View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

Voters
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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #81
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    In Europe, Bernie would pass for a moderate liberal democrat or at worst a centrist like the old peasant's party. He's not even left enough to be social democrat.
    Please don't use "liberal" for leftwings when you mention Europe as I get confused with the classic liberalism term.

    Regardless, Sanders is far left for Europe too. He's to the left of the rubbish-spewing minor leftwing parties in Europe.

    Again: He wants huge taxes (at least 77% for the very rich and has even floated 90%) and believes nobody should make more than 1M$ - he wouldn't push for that, but he believes it. He believes "too big to fail = too big to exist" which means "Byebye Deutsche bank and HSBC". He believes in strong, very strong unions. He believes in employer-owned business models. He believes in strong government regulations and planned economy instead of free market.
    All in all, he's far left even for Europe. Not the farthest left you can encounter in some parliaments but certainly in the leftmost 5% of Europe as a whole.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  2. #82
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    For a sympathetic view on Bernie: https://www.thenation.com/article/be...-books-review/

    Personally, I think the Presidency is out of Bernie Sanders depth based upon his history, but the Nation's essay is still worth a read.

    And in another corner of the far left: Elizabeth Warren is out of touch with the party if she truly believes the party will nominate any sitting Senator simply by mouthing the that US House must impeach the sitting President. Yet she continues shouting out impeachment: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/eli...ment-mcconnell

    If there were only two choices, I would opt for Bernie Sanders. Fortunately there are maybe 20+ other choices at this time.

  3. #83

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Anyone else surprised that Sanders is polling so low? I figured Biden and him would be neck but polls pointing to a blowout. Sure it's early but Bernie has had four years to lay the ground work

  4. #84

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Anyone else surprised that Sanders is polling so low? I figured Biden and him would be neck but polls pointing to a blowout. Sure it's early but Bernie has had four years to lay the ground work
    The incessant social media activism of the radical wing of Democratic Party has artificially inflated the relevance and popularity of figures like Sanders and Cortez. The majority of Democratic Party voters are much more comfortable with moderates likes Biden.



  5. #85
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Anyone else surprised that Sanders is polling so low? I figured Biden and him would be neck but polls pointing to a blowout. Sure it's early but Bernie has had four years to lay the ground work
    He is not a moderate. He had 30 years to lay out the ground work, which makes him far leftwing. Biden is far more reasonable choice.
    Sanders was the most popular from the randoms and\or far-leftwings that declared. Against a politician that appeals to the beliefs of the silent majority Sanders holds no water.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  6. #86
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    The corruption charges against Biden and his POS son Hunter haven't been widely made yet. We will have to see if he weathers that.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  7. #87
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Europe, they at least let you go for private healthcare. He doesn't want a private option.
    If I recall correctly his option allows for supplementary private insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    Problem with Pete is a similar problem to Harris, Gillibrand, Warren and Booker: pandering. Anytime Sanders comes out with a position, there is a good chance the previously mentioned will support one form of it. Biden can't really do that given that he is running to continue Obama's legacy, not push Sanders' platform
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    pandering
    You gotta give kids what they want. Fortunately for Joe Biden, kids don't have a good voting turnout, at least so far they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    what is it with Maltese and their names?). Which, aside from looking terminally silly on paper and being awkward to pronounce, will inspire a million lame jokes.
    I look forward to, If Mayor Pete wins, of which there is 0.00000078% chance, all the conspiracies about him. I mean, Maltese is derived from Arabic, could Mayor Pete be a crypto-Islamist advancing the Gay Agenda? To me that sounds even more dangerous than Bernard Sanders becoming the chairman of the USSA or Kamala Harris coming to take away my children because they missed some school hours. That said, if I were a Democrat I'd be inching towards Mayor Pete, he, like me, speaks several languages, a clear sign of competence and presidential ability.
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  8. #88

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    What about Mayor Pete? He seems pretty interesting politics-wise, although I think the greatest hindrance for him will be his awful last name (what is it with Maltese and their names?). Which, aside from looking terminally silly on paper and being awkward to pronounce, will inspire a million lame jokes.
    It doesn't really get much better in translation - Buttiġieġ = Abu d-dijāj = "Father of Chickens".

    EDIT: Should be pronounced like "booty judge".
    Last edited by sumskilz; May 08, 2019 at 08:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  9. #89
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Please don't use "liberal" for leftwings when you mention Europe as I get confused with the classic liberalism term.

    Regardless, Sanders is far left for Europe too. He's to the left of the rubbish-spewing minor leftwing parties in Europe.
    I only ever use liberal as the classical right wing ideology. He's to the right of almost everyone in Europe.
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  10. #90
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    I only ever use liberal as the classical right wing ideology. He's to the right of almost everyone in Europe.
    Ehhh... What?
    Sanders wants to expand unions. He wants 77% tax for the super-rich and is open to 90% tax. He wants worker-control businesses. He supports nationalized means of production at least for the basic industries.
    The vast majority of European politicians are to his right. He's as left as the hard core of the Communist Party of Greece and in general more to the left than the declared goals of the Communist party of Greece.
    How could you say that someone that would fit nicely in a communist party's left wing is to the right of mostly everyone?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  11. #91
    B. W.'s Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Rumor has it that Biden has asked Bill Clinton to go on a campaign speaking tour with him. Tentatively, it could be known as the Fondling Fathers Tour.

  12. #92

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    The corruption charges against Biden and his POS son Hunter haven't been widely made yet. We will have to see if he weathers that.
    So what will be the lie this time? Are Republicans going to accuse Biden of being a secret Muslim born in Kenya? How about claiming he's killed thousands of people and "they" don't want you to know it? Or just go with the classic "Something something Soros, something something white genocide"?

