View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

Voters
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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1381

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Preventing democratic mob rule and fear of uniformed voters (ironic right) were bigger reasons than slavery in its creation. Blame the Founders who had to compromise.

    Remember 2012? When the Republicans thought if they just doubled-down on ideology and and kept going to the right that they'd beat Obama? How'd that work out?
    They kinda did the opposite by nominating Obama's less tanned version in 2012.
    At the end of the day, grassroots anti-establishment rhetoric will always triumph over elitism. Republicans learned that the hard way when their elitist candidate ate dust in 2008 and 2012. Democrats (at least their leadership) exist in an echo chamber where it is still late 90s/early 2000s and legacy media has still not been replaced by Internet as main source of information. And they haven't even learned anything from 2016. It will be amusing to see Democrats try and justify free healthcare for illegal aliens and late-term abortions in general.

  2. #1382

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Forget about Bernie, the guy is Trump's wet dream.

    Obama campaign guru: Trump would love to run against Bernie - POLITICO

    During the best economic expansion in decades, economy-minded voters simply aren't going to replace the incumbent president with an avowed socialist who promises to shake up the whole economy. That's ridiculous.

    Trump may be a Kremlin stooge, but there's (probably) enough traditional Republicans around him to keep him in check. On the other hand, the people Bernie surrounds himself with are full-blown America-haters. Pretty much all foreign policy-minded voters would take Trump over Bernie.

    Most personality-driven voters would rather have a beer with Trump than with an angry old man yelling and wagging his finger at everyone.

    Remember that 4 million Obama voters stayed home in 2016, a lot of whom were black. Bernie just doesn't have the connection with black voters that Obama or Biden do. If black voters fail to turn out again, Bernie will have a tough time winning back key states like Michigan.

    To make things worse, with Bernie at the top of the ticket, Democrats stand a good chance of losing the House too, since most of the seats they flipped in 2018 were in red or purple districts, and Bernie's socialist platform would put those voters right off.

    A Bernie Sanders nomination “probably does put our House majority in jeopardy,” says co-chair of the DCCC’s Frontline program
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  3. #1383

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    During the best economic expansion in decades, economy-minded voters simply aren't going to replace the incumbent president with an avowed socialist who promises to shake up the whole economy. That's ridiculous.
    Define economic expansion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Trump may be a Kremlin stooge, but there's (probably) enough traditional Republicans around him to keep him in check. On the other hand, the people Bernie surrounds himself with are full-blown America-haters. Pretty much all foreign policy-minded voters would take Trump over Bernie.
    Calling people American-haters just because you disagree with them is petty. What Trump have shown day after day is that any Republican around him is expandable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Most personality-driven voters would rather have a beer with Trump than with an angry old man yelling and wagging his finger at everyone.
    Not a valid argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Remember that 4 million Obama voters stayed home in 2016, a lot of whom were black. Bernie just doesn't have the connection with black voters that Obama or Biden do. If black voters fail to turn out again, Bernie will have a tough time winning back key states like Michigan.
    Citation needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    To make things worse, with Bernie at the top of the ticket, Democrats stand a good chance of losing the House too, since most of the seats they flipped in 2018 were in red or purple districts, and Bernie's socialist platform would put those voters right off.
    A Bernie Sanders nomination “probably does put our House majority in jeopardy,” says co-chair of the DCCC’s Frontline program
    Part of that House win for Democrats was done by candidates Sanders directly supported. So, there is a good chance the Democrats will even more House seats thanks to him.
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #1384

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It would be funny if Russians are just waiting on who gets the nomination, wouldn't be surprised if they released records of Kremlin giving money to Biden or Sanders during Cold War days.

  5. #1385
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    so when they say that the Democratic Socialists, (unlike the Social democrats)... and advocate systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism
    Let's put it this way: you can label them according to you preference. The political program is what matters most, not the generic name of a political party. Read the political program, what you think they want? the establishment of a classless society, the dissolution of political parties?
    A new International "without party, without country, without national community, without co-citizenship, without common belonging to a class"? (Derrida, 1994, 85).

    What worries you the most? the word "socialism"? this or the "fact" that "in Denmark taxes are so high and welfare services so generous that no one wants to work"(1); " "nobody graduates from school" and "nobody is incentivized to do anything, because they are not going to be rewarded." ; "Denmark likes Venezuela restricts people of their opportunities, is that the direction we want to go in? Sanders like it"
    Trish Regan, Fox news,




    Facts about Denmark
    - Ministry of Foreign affairs of Denmark

    Facts about Denmark?

