The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

[fkizz]

I can talk extensively about the subject. In fact, I devoted a lot of time to the intensive study of history of the Portuguese slave trade in West Africa.

I apreciate the effort but that was a total miss on what I said. I said slave market was booming before European Powers were even minimally relevant. Portugal is European, and therefore not included in the timeframe brought up in the post you quoted.

I said before, not after.

What I mean is what you describe had already been happening even before Portugal and the European Powers joined the scene. Arabs did a lot of slave trade as well, like the Africans, Greeks, Romans, Berbers and whatever tribe else not mentioned here.

Found in Ancient World too. You condemn one nation or ethnicity, you literally condemn them all. Romans and Arabs and Berbers and other more to the Subsaharan Africans took prisioners of war as slaves to either use or sell them later. Slave market knew no color or race, anyone could be caught in it.

There's this ideological movement trying to link slavery with "West". In fact West biggest economic revolution boom was Industrial Revolution that ironically to that narrative, happened after the abolition of slavery. (or at least in close timeframe).

Ottoman Empire often took European woman (and men) as slaves.
The whole Janissary system involved kidnaping (most of the cases) European Christian kids to raise them as Muslim later. There's also Barbary Pirates.

However from such point of view it would be naive to morally attack them, given that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Arabs took other defeated Arabs as Slaves and sold them, Berbers took defeated Berbers from other tribes and sold them, Subsaharan Africans took defeated Africans from other tribes as slaves, same for Greeks in their city-state quarrels, same for Romans with their Civil Wars and so on.

And ofc, we still have slave market in XXI century in Lybia as we speak, and meanwhile the "anti-slavery people" do nothing about that and basically, have the one chance in their lifetimes to interveine in the injustice and correct it, yet do nothing, why would that be?

Now of course slavery is an abominable thing, but it's also an area of people living in glass houses throwing stones at each other, if one intends to condemn a particular nation or ethnicity.

[RandomPerson2000]

And ofc, we still have slave market in XXI century in Lybia as we speak, and meanwhile the "anti-slavery people" do nothing about that and basically, have the one chance in their lifetimes to interveine in the injustice and correct it, yet do nothing, why would that be?

There are still tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of slaves in countries such as Niger and Mauritania, the former only criminalised in 2003 while the latter abolished slavery as late as 1981 and only made it illegal in 2007.

[Basil II the B.S]

And again,don't mix apples and oranges. Indeed, the earliest use of the name "Niger" for the river is by Leo Africanus.
But by the second half of the 15th century, the term "Negro" was synonymous with "slave" across Iberia, and shortly after across Europe. Have you read the atlantic context of racial slavery, 1492-1629 ?

Slavery has existed for thousands of years, and has been commonly place in many societies/cultures, but the concepts of "race" and "racism" are inventions that arose /became part of the dominant ideology of societies in the context of the African slave trade the 1500s and 1600s. Slavery and racism were endemic in the European colonies from the 16th century on.
The origin of race /racism in the 17th century became a basis for categories of subordination and hegemony; the European colonists and slave traders of the 17th century were already sure that there were genetic, and biological differences that constituted whites as superior beings to blacks. The social, moral and intellectual justifications for the slave trade derived from race and colour prejudices in existence in Europe even before 1600.
As an example, let's keep in mind Las Casas-Sepulveda debate in 1550. According to Sepulveda, the Indians were irrational beings whose inherently inferior condition immediately made them slaves by nature; a barbarian race whose natural, inferior condition entitled the Spaniards to wage war on them.
Father António Vieira, Jesuit priest, diplomat and member of the Royal Council to the King of Portugal was not an abolitionist - and yet he found words to denounce racism: "Can there be a greater want of understanding, or greater error in judgment between men and men than for me to think that I must be your master because I was born farther away from the sun, and you must be my slave because you were born nearer to it?"
The post slavery evolution of the scientific racism is a modern development.

Do you have evidence of the bolded part? Because master-slave relationship in a feudal context is not equivalent to scientific racism.

[conon394]

Do you have evidence of the bolded part? Because master-slave relationship in a feudal context is not equivalent to scientific racism.

No what he means is you can find generally in Europe circa the mid 1500s examples of black Africans being categorized as distinctly different and inferior to whites and so appropriate for a distinct kind of slavery, permanent and particularly based on skin color. - not serfdom, not bonded labor, not even prison labor.

