View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

Voters
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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #121

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Where does Biden support free healthcare for illegal immigrants?

    In the UK illegal immigrants get free healthcare I believe, I may be wrong, but if true it’s truly tragic.
    Leading 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden said this week that the U.S. must provide health care to everyone in the country, “regardless of whether they are documented or undocumented.”Biden made the remarks while campaigning in Los Angeles, as he fielded questions from the media.
    “Look, I think that anyone who is in a situation where they are in need of health care, regardless of whether they are documented or undocumented, we have an obligation to see that they are cared for,” Biden said in response to whether illegal immigrants “should be entitled to federal benefits like Medicare, Medicaid


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...-to-provide-it

  2. #122
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    Biden is probably a safe choice for 2020 for the Democratic Party,
    That is, if he stays fit for the presidency in the following 1 1/2 years and doesn't suffer any age-related effect. I would not call a 77-years old "a safe bet". For all we know his health may take a large dive soon and it won't be surprising since he is old.
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  3. #123

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Venezuela. Plus Syria and Iraq where the USA backed forces were also violent and did countless crimes too.
    Trump didn't really do anything about Venezuela, and he inherited Syria and Iraq from his predecessors who were the ones to back thuggish groups like FSA.
    Jarred.
    And which energy company is he heading in Syria, Iraq or Venezuela?

  4. #124

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I've read that Biden is polling a lot better with Jewish Democrats. Although I imagine a lot of Jewish Democrats actually share more of Sanders view of Israel than Biden's, because a lot of them are very critical of the Netanyahu government. Most probably don't see either candidate as bad for Israel, and shockingly, a fair amount of them don't care either way. There are a couple of reasons I think they'd prefer Biden on average though. Despite the radical leftist Jewish stereotype, which isn't based on nothing, I'd say the majority of American Jews are politically liberal but a bit conservative in their personal choices, making them basically center left. The other reason is more apparent when you look at their median income. From an economic self-interest standpoint, Sanders' policies likely won't benefit most of them, but will certainly cut into their income.

    While many Jews are critical of Israel's leader, calling them "racist" as Sanders does will alienate them. Jews may only make up a small percentage of the Democratic Party and the country, but they have an influence far beyond their numbers. Jewish voters are well off and well educated on the average, and money in American campaigns is very critical. Openly criticizing Israel is a touchy subject in the US, Israel has strong support among the US public and in both political parties, and "racist" is a pejorative term that goes beyond being merely critical of the Israel government, and is likely to alienate Jewish voters who might otherwise have supported Sanders.

    The other thing against Sanders is that he isn't really a committed Democrat, and has often run as an independent in previous elections. While he does have far more in common with the Democrats than Republicans, among the Democrat Party regulars, he often isn't seen as a real Democrat, but mere as opportunist, running in the Democratic primaries only because he has much better shot as wining as a Democrat than as a independent. While that might not affect many of the voters in Democratic primaries, it is different among the Democratic Party regulars who are committed to the Democratic Party. Their support or lack of it can be important.

  5. #125

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    While many Jews are critical of Israel's leader, calling them "racist" as Sanders does will alienate them. Jews may only make up a small percentage of the Democratic Party and the country, but they have an influence far beyond their numbers. Jewish voters are well off and well educated on the average, and money in American campaigns is very critical. Openly criticizing Israel is a touchy subject in the US, Israel has strong support among the US public and in both political parties, and "racist" is a pejorative term that goes beyond being merely critical of the Israel government, and is likely to alienate Jewish voters who might otherwise have supported Sanders.
    I didn't notice any negative reaction to it in any Jewish media, but here's what he specifically said:

    “What I believe is not radical — I just believe that the U.S. should deal with the Middle East on a level-playing-field basis. In other words, the goal must be to try to bring people together and not just support one country, which is now run by a right-wing — dare I say — racist government. I am 100 percent pro-Israel. Israel has every right in the world to exist and to exist in peace and security, and not be subjected to terrorist attacks. But the United States needs to deal not just with Israel but with the Palestinian people as well.”

    Sanders’s response was met with applause on multiple occasions.

