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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #101
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    And is any of that illegal?
    Surely something a thorough investigation would resolve, I'm sure you would agree.

    Or is it only okay if you're a Republican?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54
    Republicans really need to step up their game. By this time last election they were already accusing Clinton of eating the flesh of sacrificed children in black magic rituals.
    Yawn
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  2. #102

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    And is any of that illegal? Or is it only okay if you're a Republican?
    I don't recall Trump backing violent coups in foreign countries and assigning his children to run energy companies there like it is some kind of medieval fief they get to give to their children.
    Republicans really need to step up their game. By this time last election they were already accusing Clinton of eating the flesh of sacrificed children in black magic rituals.
    Nah, plus they didn't even have to - Clinton's past deeds, as well as bad optics (specifically her inability to speak in public and charisma of rancid bowel movement) is what did cost her the election. If GOP gave the ticket to Harambe instead of Trump, she'd still lose.
    As for Biden, he also has plenty of bad luggage which is also combined with his image of creepy sex offender uncle. At this point Dems should just give nomination to Sanders. He is economically illiterate, but at least he doesn't have ties to war-happy administration and doesn't have Internet full of pictures of himself acting creepy around women.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't recall Trump backing violent coups in foreign countries and assigning his children to run energy companies there like it is some kind of medieval fief they get to give to their children.
    Did Venezuela suddenly stop existing?
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  4. #104

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    So democratic vagueries aside, we're all aware of the Primary Debate rules this election. Candidates must receive donations from 65,000 unique people, or must register greater than 1% in three separate polls(foot quote). Only polls from preset organizations are accepted and a candidate cannot count a poll from the same pollster in the same place. Their is a self-imposed limit of 20 candidates for the debates, and 18 candidates have reached those requirements. The debates will be held over two nights, the same questions asked on each night, with spots to be randomly assigned.

    Who’s qualified by both polling and donors:

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)
    Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.)
    Former Vice President Joe Biden (D)
    Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D) of South Bend, Indiana
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)
    Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.)
    Former Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-Texas)
    Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii)
    Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.)
    Former Obama housing chief Julián Castro (D)
    Businessman Andrew Yang (D)

    Who’s qualified just by polls:

    Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.)
    Washington Gov. Jay Inslee (D)
    Former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper (D)
    Former Rep. John Delaney (D-Md.)
    Rep. Tim Ryan (D-Ohio)
    Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.)

    Who’s qualified just by donors:

    Author Marianne Williamson

    Who has not qualified by either metric yet:

    Mayor Wayne Messam (D) of Miramar, Florida
    Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.)
    Former Sen. Mike Gravel (D-Alaska)
    Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.)

    • Polling Method: Register 1% or more support in three polls (which may be national polls, or polls in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and/or Nevada) publicly released between January 1, 2019, and 14 days prior to the date of the Organization Debate. Qualifying polls will be limited to those sponsored by one or more of the following organizations/institutions:Associated Press, ABC News, CBS News, CNN, Des Moines Register, Fox News, Las Vegas Review Journal, Monmouth University, NBC News, New York Times, National Public Radio (NPR), Quinnipiac University, Reuters, University of New Hampshire, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Washington Post, Winthrop University. Any candidate’s three qualifying polls must be conducted by different organizations, or if by the same organization, must be in different geographical areas.
    • If more than 20 candidates qualify for the debate, the top 20 candidates will be selected using a methodology that gives primacy to candidates meeting both thresholds, followed by the highest polling average, followed by the most unique donors.
    Last edited by Gaidin; May 12, 2019 at 12:13 PM.
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  5. #105

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Did Venezuela suddenly stop existing?
    The coup there failed precisely due to lack of outside support and I doubt Pence would assign his children to take over energy companies there even if it did.

  6. #106
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The coup there failed precisely due to lack of outside support and I doubt Pence would assign his children to take over energy companies there even if it did.
    Fair enough, the administration's support was more moral than material.
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  7. #107
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Sanders...He's as left as the hard core of the Communist Party of...
    Sanders is not communist.He has an universalistic approach to a diverse democracy.He merely wants a more human version of the capitalism.Obviously, Sanders may come into conflict with Biden on trade, health care,Wall Street and Palestine.
    Catholics and Evangelicals will vote for Biden.Jewish voters overwhelmingly prefer Biden ("Send a message to Bibi, I love him", he said recently). Sanders is politically finished, caput. He said that “Israel is run by a racist government” and called for "a level playing field" between Israel and the Palestinians.
    In the end, Trump will win.
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  8. #108
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't recall Trump backing violent coups in foreign countries and assigning his children to run energy companies there like it is some kind of medieval fief they get to give to their children.
    Venezuela. Plus Syria and Iraq where the USA backed forces were also violent and did countless crimes too.
    Jarred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Sanders is not communist. He has an universalistic approach to a diverse democracy. He merely wants a more human version of the capitalism.
    Sanders is not a communist because he is not authoritarian. I have tried to clarify that I talk about his approach to the economy and worker rights. His stance is far left he just doesn't want society to head that way through the same oppressive means and authoritarian measures used by far-leftwings and communists historically.

