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Thread: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

  1. #101

    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    So again, because he is religious then every single thing he thinks or does has to be solely because of his religion? Is that what you are trying to argue? He does't breath because he needs to to live, he breathes because he is religious!
    As I noted in post 74 when The spartan said:
    "So you think Shapiro's reasoning for being against legal abortion is not religious? Ok, sure thing, pal. If we are getting into this level of bad faith, I guess communicating ideas is not even an option."

    This is just The spartan is trying to change the subject, as he can not support his claim(s):
    "[Shapiro] just wants his religion's theocracy" post 59
    "[Shapiro] is a socially traditional Orthodox Jew who supports basing at least some laws in religious tenets alone" post 63

    Hence the shift to Shapiro's religious beliefs informing his 'political' stances.
    Which is entirely irrelevant to The spartan's claim that Shapiro wants laws based on religious tenets alone and supports a theocracy.
    What I also find interesting here is that while The spartan is ranting on about Shapiro's lack of, ummmm hmmmm, 'equity' in criticizing other religious radicals, I have not seen The spartan criticize say, Pelosi for wanting a "theocracy" and "basing at least some laws in religious tenets alone"
    And unlike The spartan, I can provide 'evidence', e.g. Pelosi citing the Bible and the Catholic Church:
    ""The Catholic Church has long watched with pride and admiration as DACA youth live out their daily lives with hope and determination to flourish and contribute to society," Pelosi declared. She quoted a statement from Catholic bishops who referenced Mark 9:37, a passage about welcoming children.
    "The bishops go on to say, 'The church has recognized and proclaimed the need to welcome young people. Whoever welcomes one of these children in my name welcomes me. And whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me. Mark 9:37.' That's so beautiful, because what they are saying is, when you reject these newcomers, you are rejecting those who sent them," the congresswoman said."
    "Elsewhere in her speech, Pelosi quoted Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats, in which Jesus says that anyone who helps the "least of these brothers and sisters of mine," they are really helping Him. She also quoted Luke 10:25-37, the parable of the Good Samaritan, in which Jesus taught that even those we despise and distrust are our neighbors."
    https://pjmedia.com/faith/pro-aborti...ration-speech/

    And Pelosi actually has political power.

    Or Obama:
    "Scripture tells us that we shall not oppress a stranger, for we know the heart of a stranger –- we were strangers once, too."
    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...on-immigration
    Last edited by chriscase; May 18, 2019 at 12:57 AM. Reason: personal reference removed

  2. #102
    chriscase's Avatar Princess Thunderballs
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    Please remember to address the post and avoid making characterizations of site members.
    Last edited by chriscase; May 17, 2019 at 11:35 PM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I mean, he considers other people with Jewish heritage to not be "true Jews" because they don't hold close enough to traditional Judaism, in his opinion. That does sound like something a fundamentalist would say, no?
    Not particularly, no. Questioning another person's self-identification isn't an indication of fundamentalism.

    That's pretty safe for him to say given his marriage benefits aren't threatened by the legality of gay marriage, or really threatened at all. I never claimed he believes Christianity or Judaism is free from fundamentalist elements.
    You accused Shapiro of just want[ing] his religion’s theocracy” and of “pretend[ing] that fundamentalism is just a Islam problem[sic]”. This would tend to indicate either that he doesn't believe that there are fundamentalist elements outside of Islam or he doesn't care about them. You haven't presented evidence to show that either is the case.

    It's just funny because it is like someone you know hates you says that you are the biggest loser in the world. You don't really have confidence in their accuracy, now do you?
    This is unrelated to your abject failure to present any evidence to support your claims.

    Oh, so you typically trust people who have a biased interpretation of poll data? Explains a lot.
    My trust is predicated on evidence; you still haven’t presented any to support your allegations of “extreme dishonesty” on Shapiro’s part.

    I suppose I could congratulate you for having a sense of humour though: your attempt to use the ravings of an unaccredited video game entertainer as “evidence” of Shapiro’s supposed lack of partiality and expertise is amusing in the way that only risible hypocrisy can be.

    He sure does speak authoritatively to his many followers, now doesn't he? I don't think he qualified his position once in the entire video; just straight tells you "most Muslims are radicals" in a video titled "The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority" on a program called "Reality Check".
    There isn’t anything particularly controversial in noticing that a majority of Muslims worldwide are opposed to secular philosophy. If you don't believe that opposition to secularism is radical then please present an argument explaining why.

    BS it is irrelevant. There is no way you just dismiss the concept of responsible messaging outright. Spreading misinformation to many people is way more harmful than spreading to very small amounts of people, so even if you think I am spreading misinformation, there is no way it is equivalent to spreading misinformation to as many people as Shapiro is.
    No, it is not relevant. The quality and/or accuracy of an argument is not contingent upon the number of people who hear it. If you want to sustain these accusations that Shapiro’s video spreads “harmful misinformation” you’re going to have to prove that his argument is false – otherwise you have no legitimate basis for categorizing it as misinformation.

    Except "my logic" was never to dismiss Shapiro's opinion, it was to point to his dishonest tactics.
    I’ll be sure to accuse you of “dishonest tactics” whenever you make a claim without providing academic citations then – or is it only other people’s arguments which are subject to that standard?