    Sanders, a longtime critic of Netanyahu and Israeli government policies toward the Palestinians, said on the eve of Israel’s elections last month that he hoped Netanyahu lost. “When election time comes in Israel, he always tries going even further to the right by appealing to racism within Israel, I think it’s unfortunate,” Sanders told NBC. “I’m not a great fan of his, and, frankly, I hope he loses his election.”
    If left wing American Jews take it as a criticism of Netanyahu and specifically the Netanyahu government, I can't really see them taking it badly, considering they tend to have a great deal of disdain for him themselves. Not a scientific survey, but my Facebook feed is full of Jews talkin crap about Netanyahu. They have a lot of issues with the current government that don't tend get covered in the non-Jewish media. This article gives a summery: What Another Round of Netanyahu Will Mean for American Jews

    I'm saying that I don't think it bothered American Jews who would have voted for Sanders in the primaries. I'm not saying it wouldn't effect him in the general election. I agree with your other points, but I think Jewish Democrats have reasons they support Biden over Sanders that are closer to home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  6. #126

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I didn't notice any negative reaction to it in any Jewish media, but here's what he specifically said:

    If left wing American Jews take it as a criticism of Netanyahu and specifically the Netanyahu government, I can't really see them taking it badly, considering they tend to have a great deal of disdain for him themselves. Not a scientific survey, but my Facebook feed is full of Jews talkin crap about Netanyahu. They have a lot of issues with the current government that don't tend get covered in the non-Jewish media. This article gives a summery: What Another Round of Netanyahu Will Mean for American Jews

    I'm saying that I don't think it bothered American Jews who would have voted for Sanders in the primaries. I'm not saying it wouldn't effect him in the general election. I agree with your other points, but I think Jewish Democrats have reasons they support Biden over Sanders that are closer to home.
    I was misinformed on what Sanders said. What he said seemed reasonable,and a lot of Jews would agree with what he said. That said, it will still hurt Sanders chances that is that he is perceived by the regular Democrat party regulars as being an outsider, and not really a Democrat. The would, of course, prefer Sanders to Trump or any Republican, but I think these party regulars would prefer a more true blue Democrat like Biden, than Sanders, who seems be be a Democrat solely because it is easier to get elected that way. Since many primaries are open, it might not matter what the Democrat party regulars think, but unless Sanders can pull in a lot of independents into the Democrat primary to vote, I don't see his chances as being very good.

  7. #127
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I wonder if the release of the video on Sanders' honeymoon trip will help or hinder him in pursuit of the nomination? From Politico:


    But that’s only the beginning. The hours of footage include a scene of Sanders sitting with his delegation at a table under a portrait of Vladimir Lenin. Sanders can also be heard extolling the virtues of Soviet life and culture, even as he acknowledges some of their shortcomings. There are flashes of humor, too, such as his host warning the American guests not to cross the KGB, or else.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...vealed-1330347

    That was only a snip of the article. Just a tease. Please read the full article at the link.

    Also Kamala Harris is clueless on what here job should be if she were President:

    Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday announced that, if she is elected president, she will ban the importation of all AR-15 style assault weapons by executive action if Congress fails to act in the first 100 days of her administration.

    Harris made the announcement at a campaign stop in New Hampshire.
    "Assault weapons are designed to kill a lot of people in a very short period of time," Harris said.
    "I think that this has got to be something that is understood, that we cannot any longer afford to allow people to make this a partisan issue," Harris added. "Those guns, those assault weapons, do not discriminate and determine, 'OK, is the person pointing it at, is it a Democrat or Republican.' "
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/polit...ban/index.html

    I suppose it is somehow different if a Republican gives executive orders bypassing Congress. But it is different if a Democratic Party member were to do so. Also a bit of ends justify the means style of leadership as well. I was not really interested, but with this bit.... Yes, she is now off any list of real potentials I could be at all interested in.

    So who will be attracted to consider support for Kamala?

  8. #128
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post

    Also Kamala Harris is clueless on what here job should be if she were President:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/15/polit...ban/index.html

    I suppose it is somehow different if a Republican gives executive orders bypassing Congress. But it is different if a Democratic Party member were to do so. Also a bit of ends justify the means style of leadership as well. I was not really interested, but with this bit.... Yes, she is now off any list of real potentials I could be at all interested in.

