USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

[Heathen Hammer]

More claims and assertions from you, same refusal to provide any evidence for them at all, let alone “credible” evidence.

Sigh. Dude, I haven't made a claim. I just commented on the lack of credible sources in your argument, and all you did in reply was "no you", which didn't even make any sense, since I haven't made a claim to begin with. Its almost like you are arguing for sake of having "last word" in a debate or something.

Anyways, back to actual on-topic discussion:
Bloomberg stated that its good to tax poor people, since they'd have less money to spend on things that would kill them.

This is something one would hear from some medieval baron talking about peasants. Such attitudes are unacceptable, and the fact that democrats tolerate this buffoon instead of immediately denouncing his views as unacceptable speaks a lot about moral fabric of Democratic party.

[Lord Thesaurian]

*makes claims, denies having made any claims

It’s ok that you have unfounded personal opinions. You needn’t lie about others in the process.

[Heathen Hammer]

It’s ok that you have unfounded personal opinions. You needn’t lie about others in the process.

Which claim did I make? Again, your post is nonsensical ad hominem attack that completely ignores the nature of dicussion.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Which claim did I make? Again, your post is nonsensical ad hominem attack that completely ignores the nature of dicussion.

You claimed “the US is not under attack from anyone” and dismissed intelligence to the contrary as not credible because people working for US intelligence agencies are akin to parasites and Nazis. So I said (originally posted in the wrong thread, gloat all you want):

You can either
1. Back up your claim that the people working for US intelligence agencies are akin to parasites and Nazis and are therefore inherently not credible
2. Admit that’s just your personal opinion and move on.

[irontaino]

LMAO US is not under attack from anyone.

*Yawns*
You cited government officials that directly benefit from public believing in what they said and, as usual, with 0 hard evidence for their claims. Its like saying that tobacco is good for you, because tobacco company PR team said so.

HH, when you say you never made a claim, you realize people have eyes and can look a few pages back in the thread, yes?

[Heathen Hammer]

You claimed “the US is not under attack from anyone”

Common fact, doesn't count as claim.

and dismissed intelligence to the contrary as not credible because people working for US intelligence agencies are akin to parasites and Nazis.

You need to look up what word "analogy" means, my dude.

HH, when you say you never made a claim, you realize people have eyes and can look a few pages back in the thread, yes?

And the posts you quoted are me commenting on his source being insufficient and biased and I explained why. Is defending globalist "spreading of democracy" really a good hill to die for?

[Ludicus]

T

Thank you for the good reads, my friend. As we often do, I’ll agree to disagree. Constructive dialogue between nations is great. US-China dialogue has acknowledged the dangers of a thucydides trap for example, and it’s positive to see both sides are at least generally aware of the risks. De-escalating the US’ Cold War model of regime change and dominance around the world can be a positive step all around if executed properly. I simply do not trust Sanders to do so while protecting American interests as POTUS, given his worldview and comments on foreign policy.

Yes, I guess we can just agree to disagree ...but I always appreciate hearing your views and thoughts, Legio. You're a true democrat.
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Bernie, on anti-Semitism and Israel Fighting antisemitism is at the heart of the left's struggle ...

The quest to find Joe Biden's young supporters – do they exist?

A recent poll showed that only 2% of 18- to 29-year-olds in Iowa, the first state to vote in the Democratic primary, support the former vice-president.
The Guardian spent two days following Biden to campaign events in New Hampshire, looking for young supporters. If they exist, they aren’t coming to see him in droves.
The majority of the young people present were either employed by the Biden campaign or had some sort of fellowship with the campaign. They had been told they weren’t allowed to speak to journalists. This isn’t normal.

No, its not normal.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Common fact, doesn't count as claim.

It is a claim. Your assertion that it is a “common fact” is functionally meaningless. You should provide sources for your claim, especially if you intend to use that claim to attack others.

You need to look up what word "analogy" means, my dude.

Your “analogies” do not establish your claims as fact, no matter how ardently you insist otherwise.

[Heathen Hammer]

Bernie, on anti-Semitism and Israel Fighting antisemitism is at the heart of the left's struggle ...

That's rich from a politician, whose followers get red eyes and start foaming from their mouth when they see flag of Israel.

It is a claim. Your assertion that it is a “common fact” is functionally meaningless.

It is when US has objectively strongest military in the world and is surrounded by states fundamentally incapable of invading it. And oceans. You were the one who claimed that US is victim of Sino-Russian conspiracy, burden of proof is on you.

Your “analogies” do not establish your claims as fact, no matter how ardently you insist otherwise.

I don't think you understand how this works. Or you are just arguing in bad faith since it has been 3 pages and I'm yet to hear an on-topic argument from you.

[Lord Thesaurian]

It is when US has objectively strongest military in the world and is surrounded by states fundamentally incapable of invading it. And oceans.

You claimed the US is not under attack from anyone. Your above statement is irrelevant to and not evidentiary of your claim.

