The latest anti-liberal rant thread (get your daily dose here)

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

You can discredit BLM as marxist, soviet, chinese agents all day long.

It won't go way, as your anti-communistic campaign won't and don't solve the underlying social issues:

• Non-Hispanic American Indian or Alaska Native persons have a rate approximately 5 times that of non-Hispanic white persons,
• Non-Hispanic black persons have a rate approximately 5 times that of non-Hispanic white persons,
• Hispanic or Latino persons have a rate approximately 4 times that of non-Hispanic white persons

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...inorities.html

The US have a big problem with social and economical inequality, there is a huge gap between the rich and the poor and this gap is especially big between non whites and whites and as long you don't do anything to minimize this gap BLM won't go away.

[Coughdrop addict]

Q: How do you know someone on the right has no real argument?
A: They call whatever it is they are arguing against Marxist. "BLM is Marxist." or "Facemasks are Marxist." or when they were little "But Mom, bedtimes are Marxist."

Which as I said in another thread is very ironic because the right themselves have very Marxist views of things like the economy, immigration, and especially social justice; in that they think for anyone to gain someone else must lose. Treating Black Americans like first class citizens must mean White Americans are going to become second class. What helps "them" must hurt "us". It's why coming to a compromise with them is almost impossible, the idea of win/win is almost entirely foreign to them.

[Cyclops]

C...
They are Marxists, what do you expect them to do? They strongly dislike income inequality (with its good and its bad) and they have a ton of reasons to dislike racial discrimination and want a classless society. And they believe in revolutions - cultural in this case.
Do I agree with them? Mostly no but there is income inequality and very low social mobility.
Do I believe racism is as bad as BLM say it is? Not everywhere in USA. But USA is big. In some places, yes it is. And in the police.

I always used to think the "Zombie Communism" argument was a furphy, but I've actually seen it here in my home state where a lot of earnest and well meaning tree huggers (who were by political orientation not really very aligned, sort of oddball Fabians) had their party almost taken over by former Communists rushing their branches and stacking candidates. Suddenly the party of "save the koalas" started issuing lengthy diatribes against Israel and stating Feminism was incompatible with the capitalist state (very strange since the suffragettes were explicitly about the franchise and access to Parliament). This does make it easier for the entirety of Left movements to be painted as infiltrate by the KGB, because there is a faction sort of doing that.

That said Trumps conspiracy blurb is no more true than the "Orange Man is a Russian Spy" narrative that Trump's opponents pedalled for a while. The guy gets very unfair treatment, and I am no fan of him, but he's in a stupidity contest with the Democrats and he's been winning for a while. I for one am sick of him winning (so you see he was right when he said "you'll be sick of winning").

[alhoon]

That some of the founders are Marxists:
- Is well known, they admit it
- Doesn't mean BLM is a Marxist movement because some of the members are communists.

[Vanoi]

That some of the founders are Marxists:
- Is well known, they admit it
- Doesn't mean BLM is a Marxist movement because some of the members are communists.

Which of the three founders are Marxists?

[Infidel144]

Cullors says of herself and Garza “Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists.”
Go to about 7 minutes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[Lord Thesaurian]

See? No point in feigning debate/conversation when people just ignore things they don’t like as a debate tactic.

[Vanoi]

Cullors says of herself and Garza “Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists.”
Go to about 7 minutes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

So youtube? I've looked up the lives of all three founders and nothing indicates that any of them are Marxists or even communists or socialists. None of them are Communist party members and nothing on BLM's website indicates the founders were Marxists nor the movement itself.

See? No point in feigning debate/conversation when people just ignore things they don’t like as a debate tactic.

You ignore posts constantly in this thread and still have yet to prove movement is Marxist in nature.

[Infidel144]

See? No point in feigning debate/conversation when people just ignore things they don’t like as a debate tactic.

You called that. But it was expected.
It is amusing how I link to an interview with Cullors where she directly says that she and Graza are trained marxists (even going out of my way to point to the part where she says it so the viewer does not have to wade through the wub) and the response is to say 'I've seen nothing to indicate they are marxists'.

Have you been seeing the stuff where activists (and others) are complaining that BLM is being 'hijacked'?

[Vanoi]

You called that. But it was expected.
It is amusing how I link to an interview with Cullors where she directly says that she and Graza are trained marxists (even going out of my way to point to the part where she says it so the viewer does not have to wade through the wub) and the response is to say 'I've seen nothing to indicate they are marxists'.

