View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1941

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Leftists hate free trade... unless it's with Cuba.
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  2. #1942

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    How is it a criminal blockade exactly? Nations can choose not to trade with another country for whatever reason they choose.
    You're confusing an embargo with a blockade...
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #1943
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It's criminal if you hinder\stop the other guy from importing\exporting in general. It's perfectly legal if you don't want to import from him or export to him. There is obviously the grey area of twisting the arms of third parties to prevent them from trading with the guy, but that's not criminal either afaik.

    As I am not aware of any gun boats patrolling Cuban ports I guess the 'criminal blockade' case is not applicable. Unless it was meant as euphemism for 'economically damaging' then I guess it's kinda fail?

    Edit: ninja'ed by a man of few words
    Last edited by Gigantus; March 09, 2020 at 03:31 AM.










  4. #1944

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    And let's keep in mind that just 4 months ago, the UN General Assembly - once again- passed a resolution demanding the U.S. end its blockade against Cuba, a criminal blockade that has continued for 60 years.
    The assembly voted 187-3, with 2 abstentions.The U.S., Israel and Brazil opposed the resolution. Ukraine abstained - for obvious reasons.
    There is nothing illegal about sanctions and the UN General Assembly has no legal authority over the US or any other member state. Its resolutions are non-binding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #1945

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Mark Sawyer, Prof. at UCLA
    If Ché and the revolution were guilty of anything, it was a series of sins more consistent with American conservative’s current thinking about race than not. The Revolution was by ideology more colorblind than focused on fixing the problem of racial inequality
    Oh, look, defending the child murdering rapist Guevera. Not unexpected, as I mentioned earlier, it does not count when it is socialists doing it.....

    Oh, who are the "white supremacists" you are offering up your suggestion to?

  6. #1946
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    UN General Assembly has no legal authority over the US or any other member state.
    I'm talking about the moral authority of the rest of the world. It's the US vs 187 countries. The Us is totally isolated. Period.

    US sanctions against Cuba keep Europe puzzled

    Now, tighter measures, including massive claims for damages and denial of US visas, are increasingly threatening European business people, says the EU's envoy to Cuba, Alberto Navarro from Spain.
    "We consider the extraterritorial use of US sanction illegal and a violation of international law,".In the opinion of Navarro, Helms-Burton Act Chapter 3 is clearly intended to foster Washington's own selfish interests."This is a clear attempt by the US to kill off the Cuban economy."
    The EU has strongly criticized Chapter 3, which gives US nationals with claims to confiscated property in Cuba the right to file suit in US courts against anyone in hold of or trading in that property.
    EU stresses support for Cuba even as U.S. hikes sanctions

    The European Union is committed to helping Cuba develop its economy, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said on Monday, during a three-day trip to Havana, even as the United States hikes sanctions on the Communist-run island.
    The EU started normalizing relations with one-party Cuba about the same time as the United States five years ago, ending decades of Cold War-era hostility.

    But EU and U.S. policies have diverged, as U.S. President Donald Trump has unraveled the detente pursued by his predecessor. He has reverted to seeking to coerce the government to reform, a strategy that many experts say has long failed. EU officials say they believe they can better influence Cuba on human rights through dialogue than coercion.
    EU Explanation of Vote: United Nations General Assembly
    The EU believes that positive change in Cuba is best brought about by closer engagement at all levels – government, economy, civil society, but also through people-to-people exchanges. We therefore deeply regret the reintroduction of restrictions on US relations with Cuba by the current US Administration.

    ...Beyond the damaging impact of the embargo on ordinary Cubans, unilateral US sanctions and other unilateral administrative and judicial measures are also negatively affecting EU economic interests.

    We have firmly and continuously opposed any such measures, due to their extraterritorial application and impact on the European Union, in violation of commonly-accepted rules of international trade. We cannot accept that unilaterally-imposed measures impede our economic and commercial relations with Cuba.
    The EU strongly rejects the US activation of Title III and IV of the Helms-Burton Act in April 2019. This breaches the commitments made by the US in the US-EU agreements of 1997 and 1998. We will draw on all appropriate measures to address the effects of the Helms-Burton Act, including in relation to our WTO rights and through the use of the EU Blocking Statute, which protects against undue interference and problems for EU citizens, businesses and NGOs residing, working or operating in Cuba.

    We reiterate our call on the Cuban Government to fully grant its citizens internationally recognised civil, political and economic rights and freedoms, including freedom of assembly, freedom of expression and free access to information, to ratify the UN Covenant for Civil and Political Rights and the Covenant for Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, and to extend a standing invitation to all UN Special Procedures to visit Cuba.

