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Thread: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

  1. #701
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else. Right now it's leaning heavily towards the left, so it's not so bad, but one day it will inevitably shift and the same mechanisms will be used by the right. That's really scary.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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  2. #702

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else. Right now it's leaning heavily towards the left, so it's not so bad, but one day it will inevitably shift and the same mechanisms will be used by the right. That's really scary.
    The left has killed more people in the last 100 years than the right, and that's including Hitler as right.

    The Left is not a friendly end game.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  3. #703
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    It's not friendly in the early or mid game either!

  4. #704

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    The problem is that after "long march" of marxists to various positions of power in Western nations, they are under impression that their dominating position in these fields is forever. They may be up for a harsh reckoning with reality.

  5. #705
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    I highly doubt that the conservative government which iirc put this law in place had any marxists.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  6. #706
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    The left has killed more people in the last 100 years than the right, and that's including Hitler as right.

    The Left is not a friendly end game.
    True, but that's not the end-game by any stretch of the imagination for the left, those atrocities were a means to an end (ie. some form of equality). While right wing atrocities were in themselves goals (ie cleansing nations as part of establishing "true" sovereignty).
    In my personal opinion, in the choice between those two evils: the latter frightens me more. There is something more deliberate and evil inherent in the goal itself being atrocities, while the evils inherent in the left are more like side-effects. Not forgivable by any means, but more understandable. Perhaps right wing thought patterns are simply more alien to me and therefore seem less human, but that's how I see it.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  7. #707
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    True, but that's not the end-game by any stretch of the imagination for the left, those atrocities were a means to an end (ie. some form of equality).
    That's not really a friendly endgame. (I mean if you are talking about something like the classical commie equality thing.)

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    True, but that's not the end-game by any stretch of the imagination for the left, those atrocities were a means to an end (ie. some form of equality). While right wing atrocities were in themselves goals (ie cleansing nations as part of establishing "true" sovereignty).
    In my personal opinion, in the choice between those two evils: the latter frightens me more. There is something more deliberate and evil inherent in the goal itself being atrocities, while the evils inherent in the left are more like side-effects. Not forgivable by any means, but more understandable. Perhaps right wing thought patterns are simply more alien to me and therefore seem less human, but that's how I see it.
    I have to assume that people dying in the Gulags didn't find it comforting that their incarceration in death-camps was a side-effect.

    Also, about the end-goal, I also disagree.
    Nationalists did what they did for national purity and more living space and a class-based society with race being important part of that class. The massacres and genocides were a side-effect of that.
    Communists did what they did for equality and to bring forth a class-less society. The massacres and genocides were a side-effect of that.

    But those "side-effects" have left countless millions of people dead. It's not just Stalin and Hitler. Rwanda, Khmer Rouge come to mind.
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  9. #709

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    True, but that's not the end-game by any stretch of the imagination for the left, those atrocities were a means to an end (ie. some form of equality). While right wing atrocities were in themselves goals (ie cleansing nations as part of establishing "true" sovereignty).
    In my personal opinion, in the choice between those two evils: the latter frightens me more. There is something more deliberate and evil inherent in the goal itself being atrocities, while the evils inherent in the left are more like side-effects. Not forgivable by any means, but more understandable. Perhaps right wing thought patterns are simply more alien to me and therefore seem less human, but that's how I see it.
    Both left and right didn't have atrocities as part of end-game, but rather a mean to an end. Right is more "scary", because left's atrocities are denied and/or ignored by media and academia, which coincidentally happen to be controlled by fanatical leftists who abuse their positions to spread and justify their ideology.
    That also applies to atrocities committed as means to an end of liberal democracy, from horrors of French Revolution to modern-day "exportation of democracy" overseas. Honestly, I find the latter the most dangerous, simply because there is something inhuman in the way people who defend globalist liberalism think.

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest.
    Robert Conquest, author of the "Great Terror" and "Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror Famine", once said Nazism just smelled more evil.
    It's crystal clear that the most important difference between Nazi and Stalinist totalitarian ideology lies in the degree of universality involved. In Nazi Germany full terror was directed against people with certain common characteristics which were independent of their specific behaviour: the Jews.
    Jews did not "dissent" by being Jews, it was not an attribute that they could alter through a change of behaviour (Terrorism, Rosemary H. T. O'Kane, page 41)
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #711

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Robert Conquest, author of the "Great Terror" and "Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror Famine", once said Nazism just smelled more evil.
    It's crystal clear that the most important difference between Nazi and Stalinist totalitarian ideology lies in the degree of universality involved. In Nazi Germany full terror was directed against people with certain common characteristics which were independent of their specific behaviour: the Jews.
    Jews did not "dissent" by being Jews, it was not an attribute that they could alter through a change of behaviour (Terrorism, Rosemary H. T. O'Kane, page 41)
    What Lenin and Trotsky did to certain classes of Russian society wasn't in any way different form German policies in regards to the Jews. Not surprisingly, with current Western academia being infested by socialist sympathizers, these atrocities are trivialized and outright ignored.