    Sanders doesn't want re-education camps or Gulags or a secret police silencing dissidents. But he is still far-left. The communist leaders of USSR were just bad people with far leftwing ideas.

    In the end, Trump will win.
    Quite possible if the democrats keep being divided or alienating moderates.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 15, 2019 at 02:51 PM.
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  9. #109

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Did Venezuela suddenly stop existing?

    I don't recall Trump sending in the troops to Venezuela, can you provide the news article where that happened. Where has Trump thrown journalist into jail, or blocked internet access to Wikipedia in all languages? Or where has banned opposition partiez from running?

    Look it, you may not like Trump, but that does not make Maduo correct. Or Trump wrong in every single time. If any non leftist government had done what Maduro had done, wouldn't you be calling on the US to use its influence to get them removed. Or are you naive enough to believe Maduro's lies? Sorry, it wasn't Trump who trashed Venezuela's economy, and it was Venezuela Tha jailed reporters, blocked internet, and banned political opponents.

    Venezuela has banned political opponents from running, has practices censorship of the press, all the things the left would have decried if a conservative government had done them, but since Venezuela is a leftist country is ok? T

  10. #110

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Jewish voters overwhelmingly prefer Biden ("Send a message to Bibi, I love him", he said recently). Sanders is politically finished, caput. He said that “Israel is run by a racist government” and called for "a level playing field" between Israel and the Palestinians.
    Damn man, not everything is about Jews. Plus, you know, Jews don't actually unilaterally decide who is going to be president.

    I did notice the implication that Jewish Democrats decide who they're going to vote for strictly based on which candidate is most pro-Israel. That's weird though, because you were just clarifying that you only consider Orthodox Jews part of the more loyal to Israel unassimilated segregationist hivemind. I assume you know non-Haredi Orthodox Jews are only about 4% of the Jewish American population, and tend vote Republican anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  11. #111

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Damn man, not everything is about Jews. Plus, you know, Jews don't actually unilaterally decide who is going to be president.
    If they did I suspect they'd choose Sanders: he is ethnically Jewish after all.

  12. #112

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    If they did I suspect they'd choose Sanders: he is ethnically Jewish after all.
    I've read that Biden is polling a lot better with Jewish Democrats. Although I imagine a lot of Jewish Democrats actually share more of Sanders view of Israel than Biden's, because a lot of them are very critical of the Netanyahu government. Most probably don't see either candidate as bad for Israel, and shockingly, a fair amount of them don't care either way. There are a couple of reasons I think they'd prefer Biden on average though. Despite the radical leftist Jewish stereotype, which isn't based on nothing, I'd say the majority of American Jews are politically liberal but a bit conservative in their personal choices, making them basically center left. The other reason is more apparent when you look at their median income. From an economic self-interest standpoint, Sanders' policies likely won't benefit most of them, but will certainly cut into their income.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #113

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    I've read that Biden is polling a lot better with Jewish Democrats. Although I imagine a lot of Jewish Democrats actually share more of Sanders view of Israel than Biden's, because a lot of them are very critical of the Netanyahu government. Most probably don't see either candidate as bad for Israel, and shockingly, a fair amount of them don't care either way. There are a couple of reasons I think they'd prefer Biden on average though. Despite the radical leftist Jewish stereotype, which isn't based on nothing, I'd say the majority of American Jews are politically liberal but a bit conservative in their personal choices, making them basically center left. The other reason is more apparent when you look at their median income. From an economic self-interest standpoint, Sanders' policies likely won't benefit most of them, but will certainly cut into their income.
    Biden is polling better than Sanders full stop. It turns out that the vocal social media activists who favour Sanders' more socialist approach aren't as representative of the Democratic base as they'd like the party to believe. Unless something dramatic occurs in the near future, I don't see anything other than a Biden candidacy.

  14. #114

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Damn man, not everything is about Jews. Plus, you know, Jews don't actually unilaterally decide who is going to be president.

    I did notice the implication that Jewish Democrats decide who they're going to vote for strictly based on which candidate is most pro-Israel.
    I noticed you missed this, but it's awkwardly easy to win key primary states with their votes. It's not about winning the presidency yet. Slow your rants down there.
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  15. #115

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I noticed you missed this, but it's awkwardly easy to win key primary states with their votes. It's not about winning the presidency yet. Slow your rants down there.
    I don't have any issue with reasonable and informed observations about key demographics.

    In contrast, the logic of the post I was responding to would suggest most Jews would be Trump supporters rather than voting in the Democratic primaries.
    Last edited by sumskilz; May 15, 2019 at 05:07 PM. Reason: missing key word
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  16. #116
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    If they did I suspect they'd choose Sanders: he is ethnically Jewish after all.
    The Jewish ethnicity / culture argument is pretty meaningless for all candidates. If that were true, then let's just leave the nomination process restricted to only black voters. See how this works? Yeah, it does not work.

    It is not that I dislike Bernie as a US Senator, but I fail to see how he can be at all qualified to perform the job as the chief executive. In Colorado we have the potential of a favorite son in our ex-governor Hickenlooper. He has a record as a chief executive, but he punted on the job when when decided not to decide on an execution. He simply left it up to the next governor!