    Following the generational leadership change that took place in Cuba in April 2018 and in the context of the implementation of the country's new Constitution, we call on Cuba to pursue a comprehensive reform and modernisation agenda, extending economic and social reforms and implementing them in a manner that will address the key concerns of the Cuban population, as well as meeting the legitimate aspirations of the Cuban people for more opportunities to participate in the shaping of the country's future.
    ----
    On a side note, there is already a thread for Cuba healthcare/education.
    -----
    The Cuban revolution ousted the bloody U.S.-backed military dictator in 1959, and the new government ensured state-sponsored universal access to education and health services, and that's a good thing:Amid Right-Wing Effort to Smear Sanders Over Cuba Comments
    -----
    Guevara, a radical revolutionary- and Fidel, a communist, pro-Soviet dictator -never embraced socialism in its most democratic essence. Also, there were ideological differences between Fidel and Guevara. I quote Frank Villafana, in "Cold War in the Congo: The Confrontation of Cuban Military Forces,1960-1967"
    The ideological differences between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara were astronomical. As Khrushchev was preaching peaceful coexistence with the Western powers and Castro agreeing with Khrushchev, Che Guevara was openly talking about "fight without a quarter against world imperialism" . While Castro was making speeches about Mao Tse-Dung being a fascist, Che was incorporating Mao's ideology into his speeches, calling for People's war
    --------
    There are also some ideological differences between America's maniacal and dehumanized hyper capitalism, a country where elections and politicians can be bought by billionaires, and the Western social democracies.

    Let's keep in mind that in the US, the Civil Rights Act of 1965 did little to remedy the problem of segregation. Even in 2103, a number of states passed new restrictions on voting that disproportionately affected Blacks, Latinos, elderly and poor people. Lats also keep in mind that before passage of the Voting Rights Act, only an estimated 23% percent of eligible black voters were registered nationwide
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 09, 2020 at 06:43 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  7. #1947

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    -----
    The Cuban revolution ousted the bloody U.S.-backed military dictator in 1959, and the new government ensured state-sponsored universal access to education and health services, and that's a good thing:Amid Right-Wing Effort to Smear Sanders Over Cuba Comments
    -----
    The 10's of thousands of victims of Castro democide is a good thing...
    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB16A.1.GIF

  8. #1948
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Enjoy,
    The European Commission added Saudi Arabia, Panama and four U.S. territories to a blacklist of nations it considers a threat because of lax controls on terrorism financing and money laundering, the EU executive said on Wednesday. Five of the listed countries are already included on a separate EU blacklist of tax havens. They are Samoa, Trinidad and Tobago and the three U.S. territories of American Samoa, Guam and U.S. Virgin Islands.
    Other countries including Pakistan, Libya and Panama have also been added to the list, which the European Parliament is expected to ratify within one month.

    U.K. Court Nixes Saudi Arms Sales-What it Means for the US ...
    The Court of Appeal of England and Wales issued a landmark ruling June 20 on the U.K.’s decision to continue licensing arms sales — and its failure to suspend existing licenses — to Saudi Arabia. The Saudi -led bombing of Yemen has killed tens of thousands of people and created the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. The court ruled, in essence, that in making decisions on arms sales, the U.K. government could no longer ignore uncomfortable facts. And the facts are uncomfortable. The case is expected to be heard at the Supreme court in 2020
    Meanwhile in the US, the troglodyte President of the US Trump uses veto to unblock $8bn weapons sale to Saudi Arabia.

    ---------
    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    victims of Castro is a good thing...
    Obviously not. Cuba on the EU perspective: read the EU explanation for vote, previous post. For those who have a convenient short memory, remarks by the Muslim/democratic socialist/communist President of the US, Obama to the People of Cuba. Read the whole speech.Excerpts,

    "President Castro, the people of Cuba, thank you so much for the warm welcome that I have received, that my family have received, and that our delegation has received. It is an extraordinary honor to be here today.

    To the government and the people of Cuba, I want to thank you for the kindness that you’ve shown to me and Michelle, Malia, Sasha, my mother-in-law, Marian.

    Cultivo una rosa blanca.” In his most famous poem, Jose Marti made this offering of friendship and peace to both his friend and his enemy. Today, as the President of the United States of America, I offer the Cuban people el saludo de paz.