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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    I don't know this black guy, but this is a video that USA citizens should watch again and again.

    How to End White Privilege
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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  13. #713
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    What Lenin and Trotsky did to certain classes of Russian society wasn't in any way different form German policies in regards to the Jews. Not surprisingly, with current Western academia being infested by socialist sympathizers, these atrocities are trivialized and outright ignored.
    This inappropriate type of comparison diminishes and trivializes the Holocaust.
    Well, we have functioning brains, that's the main reason why the academia is infested by those pesky socialists. (j/k). You clearly don't know who Robert Conquest is. The unsuspected R.Conquest wrote more than a dozen books on the Soviet Union. No, these atrocities are not trivialized, read his books. There can be no doubt as to the crimes of murderous oppression of the Soviet regime inside the Soviet empire. BUT, to equate the Nazi's genocidal policies, -the Holocaust- with other murderous/oppressive actions in the USSR and around the world, relativizes the genocide of the Jews perpetrated by the evil Nazi regime.

    Yehuda Bauer | www.yadvashem.org is an internationally renowned Holocaust scholar, Professor Emeritus of History and Holocaust Studies at the Avraham Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Academic Advisor to Yad Vashem. This man is another example of a brilliant brain infesting the academia. He writes-read the full article- On Comparisons between Nazi Germany and the Soviet

    ....However, to compare this with the murder of many millions of Europeans by the Nazi regime, and especially with the state-planned genocide of the Jews (Holocaust) in the context of Nazi crimes generally no doubt as to make the acceptance of the comparison easier - is a distortion of history.
    .... The two regimes were both totalitarian, and yet quite different. The greater threat to all of humanity was Nazi Germany, and it was the Soviet Army that liberated Eastern Europe, was the central force that defeated Nazi Germany, and thus saved Europe and the world from the Nazi nightmare.
    It also implies that the war was initiated by both regimes equally, and that they therefore bear equal responsibility for the death of some 35 million people in Europe alone (if one adds the war in Asia, the total is, according to a number of historians, about 55 million). This is a total perversion of history. In the summer of 1939, Stalin would have sold not only his own mother, but all Russian mothers and grandmothers, for an assurance that Germany would not attack the USSR
    World War II was started by Nazi Germany, not the Soviet Union, and the responsibility of the 35 million dead in Europe, 29 million of them non-Jews, is that of Nazi Germany, not Stalin. To commemorate victims equally is a distortion.

    There is more to it even than that. Communism was a deviation from the ideals of the French Revolution which Marx had admired. Marxism was, from the outset, a contradictory ideology, because it aspired to equality and justice, even to democracy, on the one hand, and from the outset it also included clearly anti-democratic elements, even genocidal ones (articles by Marx and Engels in 1848/9, again in 1863, and the correspondence between them, talked about the elimination of the Czechs, Slovenes, and others, as so-called non-historic nations). The democratic trend came into its own with the development of Marxist social-democratic parties in Central and Western Europe, while the anti-democratic and dictatorial elements became the ideology of the groups out of which communism developed.

    The USSR, even under Stalin, had these contradictory elements in its basic make-up. The ideal was still the realization of libertarian principles, and the abolition of the State, as Lenin wrote; this can be seen, for instance, in the 1936 Stalin Constitution, a prime example of a wonderfully democratic program. The reality was the exact opposite: oppression, terror, corruption, murder, torture.

    But very large numbers of Soviet citizens actually believed in the quasi-liberal propaganda, and I think it was, ultimately, the internal contradictions that became the basis for the collapse of the regime. The economic inefficiency, the corruption, and the terror were, in the final analysis, the result of the fact that there was no consistent basis for the communist regime. With the Nazis it was completely different. There, there was a terrible consistency between a racist, terrorist, antisemitic ideology and the way the society was being built. There were no contradictions: world control by war and conquest, and genocidal programs, were the hallmark of the regime. Without military defeat, the Hitler regime would not have disappeared; it would never have collapsed on its own. The Soviet regime did. It is therefore not that difficult to see how the Soviets in the end were able to collaborate with the West in the defeat of Nazi Germany.