Have you been seeing the stuff where activists (and others) are complaining that BLM is being 'hijacked'?

You got one founder at best being a Marxist with no reliable proof for the other two or the movement itself being Marxist.

I swear conservatives love to make giant leaps with the shoddiest of evidence.

[Infidel144]

You got one founder at best being a Marxist with no reliable proof for the other two or the movement itself being Marxist.

I swear conservatives love to make giant leaps with the shoddiest of evidence.

Wait, you asked which of the three founders are marxists, I linked to an interview where one says she and her partner are trained marxists, answering your question.
And then you categorically denied and dismissed it.

Are you now clearly admitting your denial and dismissal was ignorant, wrong, pathetic and stupid (but typical for leftists)?

[Vanoi]

Wait, you asked which of the three founders are marxists, I linked to an interview where one says she and her partner are trained marxists, answering your question.
And then you categorically denied and dismissed it.

Actually the only thing i said is that besides that youtube video there is not one shred of evidence indicating that any of them subscribe to Marxism in anyway. You ignnored because you know its true.

Are you now clearly admitting your denial and dismissal was ignorant, wrong, pathetic and stupid (but typical for leftists)?

i love mental gymnastics you use to try and force claims on people when they have done no such thing. Poor debating as usual from you.

Are you going to address my post at all?

[Infidel144]

Actually the only thing i said is that besides that youtube video there is not one shred of evidence indicating that any of them subscribe to Marxism in anyway. You ignnored because you know its true.

You did not say 'besides that youtube video'. You said "So youtube?" Dismissing it.
You then said:
"I've looked up the lives of all three founders and nothing indicates that any of them are Marxists."
Denying the fact that one of them said she and her partner are trained marxists.
Thus you both denied and dismissed it.

i love mental gymnastics you use to try and force claims on people when they have done no such thing. Poor debating as usual from you.

So, you are not going to admit you stupidly and with willful ignorance denied and dismissed the answer to your question: "Which of the three founders are Marxists?".
That answer being one of the co-founders says she and her partner are trained marxists (and oddly enough you are intimating that she is lying about her friend).

Are you going to address my post at all?

I did address your post. I provided video of Cullors saying she and Garza are trained marxists.
You denied and dismissed it.

=============

I wonder what Cullor's apologia for Marx's racism would be (or if she is ignorant of it).
Probably the denial and dismissal typical of the lazy lying left.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Have you been seeing the stuff where activists (and others) are complaining that BLM is being 'hijacked'?

No I hadn’t. Tell me more.

Don’t get dragged into the rest though. Safe to say you can assume you’re on the “right” side when those with whom you disagree can only lie/troll in response. It’s not even as if BLM or its founders hide their beliefs and principles. There are multiple cited interviews discussed in detail. The facts are what they are. That’s either enough or it never will be. The danger is this, but there’s little you can personally do about it, unfortunately.

The lesson seems highly relevant today. “When you’re dragged along into something you don’t really believe yourself—because otherwise you are identified with those evil people, and your primary identity is being a ‘good guy,’ not like those people—you will wind up supporting things you know to be wrong. And unless there is some moral force that will stop it, the slide will accelerate.”


https://www.wsj.com/articles/violent...ia-11591400422

[Knight of Heaven]

You haven't posted one shred of evidence showing the BLM is a Marxist movement.

You got to be kidding me. You just need to listen what they have been saying since the organization has been founded.
What the founders and co founders have been saying all this years. People like Patrisse Cullors, and Alicia Garza.
Followers of an ideology rooted in the new left, progressive ideology. Themselves admit they are trained Marxists.

But yes he has posted evidence, multiple times.

Not surprised though. Conservative tactics never change.

Neither do Marxist far left tactics, which is what we are witnessing right now.

[Aexodus]

If you want to know what BLM’s political leanings are just take a look at their verified Twitter account where they rant about Israel and Zionism.

[Coughdrop addict]

What I don't understand is the absolute terror minority civil rights inspires on the right. Just like in the 60s the thought of treating Blacks or anyone who isn't white as an equal triggers Pavlovian cries of "Marxist! Communist! Socialist!". Does anyone here really think that minorities being first class citizens will harm them? How so?

[Infidel144]

Safe to say you can assume you’re on the “right” side when those with whom you disagree can only lie/troll in response.

^Point in case...

No I hadn’t. Tell me more.

