ideas, but he strikes me as someone who is basically disdainful and not hateful. That may just be because he talks in a way that avoids being pinned down on the specifics, so it's easy to "misinterpret" him when you are trying to figure what he's getting at with his usual motte-and-bailey arguments.

    When he gets fired up, Lobster Dad sounds a little bit like Kermit the Frog, which is a little funny, I guess.
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  20. #1040
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Peterson is a credentialed scholar who pushes back against mythologies like critical theory, Marxism and postmodernism. Among academics that makes him a rarity and therefore a threat (hence the wailing and gnashing of teeth).

    These latest deplatforming attempts serve only to prove him right. If it wasn't already painfully obvious, the radicals and their liberal enablers really do want to limit the breadth of acceptable speech. Hitherto, and somewhat fortuitously, they’ve succeeded only in publicising his work.

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