    So who will be attracted to consider support for Kamala?
    Clueless about firearms as well ...

    the AR15 itself is an American made weapon. No import ban would do anything. Similar assault rifles are usually imported in parts since the original recievers that allow for automatic fire are usually destroyed so that american built replicas which only allow for semi-automatic single shot fire can be built in. Reason is automatic weapons are effectively banned in the US, exception are any that were registered before the law was enacted in 1986. Meaning again a ban on imports would do nothing.

  9. #129

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    I wonder if the release of the video on Sanders' honeymoon trip will help or hinder him in pursuit of the nomination? From Politico:


    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...vealed-1330347

    That was only a snip of the article. Just a tease. Please read the full article at the link.
    Like the part you left out where he was hardly the only Mayor trying to establish a sister city at that time? So...utterly...damning. To you.
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  10. #130

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    De Blasio enters the race which increasingly looks like a freak show. It seems like ''creepy'' Joe Biden will have an easy ride this time. I actually think he'll beat Trump, considering the latter has forsaken his activist base to go with Kushner. If so, America is unsalvageable.

  11. #131
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Who is De Blasio? When did Trump drop his activist base?
    I am not sure Trump would lose. His base is concrete still. After all, the opposite side does nothing to entice them instead points the finger at them and calls them names frankly giving no alternative to 40% of the vote.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  12. #132

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    The crazy Mayor of New York.

  13. #133
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Dude, do I have to google him? Couldn't someone post a few things about him? What makes him insane for those that dislike him? What makes him awesome for those that support him? Does he have many scandals? Does he have many sandals?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  14. #134

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Ahah sorry. This article makes an ok summary:

    https://reason.com/2019/02/12/nyc-mayor-bill-de-blasio-mulling-preside/


    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Who is De Blasio? When did Trump drop his activist base?
    I am not sure Trump would lose. His base is concrete still. After all, the opposite side does nothing to entice them instead points the finger at them and calls them names frankly giving no alternative to 40% of the vote.
    As for Trump, social media companies have been purging many of the commentators that helped him get elected, last being Paul Joseph Watson, without any reason to do so. Candace Owens is next as it has been revealed Facebook has her as a high profile target and is looking for reasons to remove her. Google search engine in the meanwhile has actively changed its display results and pushes exclusively extremist liberal content like ''rationalwiki'' on the first page. It's actually ironic because Soros had complained about Google and Facebook in his Davos speech and now they are complying with his Orwellian agenda.

    The suppression of core pro-Trump commentators leaves only nominally conservative voices in the field, which have lost under McCain, lost under Romney and lost to Trump in 2016. A losing platform will keep losing.

    Trump has done absolutely nothing to help people who helped his ass, just like he's a failure on immigration. 2016 saw a huge grass roots movement to get him elected. There's nothing like that right now, because the voices have been silenced. Biden will get elected under the ''we removed Trump, business as usual'' agenda that from Bill Clinton and GHW Bush has been ruining the country. It'll get worse, then they'll elect an illiterate nutjob extremist like Ocasio-Cortez after that and the country will turn into Brazil. Just like Brazil, they'll have to pick the military to clean up the mess.
    Last edited by Basil II the B.S; May 19, 2019 at 03:55 AM.

  15. #135
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    You're too pessimistic. While Social Media have knocked out a few such persons, others are raising to take their place. The vast majority of Republicans are happy with Trump. You call him a failure in immigration and perhaps many share these thoughts. But whom would they vote for when it is Trump or "Democrat"? Between under-delivering (for some Republicans) Trump and a Democrat, they would vote for Trump.

    And then, there's the boooooooming economy. It's also that the world hasn't stopped as some of us (including me) were afraid of since the Founding Fathers were apparently smart enough to put checks and balances so Trump hasn't nuked Sweden because the country sounded funny nor sent political opponents to prison - I understand you would love to see Hilary and Bill and the Bush brothers in prison, but the vast majority didn't want a dictator.