    State of the Economy?
    Danish GDP growth has increased gradually in recent years (2.1 pct. in 2017). Unemployment is low (3.9 pct. June 2018). Surpluses on the balance of payments, central government finances and government budget balance. Debt reduced to 36.4 pct. of GDP in 2017. Substantially lower than in USA. Inflation is low and stable (1.1 pct. in 2017)

    Open for Business?
    According to U.S. News and their ranking: “Open for Business – These market oriented countries are a haven for capitalists and corporations”, Denmark ranks as number 4 in the world. The US ranks as number 43. Denmark is number 7 on Forbes Best Countries for Business list. The US is number 12. The latest World Bank's ranking of ease of doing business has Denmark as number 3 worldwide and number 1 in Europe. The US is number 6.

    Innovation?
    Denmark is consistently in the top 10 of most innovative countries in the world together with the US. See e.g. 2018 Bloomberg Innovation Index, the World Economic Forum’s latest Global Competitiveness Index, and the Global innovation index of 2018 published by Cornell University, INSEAD business school, and the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). The European Commission ranks Denmark number 1 in the European Union in terms of digital economy.

    Education and Human Capital?
    Denmark is in the top 5 on World Economic Forum’s latest Human Capital Index together with the US – defined as the knowledge and skills people possess that enable them to create value in the global economic system. Denmark is in top 10 in U.S. News about Best countries for Education. Denmark is ranked 2 in the world when it comes to attracting, developing and retaining top talent by the IMD Business School. The US is ranked 16.

    Economic Freedom?
    In Heritage Foundation's 2018 Index of Economic Freedom - defined as “Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property” - Denmark ranks as number 12. The US ranks as number 18. According to the World Economic Forum, “you're more likely to achieve the American dream if you live in Denmark”.

    (1)Don’t people work in Denmark?
    We do! Among the working age population, more people work in Denmark than in USA. 75 pct. of the Danish working age population is working. In US it is 70,6 pct., cf. OEDS data on employment.

    Work-life-balance and Happiness?
    Denmark has the best Work-Life-Balance in the world according to World Economic Forum. And we are one of the most happiest countries in the world according to this year’s World Happiness Report – competing, by the way, with Norway, Finland, Iceland, and Sweden
    So, the question is -how desperate the US right (and that includes the democratic party elites) is becoming in their attempt to stem the rise of democratic socialism and undermine Bernie Sanders presidential run in 2020? Bernie Sanders is climbing everywhere - CNNPolitics


    ----

    "We have socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for everyone else". Luther King.

    In doubt ask Jamie Dimon, the head of JP Morgan Chase, the biggest bank in America. As result of Dimon's corporate socialism- 12 years ago- 15 million Americans lost their homes, 10 million lost their jobs, the American people lost 13 trillion dollars in savings. His bank get a 416 billion bailout, he made over 270 million in total compensation since 2007, and his bank is now over a trillion dollars bigger than it was before the bailout, and Dimon became a billionaire who is now worth 1.6 billion.
    There is nothing dangerously radical in the right to health care, the right to a good job, the right to a living wage, the right to education, the right to a secure retirement, the right to affordable house, the right to live in an health environment. In fact, it's just common sense.

    --
    Edit,

    Hillary Clinton: " He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it. It's not only him, it's the culture around him"

    Year 2106.
    Without comments,

    Last edited by Ludicus; January 26, 2020 at 05:56 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  6. #1386
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    What worries you the most? the word "socialism"?
    Yes.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  7. #1387
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Originally Posted by Ludicus
    What worries you the most? the word "socialism"?

    Yes.
    Socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the rest.

    John Cleese
    You are confused. Cleese supported Obama's presidential candidacy.Obama, the dirty "socialist".
    I am due to come to Europe in November but I may be tied up until then because if Barack Obama gets the nomination I’m going to offer my services to him as a speechwriter because I think he is a brilliant man
    He once said, seriously, "capitalism is the best system, only id its profit-obsessed logic is constrained. He pointed to corporate media and deplored pro-capitalist media policies: " I would rather live in Czechoslovakia under Dubcek than work for a newspaper run by Rupert Murdoch".
    -----

