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Thread: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

  1. #21
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    I believe formation_hold_distance in the pathfinding file matters somewhat more than any of those (can_formed_charge / power_charge). Whenever I tweaked that I noticed significant effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabenrecht View Post
    Ah, is this because once the first charging soldier hits the enemy a timer starts limiting the duration for which the charge bonus counts, right? And if the unit charges in unison the bonus will effectively last longer for more soldiers.

    In that sense if a charge is carefully conducted a unit without can_formed_charge will achieve comparable results to a unit with can_formed_charge. But in other situations when the unit is disordered when you issue the charge the unit with can_formed_charge will preform better.
    My conclusion from this observation is that it will not matter much in the EBII - and again, the reason is low killing ratio in the EBII and thus much shorter duration of the charge as % of the whole fight.

    Caeterum censeo: the effect of charging is too low in the EBII, and should be buffed up.

    Another aspect I find baffling is: the game and the mods don't use both power_charge and can_formed_charge in one unit (even King Kong in the TATW used it separately). Why it can be so? (noting the Ngugi's opinion that can_formed_charge might be only for cavalry - I actually think the same. And perhaps the EBII is right not using it as the charge in the ancient times should be weaker than in the Middle Ages)

    Furthermore, maybe somebody knows if an overall negative value of TroopMorale held by a general would impact the game in such a way? (eg. assume that a general has only one trait with effects TroopMorale -2. Would a unit of Komnetsamoi that has a base morale value of 1 start with effective morale of -1?
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 15, 2019 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    You should include Halithoz (the bodyguard) in your comparsion. These guys...I don't know what their morale is, but I've literally never witnessed them break, even when completely surrounded and fighting as the last unit on the battlefield.
    For the record, Halithoz uniquely possess the morale_lock trait, which does indeed mean they literally cannot rout, regardless of the circumstances. They're the only unit in the game at the moment that possesses it, a unique and rather fun oddity (though a pain to fight with conventional morale cheese tactics - best to use infantry pin and javs/arrows in the back (maybe a scorpion if you're feeling prickly ))

  3. #23

    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryoshakespeare View Post
    For the record, Halithoz uniquely possess the morale_lock trait, which does indeed mean they literally cannot rout, regardless of the circumstances.
    That explains a few things.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  4. #24
    bitterhowl's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    Totally agree with Jurand, I was surprised when I saw Triarii morale at 7. Those system results that units are just run back and forth on a battlefield every time when combat balance changed (+1 enemy unit comes near or something similar) I saw many times in tests when my units made deep flank maneuver, and run just after few seconds of melee. Only result of such manuevering is tiredness of troops. So I think Triarii should have at least 12 of morale.

    As for cavalry charge I have to say it's balanced ad it should, because heavy Armenian cavalry does devastating effect, and Roman does not, and it seems that it's historically accurate.

  5. #25
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Totally agree with Jurand, I was surprised when I saw Triarii morale at 7. Those system results that units are just run back and forth on a battlefield every time when combat balance changed (+1 enemy unit comes near or something similar) I saw many times in tests when my units made deep flank maneuver, and run just after few seconds of melee. Only result of such manuevering is tiredness of troops. So I think Triarii should have at least 12 of morale.
    Tests being Custom Battles where the commander is a Captain?

  6. #26

    Default Re: Compressed base morale of the units in EBII - why it is so?

    I had Principes break while doing a moderately risky manuever with an inexperienced general as well. So far it seems that if your general has only 1 command star and is Green/Blooded, you have to be careful with risky manuevers to avoid your troops fleeing, which I don't think is entirely inaccurate. Once they get 2 stars or become Veterans. I don't think I need to say that fighting without Imperium with an inexperienced general would likely end as an absolute disaster, I had to fight with a Grizzled one once and his 5 command stars turned into one when he attacked.

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