You can either
1. Back up your claim that the people working for US intelligence agencies are akin to parasites and Nazis and are therefore inherently not credible
2. Admit that’s just your personal opinion and move on.

You were the one who claimed that US is victim of Sino-Russian conspiracy, burden of proof is on you.

What claim did I make that you would like me to cite? Quote me. That’s how this works.

I don't think you understand how this works. Or you are just arguing in bad faith since it has been 3 pages and I'm yet to hear an on-topic argument from you.

The only one acting in bad faith is you. It’s why you never cite or evidence your claims. You troll post to attack things you disagree with, then retreat to “but I haven’t made any claims” when cornered. Yours is the epitome of cowardly, bad faith argumentation. I have constructive discussions with people I disagree with on this forum all the time, provided they present an actual argument based on sourced points of fact. You refuse to do so, either because you can’t, or because you know that doing so will expose your right wing fashy xenophobic isolationist schtick for the utter fraud that it is.

[Heathen Hammer]

Your above statement is irrelevant to and not evidentiary of your claim.

It literally as as it does demonstrate the paranoid Rusophobic ramblings as non-factual.

What claim did I make that you would like me to cite? Quote me. That’s how this works.

Where you claimed US is a victim of some Sino-Russian conspiracy. I'd like to see real proof for that.

It’s why you never cite or evidence your claims. Y

Which claim did I make? Again, more nonsensical ad hominems and no real evidence or sources. Typical.

[Lord Thesaurian]

It literally as as it does demonstrate the paranoid Rusophobic ramblings as non-factual.

Where you claimed US is a victim of some Sino-Russian conspiracy. I'd like to see real proof for that.

Which claim did I make? Again, more nonsensical ad hominems and no real evidence or sources. Typical.

Again, you can either quote which claim of mine you’d like me to cite and go from there, or you can continue to insist your opinions are facts just because you say so.

[Ludicus]

"If We Win They Can't Act Like We Don't Exist": Bernie Sanders ...

A supporter of Bernie sees to her right an approaching man who will proceed to use his body and hands to block her from getting her message out to viewers of MSNBC.
Scroll down to see the video, its hilarious.It looks like a tango

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The media isn't even hiding its anti-Bernie Blackout. #bernieblackout hashtag on Twitter

Bernie, who is Bernie? Bernie Sanders Tops New California Poll—But You Wouldn't ...

A new poll released Thursday found that Sen. Bernie Sanders is leading the 2020 Democratic presidential field in California—but you wouldn't have known it by reading the Los Angeles Times' original headline on the survey, which mentioned Sen. Elizabeth Warren and former Vice President Joe Biden, but not the senator from Vermont.
While the Times changed its headline, it did not alter the body of the story, which doesn't mention Sanders until the third paragraph.

Bernie also now leads in the key early state of New Hampshire,New Hampshire 2020: Sanders jumps to lead, Buttigieg
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Edit,
The Intercept has hardened its position vis a vis Biden.
Joe Biden Won't Admit His Son's Ukraine Work Was Wrong -The Intercept

Video of the exchange went viral as it was shared by Biden’s critics on both the right — where it was used to question his temperament — and the left, where the incident was added to an increasingly long list of times the candidate has yelled at voters who challenged him.

...But another part of Biden’s answer, his bizarre claim that “no one has said my son did anything wrong,” deserves more attention. This sweeping denial suggests that the former vice president is still unwilling to accept what even some of his supporters have admitted: that his son did something legal but unethical by taking money to help launder the reputation of a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch.

The answer Biden gave on Thursday echoed his reply to a question about his son’s work in Ukraine in the Democratic primary debate in October, when he was asked by Anderson Cooper about his announcement “that if you’re president, no one in your family or associated with you will be involved in any foreign businesses.”

“My question is,” Cooper asked Biden, “if it’s not okay for a president’s family to be involved in foreign businesses, why was it okay for your son when you were vice president?”
“Look,” Biden replied, “my son did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong.”

Biden’s inability to craft a better answer to questions about his son’s work in Ukraine is particularly striking.

Speaking to ABC News last month, Hunter Biden admitted that Burisma would “probably not” have hired him in the first place had he not been the son of the vice president at the time.

Of course, as my colleague Ryan Grim observed in October, even if the Biden family is not as comically corrupt as the Trumps, “a review of Hunter Biden’s career shows clearly that he, along with Joe Biden’s brother James, has been trading on their family name for decades, cashing in on the implication — and sometimes the explicit argument — that giving money to a member of Joe Biden’s family wins the favor of Joe Biden.”