    Havana is only 90 miles from Florida, but to get here we had to travel a great distance -- over barriers of history and ideology; barriers of pain and separation.

    The blue waters beneath Air Force One once carried American battleships to this island -- to liberate, but also to exert control over Cuba

    ...I have come here to bury the last remnant of the Cold War in the Americas. I have come here to extend the hand of friendship to the Cuban people.

    For all of our differences...I believe our grandchildren will look back on this period of isolation as an aberration, as just one chapter in a longer story of family and of friendship.
    But we cannot, and should not, ignore the very real differences that we have -- about how we organize our governments, our economies, and our societies...
    Despite these differences, on December 17th 2014, President Castro and I announced that the United States and Cuba would begin a process to normalize relations between our countries.

    Since then, we have established diplomatic relations and opened embassies. We've begun initiatives to cooperate on health and agriculture, education and law enforcement. We've reached agreements to restore direct flights and mail service. We've expanded commercial ties, and increased the capacity of Americans to travel and do business in Cuba.

    And these changes have been welcomed, even though there are still opponents to these policies. But still, many people on both sides of this debate have asked: Why now? Why now?
    There is one simple answer: What the United States was doing was not working. We have to have the courage to acknowledge that truth.

    A policy of isolation designed for the Cold War made little sense in the 21st century. The embargo was only hurting the Cuban people instead of helping them...we should not fear change, we should embrace it.

    Cuba has an extraordinary resource -- a system of education which values every boy and every girl. And in recent years, the Cuban government has begun to open up to the world...

    ... we’ve opened up space for commerce and exchanges -- so that Americans and Cubans can work together to find cures for diseases, and create jobs, and open the door to more opportunity for the Cuban people.
    As President of the United States, I’ve called on our Congress to lift the embargo .It is an outdated burden on the Cuban people. It's time to lift the embargo.
    I know these issues are sensitive, especially coming from an American President.

    Before 1959, some Americans saw Cuba as something to exploit, ignored poverty, enabled corruption. And since 1959, we’ve been shadow-boxers in this battle of geopolitics and personalities. I know the history, but I refuse to be trapped by it.

    I’ve made it clear that the United States has neither the capacity, nor the intention to impose change on Cuba. What changes come will depend upon the Cuban people. We will not impose our political or economic system on you

    Now, there’s no secret that our governments disagree on many of these issues. I’ve had frank conversations with President Castro... But here’s what the Cuban people need to understand: I welcome this open debate and dialogue. It’s good. It’s healthy. I’m not afraid of it.

    We do have too much money in American politics...We do have challenges with racial bias -- in our communities, in our criminal justice system, in our society -- the legacy of slavery and segregation. In 1959, the year that my father moved to America, it was illegal for him to marry my mother, who was white, in many American states. When I first started school, we were still struggling to desegregate schools across the American South..There’s still enormous problems in our society. But democracy is the way that we solve them. That's how we made enormous gains in women’s rights and gay rights. That's how we address the inequality that concentrates so much wealth at the top of our society.
    It isn’t always pretty, the process of democracy. It's often frustrating. You can see that in the election going on back home. But just stop and consider this fact about the American campaign that's taking place right now.
    You had two Cuban Americans in the Republican Party, running against the legacy of a black man who is President, while arguing that they’re the best person to beat the Democratic nominee who will either be a woman or a Democratic Socialist.

    So here’s my message to the Cuban government and the Cuban people: The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution -- America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world -- those ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy. Not because American democracy is perfect, but precisely because we’re not...
    ...And to President Castro -- who I appreciate being here today -- I want you to know, I believe my visit here demonstrates you do not need to fear a threat from the United States.
    We’ve played very different roles in the world. But no one should deny the service that thousands of Cuban doctors have delivered for the poor and suffering. (Applause.) Last year, American health care workers -- and the U.S. military -- worked side-by-side with Cubans to save lives and stamp out Ebola in West Africa. I believe that we should continue that kind of cooperation in other countries.

    We took different journeys to our support for the people of South Africa in ending apartheid. But President Castro and I could both be there in Johannesburg to pay tribute to the legacy of the great Nelson Mandela.

    From the beginning of my time in office, I’ve urged the people of the Americas to leave behind the ideological battles of the past. We are in a new era.
    The history of the United States and Cuba encompass revolution and conflict; struggle and sacrifice; retribution and, now, reconciliation. It is time, now, for us to leave the past behind. It is time for us to look forward to the future together -- un future de esperanza... We can make this journey as friends, and as neighbors, and as family -- together. Si se puede. Muchas gracias".
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 09, 2020 at 02:02 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #1949
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Chumming with a communist dictatorship is not something America or Britain wants to do thanks.