    Debunk Shapiro's view? He never 'bunked' it in the first place. He is just some guy with an opinion. You happen to agree with him but it doesn't mean both of you are right.
    My view of Shapiro's arguments does not entitle you to accuse him of dishonesty without providing any evidence.

    And I was never trying to "debunk his view", I am pointing out his dishonest tactics like data conflation, interpretations without context (Americans are just as enthusiastic about civilian bombings being "sometimes justified"), and emotionally appealing buzzwords.
    In order to demonstrate someone else’s dishonesty you have to show their willingness to offer fallacious arguments. This you have failed to do. All we’ve had is accusations without supporting evidence - and I have to say that your reliance on logical fallacies to "expose" someone else’s supposed dishonesty is laughably hypocritical.

    Hell, Shapiro got Nhytgbvfeco to unironically defend the position that suicide bombings can never be justified under any situation ever because of emotional connection to the phrase "suicide bombing".
    Meanwhile you, an alleged secularist, are "unironically", albeit inadvertently, defending Sharia advocacy.

    What? When did I say the two were tantamount?
    The source you provided criticized Shapiro for arguing that Sharia advocacy was tantamount to radicalism. If you do not think that Sharia advocacy (ie. theocratic advocacy) is radical then you are making the case, by clear implication, that opposing secularism is not radical.

    So I repeat: either you’re going to tell us why rejecting secularism isn’t tantamount to radicalism or you’re not going to rebuke Shapiro’s position.
    Last edited by ep1c_fail; May 18, 2019 at 08:38 AM.

  4. #104
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    I certainly wouldn't identify it as a positive if some christian was to look down on others cause they aren't as hardcore christiany as he is. Apparently it is ok in the case of lunatics like Shapiro to look down upon non-religious jews, though ^_^
    Though what takes the cake is his statements against palestinians. Those just show pure racism and cannot be defended nor let go of just cause he made some little list where he half-tries to cancel them.
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  5. #105
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I certainly wouldn't identify it as a positive if some christian was to look down on others cause they aren't as hardcore christiany as he is. Apparently it is ok in the case of lunatics like Shapiro to look down upon non-religious jews, though ^_^
    The difference between Orthodox Judaism and Reformed Judaism isn't that it's more "hardcore", it's more of a different branch of Judaism, kind of like Lutheranism and Catholicism are different branches of Christianity. It's basically a branch that decided to throw out half of the rituals and obligations of Judaism.
    Though what takes the cake is his statements against palestinians. Those just show pure racism and cannot be defended nor let go of just cause he made some little list where he half-tries to cancel them.
    He gave the context for his statements and explained them, as well as correcting himself on some of them. I suggest you read what he wrote on his list rather than simply saying that it cannot be defended.


  6. #106
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    First of all he isn't talking about different levels of religious jews; did you watch the interview with Neil? His "Jinos" (jews in name only) is explained to be secular jews.
    Secondly, again, even in this very interview, he tries to explain (in his mind positively) that he only meant palestinians voting for hamas, despite not saying so in his original quote (must have forgotten). Then ruins even that weak excuse by (again, watch the interview) saying that "by majority palestinians vote for hamas". Collective guilt didn't work well, Nhyt. Both jewish people and greek people suffered many murdered (jewish far far more) due to german sense of collective punishment in ww2. Murdering the entire population of villages just cause you suspect someone helped in the killing of a german soldier isn't justice nor logic, it is a warcrime. And i am sure i don't have to preach about jews being massacred to you.
    Shapiro is of that disgusting mentality.
    Last edited by Kyriakos; May 18, 2019 at 08:19 AM.
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  7. #107
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    First of all he isn't talking about different levels of religious jews; did you watch the interview with Neil? His "Jinos" (jews in name only) is explained to be secular jews.
    My bad, I misremembered. Though so have you, he said that in reference to Jews who voted for Obama, not secular Jews in general.
    Secondly, again, even in this very interview, he tries to explain (in his mind positively) that he only meant palestinians voting for hamas, despite not saying so in his original quote (must have forgotten).
    That's the point, he did say it in the next tweet(s). Something he explains on his list, if you were to bother to read it. It was part of a series of tweets, and was pretty much taken out of context.
    Then ruins even that weak excuse by (again, watch the interview) saying that "by majority palestinians vote for hamas". Collective guilt didn't work well, Nhyt.
    Collective guilt would be blaming all palestinians, not just all palestinians who voted for a terrorist organisation. If the majority of Israelis voted for a racist party wouldn't you say that that would make the majority of Israelis racists?
    Both jewish people and greek people suffered many murdered (jewish far far more) due to german sense of collective punishment in ww2. Murdering the entire population of villages just cause you suspect someone helped in the killing of a german soldier isn't justice nor logic, it is a warcrime. And i am sure i don't have to preach about jews being massacred to you.
    Shapiro is of that disgusting mentality.
    Jews weren't murdered during the Holocaust as a form of "collective punishment". If that is what you think then you ought to educate yourself on the Holocaust.


  8. #108
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    You know, given all four of your replies have glaring mistakes, i think i won't go over them. I already was of the view, as you recall, that it would be pointless to collide on this, and you may remember i have no issue with you.
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  9. #109
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: When even Andrew Neil seems cool (ludicrous ruin of Ben Shapiro)

    And I have no issue with you, however I still advise you look into both the list, and the reasons for the Holocaust.


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