    One certainly should remember the victims of the Soviet regime, and there is every justification for designating special memorials and events to do so. But to put the two regimes on the same level and commemorating the different crimes on the same occasion is totally unacceptable.
    Book, The Holocaust in Historical Perspective Yehuda Bauer

    page 42,
    The basic aim of Hitler was always the struggle against the Jews. To befog this issue is to misunderstand the whole historical process...Irving denies the Nazi war guilt. Fest simply ignores the central problems and concentrates on marginal issues. Geoffrey Barraclough, one of the greatest living historians, goes a step further. To him, the whole problem of the Nazi regime is secondary. Communism is important, the Third World is central. Nazism was a regrettable, brief episode, not really worth wasting much time on.This is of course the final absurdity. You ignore the dozens of millions of dead of dozens of nations, you ignore totally the vast destruction of cultural values and heritages, you ignore completely the totalitarian structure that spawned all this and the possible paradigmatic quality of Nazism. You can then ignore the Holocaust, or brush it aside as a footnote....Our problem lies in the fact that the revisionist intellectuals, from A. J. P. Taylor through Barraclough, Werner Maser, and Joachim Fest in Germany, and the many others who lately seem to be jumping onto this particular bandwagon, have created the preconditions for a rehabilitation of Nazism and have thereby paved the way for a linkup between revisionist history and neo-Nazi pseudoscientific gutter history.

    ...In February 1941 the Dutch workers, led by their Socialist and Communist leadership, declared a general strike in support of the Jews...Unlike the Belgians and the Dutch, many people in France favored collaboration with the German occupants.
    From Bauer with "love", for our far right white Christian crusaders, I quote,

    France is, of course, a predominantly Catholic country, and Petain wanted to be sure that his anti-Jewish actions would not be condemned by the Vatican...

    The Communists had their own aid organizations and they were effective in protecting their Jewish members from the worst effects of the anti-Jewish decrees.A roof organization of over twenty social agencies was founded at Nimes in November 1940 to help Jews interned in French concentration camps in the unoccupied zone...

    The princes of the church ranged from Saliege in Toulouse to the Papal Nuncio at Bratislava who, when asked by Rabbi Weissmandel whether the church should not intervene to save at least the innocent blood of Jewish children, answered, “Es gibt kein unschuldiges jüdisches Kinderblut, jedes jüdische Blut ist schuldig.” (“There is no innocent Jewish children’s blood, all Jewish blood is guilty.”For the Communists, there was no Jewish problem at all.

    In the forests, convinced Communists often fought against overt antisemitism in their units.Belgian and French Communists helped to hide Jews from the eyes of the Nazis...on the whole, left-wing political groups were, with some exceptions, inclined to help Jewish victims of Nazism....The Soviet Union was fighting the Nazi invader, who was murdering Jews, amongst other things.
    Obviously, anything the U.S.S.R. did to defeat the Nazis was favorable to the survival of Jews. Jews fled into the Soviet interior, or tried to, when the Nazis came....There was, I think, no active antisemitism involved in the Russian official attitude.
    ...the most basic common denominator was quite simply that the Jewish problem, the murder of a whole people, just did not appear important enough to cause the Western Allies to take drastic steps to remedy the situation.
    The fact of the matter was that the Jews, to misquote Stalin in another context, did not have any political battalions that counted.

    HH, I think you heartedly agree with the German far-right How Germany's Far Right Is Changing Holocaust Education ...

    --Edit,
    In two days' time, leaders from 40 different countries will meet in Jerusalem
    The Fifth World Holocaust Forum 2020 | www.yadvashem.org

    Why not a "world forum" against Soviet atrocities, HH? can you see the difference?
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 21, 2020 at 02:42 PM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  14. #714

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    This inappropriate type of comparison diminishes and trivializes the Holocaust.
    Well, we have functioning brains, that's the main reason why the academia is infested by those pesky socialists. (j/k). You clearly don't know who Robert Conquest is. The unsuspected R.Conquest wrote more than a dozen books on the Soviet Union. No, these atrocities are not trivialized, read his books. There can be no doubt as to the crimes of murderous oppression of the Soviet regime inside the Soviet empire. BUT, to equate the Nazi's genocidal policies, -the Holocaust- with other murderous/oppressive actions in the USSR and around the world, relativizes the genocide of the Jews perpetrated by the evil Nazi regime.
    I dare to say that such comparison diminishes communist crimes. Just because they murdered by taking people's livelihood by force and then letting them starve or by sending them to work camps instead of gas and bullet, and because they targeted social class instead of ethnicity does not make their crimes any lesser. Communism killed several times more people than Nazism.