    "...and what they do in England is entirely different. In England the entire cost of medicine for people of all ages- all of it doctors, the choice of doctors, hospitals from the time you're born to the time you die are included in a government program....
    What we are talking about doing most of the countries of Europe did years ago. The British did it thirty years ago. We are behind every country pretty nearly in Europe in this matter of medical care for our citizens...and those who say that we are now talking about spoils our great pioneer heritage should be remember that the West was settled with two great actions by the national government. One in President's Lincoln administration when he gave a homestead to everyone who went west and in 1862 he set aside government property to build our land-grant colleges. This cooperation between an alert and progressive citizen and and a progressive government is what made this country great. And we shall continue as long as we have the opportunity to do so"

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  8. #1388

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Your agenda has promised free health care for everybody, free college tuition, and to pay off peoples’ college loans. The price tag for that is estimated to be $60 trillion dollars over ten years. Is that correct?” asked Norah O’Donnell of CBS Evening News.

    “Well look, we have political opponents…” Sanders began before being cut off and pressed on the question.

    “You don’t know how much your plan costs?” O’Donnell responded.

    “You don’t know. Nobody knows. This is impossible to predict,” Sanders conceded, leaving O’Donnell stunned.

    “You’re going to propose a plan to the American people and you’re not going to tell them how much it costs?” O’Donnell exclaimed.
    This is just embarrassing. Atleast have a ballpark number. It’s not “impossible” to predict.

  9. #1389

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Frederic Bastiat
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    Exarch, Coughdrop addict

  10. #1390
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    "The State! What is it? Where is it? What does it do? What should it do?"
    Are the pharmaceutical companies right? I don't think you'll find the answer in Bastiat. Trump has dropped his promise to allow Medicare to negotiate the cost of drugs. So- Booker and Sanders propose a new federal agency to set drug prices
    ...aimed at controlling the rising cost of prescription drugs.
    Column: Trump again promises a plan to reduce drug prices

    ...But Republican lawmakers, acting at the behest of drug companies, for years have resisted moves to allow Medicare to bargain with pharmaceutical manufacturers.
    -----
    Despite Trump promises, "Our ambitious campaign to reduce the price of prescription drugs...", he's exaggerating his influence on brand name drug prices, the area that worries consumers the most. (1)

    Medscape - MS Drug Prices Continue to Skyrocket
    Damian McNamaraJanuary 23, 2020

    I quote, excerpts,

    Despite increased competition from an expanded number of approved multiple sclerosis (MS) medications and the introduction of a generic agent, drug prices have nearly doubled, and spending on these agents has nearly tripled over the past 7 years.
    Investigators found that spending on 15 disease-modifying therapies (DMTs) within the Medicaid program increased from $453 million in the first quarter of 2011 to $1.32 billion in the fourth quarter of 2017.
    The average cost per prescription increased from $3080 to $6420 during that period.
    "We pursued this research because some attribute the escalating prices in the MS space to a lack of generic competition," lead author Daniel M. Hartung, PharmD, MPH, of the Oregon Health and Science University College of Pharmacy in Portland, told Medscape Medical News.

    The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the first generic DMT for MS in the United States, glatiramer (Glatopa, Sandoz), in April 2015. However, this failed to curb the trend of rising MS drug prices.
    "It was unfortunate, but perhaps not surprising, that the entrance of a new generic for one of the most commonly prescribed MS medications, Copaxone (glatiramer acetate injection, Teva), had little effect on the continued cost escalation for drugs within the same class," said Hartung....The study was published online January 15 in Neurology.

    Ongoing Trend
    The new findings build on previous research showing that prices for MS DMTs increased four- to fivefold between 2000 and 2013...In the current study, investigators examined total Medicare spending and use for 15 DMTs. Their analysis was based on CMS drug utilization data.

    "Generic Paradox"
    "The strategy of moving sales of a product that is nearing the end of its period of market exclusivity to a slightly altered, but non-interchangeable, version is a common industry tactic that likely blunted the impact of this new generic," the researchers note.