  13. #93
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Given how readily people accepted Pizzagate, no lie is too big or small to whip the cultists into a frenzy
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  14. #94
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    So why bring up the past failed social media issues in this thread about the current nomination process for the 2020 election? Even Pizzagate is only an example on why social media is not ever a good source for discussion on this forum. It is not just the Russians that exploit social media, we do it all the time to ourselves with no need for foreign interference.

    Onto more formal media that also acts like social media: https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ling-up-226866

    The presidential run of Beto O’Rourke is a profoundly personality-driven exercise, his charisma and Kennedy-esque demeanor the topic of one profile after another, so it’s surprising to listen to his speeches on the stump in which he doesn’t talk a whole lot about himself. In Iowa recently, over several days in a rainy, foggy, uncertain stretch of spring, O’Rourke delivered a series of speeches and held question-and-answer sessions in which he spoke at length about unity, civility and inclusivity, and only rarely touched on his personal story. There was one notable exception: When he did offer up bits of his biography, he leaned most heavily on his run last year against Ted Cruz for a spot in the United States Senate.
    Get the full article at the above link.

    I am not a fan of Beto, but this Politico piece is lacking in pretty much anything other than opinion. The fact checkers will not find anything to dispute because there are no real facts. Just opinions on how to bend the facts. It is interesting that the 4 page Barr report gets 'fact' checked by nearly every news service ( https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/di...lead-congress/, for example), but I cannot find a single fact checker responding to this hatchet job.

  15. #95
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Why not use past examples as an indicator for what might come next? The country is probably even more polarized now than in 2016 so 2020 ain't gonna be much better. Trump's cultists are just as fanatical as ever, so they'll eat whatever BS he spoonfeeds them and smile.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  16. #96
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Why not use past examples as an indicator for what might come next? The country is probably even more polarized now than in 2016 so 2020 ain't gonna be much better. Trump's cultists are just as fanatical as ever, so they'll eat whatever BS he spoonfeeds them and smile.
    And how are the Trump cultists that different from the failed Hillary cultists or the Bernie Bern cultists or the .... They are all feeding off the social media be it tweets or whatever. If you want 2020 to turn out differently fro the 2016 mess, we need to ween our collective selves off of the social media and insist that the more formal media stop behaving like the social media. Or maybe we need to stop clicking on Politico as well. I simply do not have a good answer, but quoting failed attmepts are probably not a good first step out of this mess.

  17. #97

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I am not a fan of Beto, but this Politico piece is lacking in pretty much anything other than opinion. The fact checkers will not find anything to dispute because there are no real facts. Just opinions on how to bend the facts. It is interesting that the 4 page Barr report gets 'fact' checked by nearly every news service ( https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/di...lead-congress/, for example), but I cannot find a single fact checker responding to this hatchet job.
    That's Politico Magazine. It's mostly just opinion.

    If you want a fact-checker to look at it, you have to be ready to point out something that is untrue or at least a reasonable suspicion. "I don't like it" isn't enough. As for the Barr report, of course fact-checkers were on it. It was a huge deal that had enormous implications for the Trump presidency and the country as a whole.

    Back to Biden, it looks like Giuliani won't be traveling to Ukraine to beg for their help to smear Biden after all:

    Giuliani says he's not going to Ukraine to help Trump after all

    President Donald Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani said Friday that he is no longer planning to travel to Ukraine to urge the president-elect to push forward with investigations that he anticipates could help Trump's re-election campaign.

    Speaking on Fox News to host Shannon Bream, Giuliani said he believes he faced an unspecified political trap if he proceeded with the much-criticized trip that would have focused on an investigation involving former Vice President Joe Biden, who's running for the Democratic presidential nomination.

    "I’m not going to go because I think I’m walking into a group of people that are enemies of the president," Giuliani said on Fox News. " ... I think this was a set-up."

    The trip was revealed in an interview with The New York Times published Thursday. He told the newspaper, "We're not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do."
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; May 11, 2019 at 02:45 AM.

  18. #98

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NorseThing View Post
    Get the full article at the above link.

    I am not a fan of Beto, but this Politico piece is lacking in pretty much anything other than opinion. The fact checkers will not find anything to dispute because there are no real facts. Just opinions on how to bend the facts. It is interesting that the 4 page Barr report gets 'fact' checked by nearly every news service ( https://www.factcheck.org/2019/05/di...lead-congress/, for example), but I cannot find a single fact checker responding to this hatchet job.
    Best place for facts to dig up from politico is their history section. But then, you're not then dealing in current or even the past 3 administrations when you go into that part of the website.
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  19. #99
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    So what will be the lie this time? Are Republicans going to accuse Biden of being a secret Muslim born in Kenya? How about claiming he's killed thousands of people and "they" don't want you to know it? Or just go with the classic "Something something Soros, something something white genocide"?
    Hunter and Daddy go to China, Hunter comes back with a billion dollar equity deal in a Chinese company. Nothing to see there. I've done that a couple time myself.

    Two months after getting drummed out of the Navy for being a crackhead, Hunter lands a job paying $166k a month to his company. Good work if you can get.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  20. #100

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Hunter and Daddy go to China, Hunter comes back with a billion dollar equity deal in a Chinese company. Nothing to see there. I've done that a couple time myself.

    Two months after getting drummed out of the Navy for being a crackhead, Hunter lands a job paying $166k a month to his company. Good work if you can get.
    And is any of that illegal? Or is it only okay if you're a Republican?

    Republicans really need to step up their game. By this time last election they were already accusing Clinton of eating the flesh of sacrificed children in black magic rituals.

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