[Basil II the B.S]

You can find slaves yes. You can also find people who work in slavery markets referring to blacks as slaves because in their microcosm, those are the same thing. You can find the same people seeing blacks as distinct simply because of their different group, but that'd be the same for any ethnic group. I'm asking for a specific racial theory to justify slavery, to back the claim that the reason behind slavery was racism.

edit: and back to what I was saying pages ago, the problem with supranational technocracy is irresponsibility for incompetence.
Jeroen Dijsselbloem, whom some might remember for his comical ineptitude during the Greek crisis, is likely to be the next IMF chief.
https://twitter.com/EuroBriefing/sta...44536319840256


This is exactly why we need to move to post-liberalism. Supranational governance is a catastrophe. The rationalization to insulate ''experts'' from political responsibility is the primary reason why things are going bad and will keep going bad. Expertise is not immune from errors. Those who make mistakes must pay. Instead, we promote them and reward them.

I'm not even mad at this point. This kind of appointments simply prove my point that we need to dismantle technocratic institutions. It's easy evidence for voters and political campaigning.

[Basil II the B.S]

The House of Representatives on Wednesday voted to set aside a resolution by Rep. Al Green, D-Texas, to introduce article of impeachment against President Trump – the third time the Houston-area lawmaker has taken a shot at impeaching the president, but the first since Democrats regained control of the House.
Lawmakers voted 332-95 to table Green’s resolution, which was widely opposed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and other top Democrats worried that the measure would force vulnerable swing-district lawmakers into peril ahead of the 2020 elections. The bipartisan vote shelved any chance of bringing forth articles of impeachment against Trump in the near future.
"The president has committed an impeachable offense," Green said on the House floor earlier on Wednesday. "Yesterday, we condemned him for that. Today is our opportunity to punish him."
137 Democrats voted in favor of tabling the resolution compared to just 95 who voted against shelving it. Only one lawmaker, Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., voted present.
Trump tweeted afterward, "The United States House of Representatives has just overwhelmingly voted to kill the Resolution on Impeachment, 332-95-1. This is perhaps the most ridiculous and time consuming project I have ever had to work on."


Green later denied he was playing into the president's hands. "The president, at some point, will be impeached... people are starting to pay attention," the congressman said.
Instead of moving ahead with articles of impeachment, most Democrats have appeared to prefer waiting to see if a stronger case for removal could be developed that would win broader public support, and they're eagerly awaiting next week's scheduled testimony to two House committees by former Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
"With all due respect in the world for him, we have six committees that are working on following the facts in terms of any abuse of power, obstruction of justice and the rest that the president may have engaged in," Pelosi said. "That is the serious path that we're on."


Recent polling has shown majorities opposed impeachment. Even if the House voted to impeach Trump, which would amount to filing formal charges, the Republican-run Senate would be unlikely to remove him from office.
The showdown over Green's resolution also came amid tensions between Pelosi and the same four progressive congresswomen of color whom Trump singled out in a tweet and implored them to "go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done." All four of the women Trump apparently singled out – Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rashida Tlaib of Michigan and Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts – are American citizens and three of the four were born in the United States.
The four have waged an increasingly personal clash with Pelosi over how assertively the House should try restraining Trump's ability to curb immigration. But, if anything, Trump's tweets may have eased some of that tension, with Pelosi telling Democrats at a closed-door meeting Tuesday, "We are offended by what he said about our sisters," according to an aide who described the private meeting to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.

The House late Tuesday voted to condemn Trump’s comments after a bizarre floor fight when Pelosi was found to have violated a House rule over decorum.
Despite a lobbying effort by Trump and party leaders for a unified GOP front, four Republicans voted to condemn his remarks: moderate Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania, Fred Upton of Michigan, Will Hurd of Texas and Susan Brooks of Indiana, who is retiring. Also backing the measure was Michigan's independent Rep. Justin Amash, who left the GOP this month after becoming the party's sole member of Congress to back a Trump impeachment inquiry.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hou...-impeach-trump

So, over 2 years of Russia blabbing just to end, ''overwhelming'' evidence by liberal media, certified by liberal intellectuals, it turns out that Democrats didn't have enough confidence to proceed with it because... of insufficient evidence.

Now, while it's good to see not everyone on that side has completely lost their mind, the same can't be said for the overwhelming majority of journalists and intellectuals, many of which are simply beyond recovery. At this point a good solution for society would be to force anyone who promtoes Russia-collusion related conspiracy theories to undergo psychiatric evaluation to see whether they suffer from schizophrenia or similar mental illnesses, because they are becoming a threat to social health and safety.

Feel free to discuss how to best handle the ''Russia Russia'' crowd in a democratic way.

-Similar threads merged. ~Abdülmecid I

[conon394]

Umm your take is a little off. The decision is political what is the point of impeachment without any chance of the senate moving on it. I think is rather the majority of democrats want to investigate first and build a case. Impeachment now would distract from that. I mean they have not even heard Mueller's testimony. I'm not sure what Green's point was.