    ... The "generic paradox" phenomenon, in which the price of a branded drug increases shortly after its generic counterpart becomes available, has been reported with other agents, In the current study, the researchers note that the Sandoz generic of glatiramer acetate was only 15% less expensive than the branded 20-mg Sandoz version. In addition, the generic agent cost almost the same as the 40-mg Sandoz formulation. Both factors could have contributed to lower uptake of the generic, they note.
    "The continued use of branded glatiramer acetate may also reflect reticence for conversion to a generic by patients and clinicians for clinical reasons," the investigators write.
    Commenting on the findings for Medscape Medical News, Alvaro San-Juan-Rodriguez, PharmD, said the findings are concerning and noted that rising drug prices limit MS patients' access to treatment.
    "Free market, Better Medicine". Really? the current situation cries out for change.
    ------

    (1)
    The Paradox of Legal Equivalents and Scientific Equivalence ...
    "Contrary to popular perception, generic drugs often enter the market before the patents covering their brand name counterparts have expired by making slight changes to the drug to avoid the brand name patent. These generics face a paradox: the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires that the generic "not show a significant difference" from the reference product, while patent law requires that the generic have "substantial differences" as compared to the reference product. The generic must be bioequivalent, but not legally equivalent, to the brand name drug"

    Bioequivalence and Interchangeability of Generic Drugs ...
    "Although 250 milligrams (mg) of a brand-name chemical is identical to 250 mg of the same generic chemical, a 250-mg generic pill containing that chemical may or may not have the same effect in the body as a 250-mg brand-name pill. That is because everything that is used in a particular product formulation affects how it is absorbed into the bloodstream. Inactive ingredients such as coatings, stabilizers, fillers, binders, flavorings, diluents, and others are necessary to turn a chemical into a usable drug product.
    Sometimes generic substitution may not be appropriate. For example, some available generic versions may not be bioequivalent to the brand-name drug. Such generic drugs may still be used, but they may not be substituted for the brand-name product.
    Digoxin, used to treat people with heart failure, is an example. Switching from the brand-name version of digoxin to a generic product may cause problems, because the two versions may not be sufficiently bioequivalent. However, some generic versions of digoxin have been certified as bioequivalent by the FDA."

    Orange Book - FDA
    It's the gold standard reference for generic drug substitution.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #1391
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Socialism for the rich, and capitalism for the rest.
    Not quite,

    According to the left’s own sources, democratic socialism will cost $42.5 trillion in its first decade. How would the US pay for it?

    Under the most generous assumptions possible, liberal proposals would cut $8.5 trillion on the spending side. To begin with, state governments no longer burdened with health care costs would save $4.1 trillion, according to the Urban Institute. The popular leftist goal of slashing defense spending down to Europe’s target of 2 percent of GDP, for which there is no plausible blueprint, would nonetheless save $1.9 trillion if achieved, according to CBO data. Charitably assuming that the jobs guarantee would reduce antipoverty spending by one-quarter would save $2.5 trillion.

    Paying for the remaining $34 trillion would require nearly doubling federal tax revenues. Let’s examine three paths using data from CBO’s menu of budget savings:

    1. What about just taxing corporations and rich families? Raising the final $34 trillion would require seizing roughly 100 percent of all corporate profits as well as 100 percent of all family wage income and pass-through business income above the thresholds of $90,000 (single) or $150,000 (married), and absurdly assuming they all continue working. (This calculation refers to individual income, not investment income.)

    2. How about a European-style value-added tax (VAT), which is basically a national sales tax? A rate of 87 percent would be needed to collect $34 trillion under the American tax base.

    3. What about payroll taxes? Lawmakers would need to create a new 37 percent payroll tax, on top of the existing 15.3 percent payroll tax, in order to collect $34 trillion.

    And the taxes do not stop there. There is still that aforementioned baseline budget deficit of $12.4 trillion over the decade, and $84 trillion over 30 years (driven almost exclusively by growing Social Security and Medicare shortfalls). It is not sustainable to allow budget deficits to swell to nearly 10 percent of GDP during peace and prosperity. So tack on an additional across-the-board income tax hike of 15 percentage points just to pay for the growing costs of our current federal programs.

    Mix and match these tax policies and it still represents an unfathomable and impossible tax burden. American taxes would be higher than most of Europe because its spending levels would also be higher. (Our health care system would still cost more, and Europe does not have an expensive government job guarantee.)

    Taxing the rich is not enough. America would need to match, or even surpass, Europe’s enormous tax burden on the middle class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    You are confused.
    lol

  12. #1392

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Its easy to fly numbers, especially when they don't bother to back them up with any substance. Does 42.5$ trillion dollars contain Medicare-For-All? Probably. Does it take into account the existing spending? Doesn't seem to be. Incidentally, most reporters do not really provide a clear balance sheet on net numbers. What Medicare for All seems to do is reduce total spending. It's a net benefit for the country. A lot of it is simply about shifting who pays what when. Does that article there account for what would be done with the money saved? Sander's published a list of options to use from to fund these programs. None include doubling the taxes.
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #1393
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Indeed. Let's move on.
    ---
    The Senate vs the People.A very interesting article.