Here are a few:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hijacked.html


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-far-Left.html

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...out-of-control

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...ment-lpmfn3f2j

[alhoon]

Which of the three founders are Marxists?

who said they are marxists?
Oh, wait. I did. I didn't say "founders" as in the sense of the handful of people that started the BLM movement or the regional branches (although apparently they are). I meant some of the movers-and-shakers in the BLM movement, or leaders of other groups that joined in the umbrella movement of the BLM.

Personally, I don't hate the BLM movement as a whole, I have problems with certain black supremacist factions and some very-strongly-anti-police factions and some of the communists.
I hate to sound as a progressive here, but it is undeniable that there's racism in the USA and especially in the police. Not the racism some idiots in the BLM movement and white celebretards claim, not the 1950s racism. Yes, there's the 1950s racism too but it is low and not very dangerous*.
The racism in USA the way I read it on reliable, not SJW-crap-oriented articles or from friends in USA or what I see here is social racism. The woman that screamed in terror when a black bird watcher approached her and complained about her dog, wouldn't be scared if a black man in a 5000$ gym outfit, wearing a fitness ring studded with diamonds was running next to her in the park. A friend of mine is in New York City (and has contacted coronavirus months ago). He is friends with some policemen and a black policeman told him that he is very cautious and wary when he hears "black" in the radio because their "main troublemakers" and "police killers" are black people and that's not my words, that's what a black policeman said. I have not researched it, whether true or false is not the point. My point is that this black policeman, whether right or wrong, sees black people as dangerous and those he arrests call him race-traitor and such.
And he sees them as dangerous because of the few, compared to the black population of NYC, black gangsters that shoot the police and steal and cause problems.

The same goes for the shopkeepers that are wary of blacks. But these shopkeepers also see the 95% of non-criminal black people, the ones that are polite and don't steal and all. So they are not wary when a black person in a nice suit and an office briefcase with his laptop walks in the shop with a smile. Nope.
But when a bunch of loud, rude, teenagers dressed like rappers enter the shop, the shopkeeper would be wary whatever the color of their skin.

All these attitudes are fueled by social inequality. The shopkeeper has learned to be more wary towards black people so he won't hire a black assistant ~> The black person that would be his assistant remains poorer and his kids grow up in poor, crime-infested neighborhoods.
The police officer (black, white, latino, whatever) will take out his frustrations and problems on the black kid because his coworkers would more easily accept that this kid that happened to be black was rude to him and "acting dangerously" because 2 weeks ago they were at the funeral of a policeman killed by black gangsters. That black kid that was beaten unjustly will obviously have resentment for the police.

And so the cycle continues.

The WRONG approach is to randomly give them random crap and in the process disadvantaging whites, without addressing the underlying issues. And this is something that will take decades.
Making it easier for the kid of the black guy with the good job that lives in the good neighborhood to go to college won't solve the problem of the atrocious middle and high schools in the ghettos. Removing "whitelisting" and "black list" will do nothing to address the living conditions in the rat-infested ghettos of NYC.

That said Trumps conspiracy blurb is no more true than the "Orange Man is a Russian Spy" narrative that Trump's opponents pedalled for a while. The guy gets very unfair treatment, and I am no fan of him, but he's in a stupidity contest with the Democrats and he's been winning for a while. I for one am sick of him winning (so you see he was right when he said "you'll be sick of winning").

Pedaled for a while? They are still pedaling it, to the point of saying that the evil Orange Man was fine with Russian government putting bounties on USA soldier heads!

So youtube?

Dude, she says that herself! What more do you need? A written confession?

nothing on BLM's website indicates the founders were Marxists nor the movement itself.

That's because the BLM is not a Marxist movement, but a movement that includes some Marxists. It also includes some Black Supremacists. It also includes many angry young people that don't give a crap about political ideologies and just don't want the police to shoot them because they were running on the street.

[Coughdrop addict]

The problem with knee-jerk labeling BLM as a Marxist conspiracy is that we've heard this all before. Remember how Obama was going to outlaw private property and turn the US into the new Soviet Union, and so was Clinton before him? What about when MLK was a communist plant and so was anyone else who dared protest Jim Crow? Or going even further back, wasn't women's suffrage a plot to overturn civilized society by "anarchists" (that generation's boogeyman)?

It was fear-mongering nonsense then, and it's fear-mongering nonsense today. Just a new coat of paint on the same tired old screeds.