[Dr. Croccer]

https://firehousestrategies.com/analysis/december_2019_battleground_survey/]According to a poll[/url], Trump scores significantly higher over Democrat candidates in key 2016 swing states that were comfortably Democrat before then, increasing his narrow victory margins in the presidential election to comfortable majorities. More strikingly, Biden's popular support has crashed over the last year:



Firehouse is a fairly right-leaning think tank, so take it with as much salt as you like. However, I can definitely see impeachment fatigue backfiring on the Democrats if this continues to drag on into another nothingburger. In related news, Hillary Clinton is scoring higher among Democrats than any of the Primary candidates. This is not a good sign for them, as it says more about how unpopular the line-up is than it does about how much people love Hilldawg.

[Roma_Victrix]

That's rich from a politician, whose followers get red eyes and start foaming from their mouth when they see flag of Israel.

I certainly don't get riled up on that issue. Sanders himself said in the last debate he is pro-Israel but wants the international political dialogue to acknowledge the humanity and suffering of the Palestinian people living under a blockade. Seems like a reasonable enough stance to me. I think most Sanders supporters, who have firsthand experience with the horrors of our present health insurance industry and medical bankruptcies (the only Western country where this happens) just want a healthcare system that resembles that of Canada or various European countries, particularly Scandinavia.

Hell, more in line with the healthcare system of France than even the UK, since Medicare for All is about replacing the price gouging middle man of private health insurance, insuring people simply at the point of service while retaining private practices for doctors. This does not not include government takeovers of hospitals either. The NHS in the UK literally enforces a government monopoly over healthcare and ownership/management of hospitals. Therefore Bernie's proposal of M4A isn't even as progressive or radical as the British system, and last I checked they are on average conservative as hell compared to most European countries on various issues (especially immigration).

Therefore, if Bernie is too far left (and not just a champagne socialist), that means the British are frothing at the mouth full blown Marxist communists who own portraits of Lenin and have Che Guevera t-shirts.

Also, FYI, I used to be a grad student in the UK. My hospital visit wasn't the most efficient thing in the universe, but I got help speedily enough and free prescriptions for a serious health issue that would have broken me financially had it occurred in the US, even with regular private health insurance. I'm telling you guys, Bernie is the sleeping dragon in all of this based on basic bread and butter issues, especially after the 2008 financial woes. People know what Medicare is and love it/trust it as much as Social Security (FDR's biggest legacy), another top program in the US in terms of widespread unshakable popularity. That's why he's neck and neck with Joe Biden right now in the latest Iowa Emerson poll.

[swabian]

sorry. please delete.

[swabian]

Glad you are alright. If health care was the only issue, everyone would vote Democratic i suppose. There is only the problem that he himself is quite ancient and nobody votes for a guy who is likely to die any time soon. So my question is: was Sanders actually ever a serious candidate or just a... you know.

[PointOfViewGun]

Glad you are alright. If health care was the only issue, everyone would vote Democratic i suppose. There is only the problem that he himself is quite ancient and nobody votes for a guy who is likely to die any time soon. So my question is: was Sanders actually ever a serious candidate or just a... you know.

Sanders is 78. Biden is 76. Warren is 70. If Sanders is too old, so are the other candidates.

[Ludicus]

One of the most cited scholars alive in the past 20 years,- "Chomsky Citation Champ" - Noam Chomsky on Bernie's chances of success.



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...more in line with the healthcare system of France than even the UK

Rankings are not easy to interpret, but the French healthcare is considered to be one the world's best.
Published in May, 2017 by The Lancet, it looked at 195 countries, the UK was ranked 26th, while France came in 15th.
Healthcare Access and Quality Index based on mortality from causes amenable to personal health care in 195 countries and territories, 1990–2015: a novel analysis from the Global Burden of Disease Study 2015 Link

France: Health System Review. - NCBI 2015

Abstract
This analysis of the French health system reviews recent developments in organization and governance, health financing, health care provision, health reforms and health system performance.
The French population has a good level of health, with the second highest life expectancy in the world for women.

It has a high level of choice of providers, and a high level of satisfaction with the health system. However, unhealthy habits such as smoking and harmful alcohol consumption remain significant causes of avoidable mortality. Combined with the significant burden of chronic diseases, this has underscored the need for prevention and integration of services, although these have not historically been strengths of the French system.

Although the French healthcare system is a social insurance system, it has historically had a stronger role for the state than other Bismarckian social insurance systems. Public financing of health care expenditure is among the highest in Europe and out-of-pocket spending among the lowest.

Public insurance is compulsory and covers the resident population; it is financed by employee and employer contributions as well as increasingly through taxation. Complementary insurance plays a significant role in ensuring equity in access.

Provision is mixed; providers of outpatient care are largely private, and hospital beds are predominantly public or private non-profit-making. Despite health outcomes being among the best in the European Union, social and geographical health inequities remain. Inequality in the distribution of health care professionals is a considerable barrier to equity. The rising cost of healthcare and the increasing demand for long-term care are also of concern. Reforms are ongoing to address these issues, while striving for equity in financial access; a long-term care reform including public coverage of long-term care is still pending.

[Ludicus]

double post.