    What I learned watching Bernie and Biden for hours on end - Politico

    While in Washington, I watched Sanders struggle to generate excitement among his Senate colleagues, in Iowa I watched Biden, the candidate with the most Senate endorsements, struggle to generate enthusiasm among a small group of voters in Council Bluffs, on the Nebraska border.

    How voters decide what to make of this contrast...could determine who wins the Democratic nomination.

    As the trial started, a trove of polling data told a new story about the presidential race. Sanders was gaining ground in Iowa and New Hampshire, he remained competitive in Nevada, and he was tied with Biden in California, the state with the most Democratic delegates.

    But at least from the gallery, there was no sense that Sanders had returned to the Senate a conquering hero.

    In Des Moines, Sanders is a rock star. In Washington, he sat alone and silent among the people he could soon lead, surely knowing he is not their choice.

    Sanders, according to Hillary Clinton’s recent harsh assessment, is someone that “nobody likes” and “nobody wants to work with” in the Senate, but in Iowa he has raucous crowds and actual rock stars campaigning for him. Biden is a beloved figure among Democrats in the Senate and has trouble rousing an audience in Iowa.
    Don't worry. I don't know exactly where Brutus sits, but Sanders is far from being Caesar.


    Without comments, Super PAC Attacks Sanders in an Ad. Sanders Raises $1.3 in a Day

    --
    So, what's the problem with a US national health System?
    Dear daughter, I am happy to have shared with you 22 years of your life. I am sad that time has come to an end so soon. No more needles, no more stressing over your health.”
    The insulin market is dominated by Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk. When researchers in Toronto first discovered insulin in 1921, they sold the patent to the University of Toronto for $1: The hope was that insulin would be available to all.
    The price of insulin is killing Americans - Focus - France 24

    In the past five years, the price of insulin in the US has nearly doubled. Diabetics who do not have medical coverage or insurance have to pay around $1000 every month for the life-saving drug.
    Trump’s health and human services secretary is Alex Azar, the former CEO of Eli Lilly. He made $2 million in his final year at the pharmaceutical company and also received a $1.6 million severance package.

    Why Insulin is So Much Cheaper in Germany Than in the U.S. ...
    E very now and then, Katie West considers returning to the U.S. She moved to Germany for graduate school three years ago and now works as a health systems researcher in Hamburg. Her family is an ocean away. Then she remembers why she stays.
    West, 30, has had type 1 diabetes since she was three years old. Back in Seattle, where she used to live, she typically paid $70 per month for insulin and another $130 for pump supplies. That was a relative steal in the U.S., made possible by her excellent health insurance, which she got through her employer. But still, it was a financial strain.
    In Germany, she pays about €10, roughly $11. Every three months.
    “I don’t ever have to worry,” she says. “There is not a day I ever have to worry about if I can pay for something, or manage something.”
    ------
    In my country, one vial of Humalog costs zero dollars. Nada, Niente, nothing, nichts. In the US one vial costs $435. In a relatively poor country, cancer treatment costs zero.



    Public versus private healthcare?
    World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health

    US, 37th.
    --

    These are the economies with the most (and least) efficient health care: ( Bloomberg)
    1. Hong Kong
    2. Singapore
    3. Spain
    ---
    US near bottom,
    54. U.S. and Azerbaijan


    Last edited by Ludicus; January 30, 2020 at 06:48 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  14. #1394
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Its easy to fly numbers, especially when they don't bother to back them up with any substance. Does 42.5$ trillion dollars contain Medicare-For-All? Probably. Does it take into account the existing spending? Doesn't seem to be. Incidentally, most reporters do not really provide a clear balance sheet on net numbers. What Medicare for All seems to do is reduce total spending. It's a net benefit for the country. A lot of it is simply about shifting who pays what when. Does that article there account for what would be done with the money saved? Sander's published a list of options to use from to fund these programs. None include doubling the taxes.
    The sources are in the linked article.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sander's published a list of options to use from to fund these programs. None include doubling the taxes.
    Sanders admittedly doesnt know how much his programs would cost.

    (CNN) While the new spending programs Sen. Bernie Sanders has proposed in his presidential campaign would at least double federal spending over the next decade, he has provided little detail about how he would implement or finance such a massive increase.