[Basil II the B.S]

Green is a liberal retard. He's unable to make a point

[conon394]

Green is a liberal retard. He's unable to make a point

You really should get a thesaurus, your over use of the word retard does not add depth or a sense of scintillating insight to your posts.

[Basil II the B.S]

When I find something even more accurate and offensive to describe demented liberals like Green, you'll notice.

[The spartan]

When I find something even more accurate and offensive to describe demented liberals like Green, you'll notice.

Probably not.

[Gaidin]

It was tabled, not voted down. Somehow that was missing in all this.

[Aexodus]

If Trump really is guilty of collusion, then wouldn’t the Rep Senators blocking impeachment be a bad look for them and good for the dems?

[Gaidin]

If Trump really is guilty of collusion, then wouldn’t the Rep Senators blocking impeachment be a bad look for them and good for the dems?

Depending on the times Impeachment ranges from 33% to 66% politics and the Senators still worry about their voters and it comes down to just how utterly criminal the charges are. Namely, Johnson was not screwed, Clinton was not screwed(lol), but Nixon was utterly ed in the ass once the smoking gun of the recordings came out and the Senators and Representatives told him(hence his resignation). So...depending on the actual charges...it really comes down to both the sheer criminality, and the political necessity, and how it all adds up.

[irontaino]

It was tabled, not voted down. Somehow that was missing in all this.

Alternative facts

[Gaidin]

Alternative facts

Considering the House would've had to change their rules to bring it up again until after the election if it had actually been voted down...

[irontaino]

Considering the House would've had to change their rules to bring it up again until after the election if it had actually been voted down...

Yep, was just saying the OP is peddling alternative facts

[GROB]

Iam not a REP or DEM. All this is a political circus. The DEMS want TRUMP out of office, so they have a shoe in at the 2020 election. Nothing gets done. Are roads and infrastructure is getting worse. Whoever who is in power, the other party tries their damdest, to find and get dirt on the other party. I personally blame alot of this on the MEDIA. They are the biggest problem. And all the media outlets. The media is like a bunch of old ladies sitting around gossiping.

[conon394]

Iam not a REP or DEM. All this is a political circus. The DEMS want TRUMP out of office, so they have a shoe in at the 2020 election. Nothing gets done. Are roads and infrastructure is getting worse. Whoever who is in power, the other party tries their damdest, to find and get dirt on the other party. I personally blame alot of this on the MEDIA. They are the biggest problem. And all the media outlets. The media is like a bunch of old ladies sitting around gossiping.

"The DEMS want TRUMP out of office" Well that is sort of the point of being the party of the opposition. I not sure what your complaint is.

"Nothing Gets done" Well you really need to update your civics class. That is one of the feature of the US republic it not being a Parliamentary system. It is designed to be fairly slow moving and not really likely to change all that much in a situation where the President could not win the popular vote and the Congress is divided. But a lot has gotten done if you are Republican. Wealthy Republicans and business interests got a huge tax cut. If you are socially conservative republican or in favor of small government or less regulation, that Trump has pushed through tons of Federalist society judges along with the Republican senate all to the good for them. Trump has rolled back regulations again another Republican project. So see stuff done.

Infrastructure is a problem but fundamentally the Republicans will not address that with spending they could have when they controlled the congress but chose a tax cut. If you wanted infrastructure spending you should have voted Democrat in a narrow district.

Get dirt on the other party. how exactly do you mean that? You not going to whine about civility are you. Go back and read the news from any other time not including the post war US economic ascendancy combined with the cold war combined with everyone ignoring segregation... we are back to the old normal of the US.

[Love Mountain]

Iam not a REP or DEM. All this is a political circus. The DEMS want TRUMP out of office, so they have a shoe in at the 2020 election. Nothing gets done. Are roads and infrastructure is getting worse. Whoever who is in power, the other party tries their damdest, to find and get dirt on the other party. I personally blame alot of this on the MEDIA. They are the biggest problem. And all the media outlets. The media is like a bunch of old ladies sitting around gossiping.

Enlightened Centrism.

Wouldn't the "whites" have stopped being a majority long ago if irish and med europeans weren't counted as "white"?
Likewise, just count "hispanics" as white and the majority remains, possibly forever.

The term "White" is flawed in and of itself. The reality is, "Whites" themselves are a mixture of many different cultures and national backgrounds that can all be shoehorned under one label due to similarities in their social and cultural traits. Which is why racism is so ridiculous to begin with. It's based on nothing but color of one's skin.