    If the EUSSR wants to, fine.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  10. #1950

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    No, of course not, the US after all only gets chummy with islamist and rightwing dictatorships, communist ones would a step too far.

  11. #1951
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    No, of course not, the US after all only gets chummy with islamist and rightwing dictatorships, communist ones would a step too far.

  12. #1952

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Goodpoint, though to call the current chinese state communist is stretching the definition a little bit, after all it has a capitalist economy (though with heavy government presence and oversight) married into an authoritarian and orwellian state apparatus. The only communist characteristic it maintained from before the 1978 economic opening of the country.

  13. #1953
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Cant rep you twice.

  14. #1954

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Chumming with a communist dictatorship is not something America or Britain wants to do thanks.

    If the EUSSR wants to, fine.
    Actions speak louder than words.



    Quote Originally Posted by juanplay View Post
    Goodpoint, though to call the current chinese state communist is stretching the definition a little bit, after all it has a capitalist economy (though with heavy government presence and oversight) married into an authoritarian and orwellian state apparatus. The only communist characteristic it maintained from before the 1978 economic opening of the country.
    It's a bit of a stretch to call China a capitalist economy, though it is definitely much closer to a capitalist economy than a communist one. If the gold standard for a "controlled economy" is the USSR, than China is very, very far from that standard. On the other hand, when people cite lack of property rights in China, that's a prevailing issue in many economies, not just China. Yet I don't see people point to South Korea as a Socialist hellhole, quite the opposite actually.

    One can refer to China as communist as they want, but such simplistic statements simply demonstrate a lack of nuance.

  15. #1955

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Chumming with a communist dictatorship is not something America or Britain wants to do thanks.

    If the EUSSR wants to, fine.
    This actually isn't important for a week yet. Well...they have to play it. It's important for the candidates. So don't get me wrong.

    You're just walking into a primary of Washington and Michigan; not Florida and Arizona. So you're off by about a week. This is a topic. But this week's topic is INDUSTRY. Get with it.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #1956

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    victims of Castro is a good thing...
    Obviously not. Cuba on the EU perspective: read the EU explanation for vote, previous post. For those who have a convenient short memory, remarks by the Muslim/democratic socialist/communist President of the US, Obama to the People of Cuba. Read the whole speech.
    Hmmm.... Ludicus deliberately and with out acknowledgement removing a word from the midst of that quote he provides from me:
    victims of Castro democide is a good thing...
    But such utter dishonesty is expected...
    After all, need to break a few eggs to make an omelet.
    And mass murder does not count when it is communazi marxists implementing a socialist paradise (odd how socialist paradises have to force people to stay...).

  17. #1957

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    snip
    None of it amounts to a "criminal blockade" though. Not sure why the UN feels they have the moral authority to dictate who we trade with.

    Back on topic:


    The format for the next debate in Arizona — their first since Biden’s blowout Super Tuesday victories — would have the candidates seated for the first time this election cycle and take multiple questions from the audience. In the prior 10 debates, the candidates stood at lecterns and nearly all questions were asked by the professional moderators.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-debate-123467

    Sleepy Joe needs to sit for the debates.. not a good look when John McCain was criticized for the possibility of "dying in office and Sarah Palin takes over"
    Last edited by tgoodenow; March 10, 2020 at 12:52 PM.

  18. #1958

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Someone didn’t read the article.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #1959

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    You know Biden has a stutter, right?

    A stutter does not get worse as a person ages, but trying to keep it at bay can take immense physical and mental energy. Biden talks all day to audiences both small and large. In addition to periodically stuttering or blocking on certain sounds, he appears to intentionally not stutter by switching to an alternative word—a technique called “circumlocution”—*which can yield mangled syntax. I’ve been following practically everything he’s said for months now, and sometimes what is quickly characterized as a memory lapse is indeed a stutter. As Eric Jackson, the speech pathologist, pointed out to me, during a town hall in August Biden briefly blocked on Obama, before quickly subbing in my boss. The headlines after the event? “Biden Forgets Obama’s Name.”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...rofile/602401/
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  20. #1960

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    You know Biden has a stutter, right?



    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...rofile/602401/
    All that stuttering about 150 million killed by gun violence, running for senate, and AR14 machine guns must be tiresome.

    Switching the debate from 1v1 deathmatch surely isn't to hide this guy's stutter.

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