    Where Colorado's Governor Candidates Stand On Nathan Dunlap ...

    https://www.cpr.org/.../where-colorado-s-governor-candidates-stand-on-nathan-dunla...





    Nov 2, 2018 - John Hickenlooper halted the execution of Nathan Dunlap but did not grany him clemency. He left it to the next governor to ultimately decide ...
    Biden is probably a safe choice for 2020 for the Democratic Party, but I wonder if he is the only candidate with executive credentials of some value? There do seem to be others that may also be safer choices. Remember, that any candidate the Democratic Party picks will need a campaign that is effective against a sitting incumbent with experience. The attack on Trump will need to center on his chief executive actions and not on personal distaste for twitter or other media bunk.

  17. #117

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Sanders is not communist.He has an universalistic approach to a diverse democracy.He merely wants a more human version of the capitalism.Obviously, Sanders may come into conflict with Biden on trade, health care,Wall Street and Palestine.
    Catholics and Evangelicals will vote for Biden.Jewish voters overwhelmingly prefer Biden ("Send a message to Bibi, I love him", he said recently). Sanders is politically finished, caput. He said that “Israel is run by a racist government” and called for "a level playing field" between Israel and the Palestinians.
    In the end, Trump will win.
    Calling Israel run by racist will finish Sanders. He could have criticized the policies of Israel without using a perjorative word like 'racist'. The word too many reveals what they considered Sanders real radical motivation they knew he had. Racist is a perjorative word, with a lot of negative connotations, and Sanders use of it shows poor judgment. Criticizing Israel at all in the US is difficult in either party, the subject of Israel is an emotional one for the majority of US, , but your resort to name calling, your are dooming your chances.

    Trump will likely get re-elected because the economy is doing well, and in the last hundred years, Americans have shown that tend to re-election a President of either party if the economy is doing reasonably well. Since the economy seems to bring doing well, that favors Trump. Still, it depends on the Democratic candidate,. A popular, energetic ic candidate might pull an upset. The media is dead set against Trump, so who ever is he Deomcratic candidate they will have the media solidly in their corner. Of course, I don't think the influence of the mdeia is as great as it once was, since more and more Americans don't trust the media, and get theirinformation from non traditional sources. Trump managed to get elected in thr first place despite the opposition of the mainstream media. Of course, he was running against Hillary Clinton, who was intensely disliked in a line to quarters, many who voted for Obama could not bring themselves to vote Hillary Clinton
    .

    The Democrats best shot would be to elsct someone like Biden, of n my view, who doesn't seem as extreme Sanders. If the.economy tanks, especially because of the trade war Trump started with China, then the Democrats will have a good shot at winning.

  18. #118
    NorseThing's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    The economy will not be tanking, but a decline is probably going to be beginning prior to the election. This also a risk when a bad economy is turning around :Great Recession - Wikipedia

    Obama had the benefit of a turnaround that was not really noticed by the voters until after his election over Bush. We oversold the issue of the recession and undersold when the turnaround would happen. My guess is there may be a downturn that may not get noticed until after the 2020 election. This is a good reason to vote for people rather than for general perceived economic conditions.

    FDR won his first time mostly because he was not the President, but he was just as clueless as Hoover was on how to fix the economy. In the end, war fixed the economy while FDR simply tried differing strategies that did nothing of substance. He still gets the credit and Hoover still gets the blame. I do not really disagree with booting Hoover, because he was clueless on how to fix the economy. I probably would have voted for FDR if I was around that long ago as well.

    On the matter of that 'great recession', I believe trade imbalances were a huge part of why it was so severe (not the trigger though, blame the bankers for the trigger). Pres. Trump is well aware of this as far back as his and Perot's opposition to NAFTA> This is probably why he is fighting the fair trade mantra with his tariffs. Unless we have a better balance of trade, there can be another recession as severe as that last one. The Democrats need to recognize this and campaign appropriately.

    So which candidates are advocating a better balance to our trade? None, I believe. I find this not so encouraging.

    Edit: Two more with executive credentials in the race:

    New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, who was widely known to be mulling a White House run, will announce on Thursday that he is officially entering the 2020 race, a source familiar with the situation told Fox News.
    De Blasio will make the announcement in a Thursday morning video followed by an appearance on ABC News' "Good Morning America," the source said.


    The mayor would be the 23rd Democrat vying for the presidency, following Montana Gov. Steve Bullock, who announced Tuesday that he's seeking the presidential nomination.
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nyc...sidential-race

    Read the full article at the link.

  19. #119

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Even with a downturn Trump will likely survive, especially if Biden continues to run on dumb issues like free healthcare for illegal immigrants. In a “top 50 issues a person is considering for their presidential candidate”, Id be surprised if “guaranteed health care for illegals” makes the list.

  20. #120
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Where does Biden support free healthcare for illegal immigrants?

    In the UK illegal immigrants get free healthcare I believe, I may be wrong, but if true it’s truly tragic.
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