    Like the rock that killed dinosaurs, Holocaust just has best PR. But worse things happened, people just don't know that much about them.

  15. #715

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Oh, this will be good. So, why does the Holocaust have the best PR?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  16. #716

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    This inappropriate type of comparison diminishes and trivializes the Holocaust.
    Well, we have functioning brains, that's the main reason why the academia is infested by those pesky socialists. (j/k). You clearly don't know who Robert Conquest is. The unsuspected R.Conquest wrote more than a dozen books on the Soviet Union. No, these atrocities are not trivialized, read his books. There can be no doubt as to the crimes of murderous oppression of the Soviet regime inside the Soviet empire. BUT, to equate the Nazi's genocidal policies, -the Holocaust- with other murderous/oppressive actions in the USSR and around the world, relativizes the genocide of the Jews perpetrated by the evil Nazi regime.
    Sounds like an attempt to diminish and trivialize Red Terror and other crimes committed by USSR government against ethnic Russians and other people of Russia and Eastern Europe. The scale of these atrocities alone far surpasses the scale of Holocaust. Which in itself is surpassed by atrocities committed in China under Mao.

  17. #717
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Sounds like an attempt to diminish and trivialize Red Terror and other crimes committed by USSR government.
    Sounds like an attempt to held that communism was a Jewish conspiracy. Poor Yehuda Bauer, dared to put the Holocaust in historical perspective, "struggling" with making comparisons between Stalin and Hitler.
    HH, don't forget to mention that Jews were put in high positions in Poland after WW2 by Stalin, don't forget to mention that many communist Jews collaborated with Stalin in shipping innocent Poles to Soviet Gulag concentration camps. I heard from the Times of Israel that suspected US neo-Nazis are compiling names of Jews on Telegram app, including both prominent and lesser known Jewish people who have criticized white supremacism. Is that true?
    I know, the uniqueness of the Holocaust irritates you greatly.The question of the Holocaust's uniqueness - Open Research.

    "We are haunted by the Holocaust precisely because there is reason to say it is unique" Raimond Gaita, "Genocide and the Holocaust" in A Common Humanity (London: Routledge, 2000), p. 149.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 22, 2020 at 11:20 AM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  18. #718

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    But alhoon, what about the Holodomor? What about all the people Stalin killed? Also, aren't Nazis left wing?

  19. #719
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    But alhoon, what about the Holodomor? What about all the people Stalin killed? Also, aren't Nazis left wing?
    ehh... what?
    I am not really getting what you're trying to say here while I can see you are sarcastic.

    But please, enough with the leftwing Nazis. Nazis were killing communists on sight more or less and they got in power by getting anything beyond moderate left banned from the elections after the fire. They are very traditional far-right.
    Also, Stalin is directly responsible for countless deaths.
    What about the Holocaust? Yet it was horrible. No, Leftwings, let alone ultraprogressives which this thread is about had nothing to do with it.
    For the record, Stalin was not a progressive. Being leftwing doesn't automatically make you progressive although most progressives are leftwings and many leftwings are progressives.
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  20. #720

    Default Re: The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    ehh... what?
    I am not really getting what you're trying to say here while I can see you are sarcastic.

    But please, enough with the leftwing Nazis. Nazis were killing communists on sight more or less and they got in power by getting anything beyond moderate left banned from the elections after the fire. They are very traditional far-right.
    Also, Stalin is directly responsible for countless deaths.
    What about the Holocaust? Yet it was horrible. No, Leftwings, let alone ultraprogressives which this thread is about had nothing to do with it.
    For the record, Stalin was not a progressive. Being leftwing doesn't automatically make you progressive although most progressives are leftwings and many leftwings are progressives.
    I'm a little tired of discussions of death counts and pissing contests between the left and right. Let me put it this way, I'm far less threatened by "thought police" today, than I am at a chance of being deported or stopped at the border. Iranian Americans were recently detained at the border. and various ID laws are constantly on the works in Southern States that target Hispanics and Blacks. On the other hand, despite "social justice" being an explicit goal of local governments in Washington State, I have never seen HR fire somebody for "wrongthink" unless it was related to gross job incompetence. And that's with me personally knowing HR and other managerial staff. And yes, some of them are feminists of the worst type.

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