    AOC has her time in the spotlight and her months of fame, but as soon as she breaks away from the grace period and the crap she suggests comes to bite other people on the butt or when her positions are exposed for the rubbish it is, she will lose the elections. Whatmore, AOC may try her hand as a mayor of NYC or governor of New York and then we will see how many apples the sack can carry before the bubble bursts.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 19, 2019 at 04:05 AM.
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  16. #136

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    What if Hillary has committed crimes?
    Booming economy isn't enough, demographics count. Look at Texas in 2018. O'Rourke almost beat Cruz. In Texas. A state that culturally and historically is a conservative stronghold. Why? Hispanic immigration. This is the same thing that happened in California. A conservative stronghold that has been turned into a liberal stronghold after Reagan foolishly passed an amnesty act and the state went from majority white to white minority in few decades. Now the elections there are between far left and the left. The middle class is vanishing. There are only ultra rich wh*te liberals and ultra poor Hispanics. They pass dumb legislation all the time and that's their model for the whole country. Once Texas is lost, the country is lost, because Texas is the second biggest when it comes to the electoral college, after indeed California.

    Why do you think Dems have been chanting since Obama ''there's not going to be another Republican President again?''

  17. #137
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    What if Hillary has committed crimes?
    Prove it.
    Because countless Republican committees didn't. Same as the witch-hunt on Trump won't prove anything with Russia - he did some very shady things that are not illegal and his people did some illegal things but they are not Trump.

    Even if Republicans lose a couple of elections, is not the end of the world. If they try to push the policies of California on the rest of the USA, they will get wrecked in the elections when those things bite. What makes you think that a "Texican" would support illegal immigration? Same with Hispanics in California. Once they reach the middle class and they start getting hit by the idiotic policies their parents voted for they will change their tune.

    Will it be like the 80s? No. But it won't be the socialist-progressive hell you are afraid of. There will be an amalgamation, correction and then something new once the dust settles. And then something else will upset the balance. Cause that's how the world is.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  18. #138

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    We have to wait for Trump to actually start a legit investigation for that. More reasons to be unhappy with him.

    As for the rest, I'd never risk a Dem takeover of the country and California-style politicies for 4-8 years. The whole argument ''you can always vote them out'' isn't worth seeing your country ruined for that time period. And there's no guarantee you can vote them out, because they have shown plenty of their totalitarian tendencies. You can't even trust the justice system anymore, see the Jussie Smollett case.

  19. #139
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    As for the rest, I'd never risk a Dem takeover of the country and California-style politicies for 4-8 years.
    I can't blame you for that.
    I don't think it will be California-style idiocy for the rest of the nation but your job as a citizen is to push for what you think best within the law ( and the ToS in here <=== not said as moderator)
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  20. #140

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    We have to wait for Trump to actually start a legit investigation for that. More reasons to be unhappy with him.

    As for the rest, I'd never risk a Dem takeover of the country and California-style politicies for 4-8 years. The whole argument ''you can always vote them out'' isn't worth seeing your country ruined for that time period. And there's no guarantee you can vote them out, because they have shown plenty of their totalitarian tendencies. You can't even trust the justice system anymore, see the Jussie Smollett case.
    This is a classic case of you not knowing how the government works. I mean, you're making a decent case ironically for throwing the Electoral College out. But as voters age, and new voters get old enough to vote, demographics change. That is really what let O'Rourke beat Cruz. Because for the past two presidential elections the state has been trending from Red to Pink. It's hard to beat a skewed Electoral College, but at any election done a district or state can throw their Senator or Representative out on their ass. And we've seen how the Legislature can either turn their Capitol into a highway or into molasses, at their whim. Both for Trump and for Obama. Back to Texas. It's not about the hispanics. Not completely about the hispanics anyway. It's about the next generation of voters actually being interested and believe it or not, polling says 38% says climate change is a very important issue. And when the party you say you'd vote for puts in a President outright dismisses a report from his own government on the climate because it doesn't say what he wants? These agencies aren't here to write reports that the President wants. They're here to write true reports off the data. Appointed political directors, appointed Secretaries, and elected officials can dick around with it from there. Up to and including the President saying he doesn't care.

    Well, party-wise, the rest, as they say, is history.
    Last edited by Gaidin; May 19, 2019 at 07:51 AM.
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