    The Vermont independent's agenda represents an expansion of government's cost and size unprecedented since World War II, according to estimates from his own website and projections by a wide variety of fiscal experts.
    "I think if the price tag for the Sanders agenda was [better] known ... voters would blanch -- even Democratic primary voters would blanch," said Jim Kessler, executive vice president for policy at Third Way, a centrist Democratic group. "The truth of the matter is in primary elections both in 2016 and so far in this one, he's allowed to skate. He gets graded on a curve. But if he were the nominee, the curve is over. The Republicans will spend a billion dollars picking apart every one of his plans."
    Multiple officials at Sanders' campaign did not respond to requests for comments on the scope of his agenda or their own estimates of its cost. In an interview earlier this year, one top Sanders aide said the candidate's proposed cumulative increase in government's size "is not something we are discussing in the scope of the campaign."
    The sheer size of Sanders' spending agenda dwarfs the proposed tax increases he has offered to pay for it, economists across the ideological spectrum agree.

  15. #1395

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    The sources are in the linked article.
    Sanders admittedly doesnt know how much his programs would cost.
    What a lazy argument to say that the sources are in the linked article. I didn't ask where the sources were. I pointed out how vague they're trying to be to make a case. Nothing you quoted there shows Sanders admitting he doesn't know how much his programs will cost.
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #1396
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What a lazy argument to say that the sources are in the linked article. I didn't ask where the sources were. I pointed out how vague they're trying to be to make a case. Nothing you quoted there shows Sanders admitting he doesn't know how much his programs will cost.
    Bernie Sanders: ‘I Don’t Know How Much My Plans Are Going To Cost’

  17. #1397

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I'm glad you performed an accurate search this time. Now, explain how this relates to what you responded to.
    The Armenian Issue

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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I'm glad you performed an accurate search this time.
    Oh, I just read the thread before I post, you should try it too, this info was already there #1388

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Now, explain how this relates to what you responded to.
    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sander's published a list of options to use from to fund these programs. None include doubling the taxes.
    Its kind of obvious, if he doesnt know how much it will cost then he wouldnt know if that "list of options" would cover the expenses too, so that list is BS.

    Others have estimations but not Sanders:
    (CNN) While the new spending programs Sen. Bernie Sanders has proposed in his presidential campaign would at least double federal spending over the next decade, he has provided little detail about how he would implement or finance such a massive increase.

    The Vermont independent's agenda represents an expansion of government's cost and size unprecedented since World War II, according to estimates from his own website and projections by a wide variety of fiscal experts.
    "I think if the price tag for the Sanders agenda was [better] known ... voters would blanch -- even Democratic primary voters would blanch," said Jim Kessler, executive vice president for policy at Third Way, a centrist Democratic group. "The truth of the matter is in primary elections both in 2016 and so far in this one, he's allowed to skate. He gets graded on a curve. But if he were the nominee, the curve is over. The Republicans will spend a billion dollars picking apart every one of his plans."
    Multiple officials at Sanders' campaign did not respond to requests for comments on the scope of his agenda or their own estimates of its cost. In an interview earlier this year, one top Sanders aide said the candidate's proposed cumulative increase in government's size "is not something we are discussing in the scope of the campaign."
    The sheer size of Sanders' spending agenda dwarfs the proposed tax increases he has offered to pay for it, economists across the ideological spectrum agree.
    He does know that the cost of his plans would be astronomical, thats why he is silent about it, saying it out loud would show how unaffordable his plans are and that would cost him the race.

  19. #1399

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Oh, I just read the thread before I post, you should try it too, this info was already there #1388
    Its kind of obvious, if he doesnt know how much it will cost then he wouldnt know if that "list of options" would cover the expenses too, so that list is BS.
    Others have estimations but not Sanders:
    He does know that the cost of his plans would be astronomical, thats why he is silent about it, saying it out loud would show how unaffordable his plans are and that would cost him the race.
    He knows or he doesn't know? Which one? You gotta pick. How does your confusion relate to Sanders' team providing a number of options to produce funds from and how none of them involve around raising taxes astronomically?
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #1400
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    He knows or he doesn't know? Which one? You gotta pick. How does your confusion relate to Sanders' team providing a number of options to produce funds from and how none of them involve around raising taxes astronomically?
    Oh, he doesnt know the exact number, (the highest I heard was 97.5 trillion haha) but by now, at least he knows its magnitude, and how it is unaffordable. Thats why he wont talk about it. So Sanders team provides options to funds, to cover... what expense? Oh yeah, the expense they refuse to talk about.

    But be my guest, so how much would Bernies utopia cost?

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