View Poll Results: Which Democratic candidates do you prefer?

Voters
42. You may not vote on this poll
  • Michael Bennet

    1 2.38%
  • Joe Biden

    5 11.90%
  • Cory Booker

    0 0%
  • Steve Bullock

    1 2.38%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    1 2.38%
  • Julian Castro

    0 0%
  • Bill de Blasio

    0 0%
  • John Delaney

    2 4.76%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    11 26.19%
  • Kamala Harris

    0 0%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    2 4.76%
  • Wayne Messam

    0 0%
  • Robert Francis O'Rourke

    0 0%
  • Tim Ryan

    1 2.38%
  • Bernie Sanders

    15 35.71%
  • Joe Sestak

    0 0%
  • Tom Steyer

    0 0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    12 28.57%
  • Marianne Williamson

    1 2.38%
  • Andrew Yang

    9 21.43%
  • Someone else

    4 9.52%
  • Don't care

    7 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #861
    Squiggle's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    That's the point: Brushing off attacks like he's been doing for half a century takes its toll. His heart is already giving out. If he doesn't rest, he may literally die within a year from the stress and exhaustion. His time has passed.
    A cursory look into this would have informed you that Bernie is perfectly fine, the heart attack did no damage and he is in fact in better shape than before. He is not on the brink of death, hes fine.
    Man will never be free until the last King is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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  2. #862

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    That's the point: Brushing off attacks like he's been doing for half a century takes its toll. His heart is already giving out. If he doesn't rest, he may literally die within a year from the stress and exhaustion. His time has passed.
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that. It could happen to a much younger candidate as well and that guy could have coped much worse. Your comment is illogical as well as baseless.
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  3. #863
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    . It could happen to a much younger candidate as well and that guy could have coped much worse. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    A cursory look into this would have informed you that Bernie is perfectly fine, the heart attack did no damage and he is in fact in better shape than before. He is not on the brink of death, hes fine.
    From a medical point of view, both of you are completely right. There was no myocardial infarction, the coronary arteries are clean now.
    You can still have a Myocardial Infarction with Non Obstructive Coronary Arteries (MINOCA)-5%- 10% of the cases- but it generally happens during the menopausal transition phase on middle aged women's. Sanders is fine. What about Biden? I guess he was never subjected to a coronarography. It's an invasive procedure that doesn't make part of a routine health check package.In health people with few or no risk factors, even the treadmill stress tests is a big no-no. Why? the risk of a false positive is high.Well, it's good for the cardiologist bank account.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'm not referring to anyone in particular. It's a hypothetical.
    Precisely. A failed act-I know- but sometimes it has a particular significance.
    You see, at opposite poles we have: "socialist, black, female, poor and stupid" versus" a "effective white old money man".
    -----
    I'm not saying we are better or worse than the US- in fact Europe's history covers a period of Dictatorship: Europe 1918-1989 and the US has never had a dictator.
    But we never had dynastic families. There are no Churchill/ De Gaulle /Adenauer/ Thatcher/ Mitterrand/ Pompidou/ Chirac/Giscard/Kohl/ Schroder/Willie Brandt or Merkel families.
    Here, in fact,there are no self perpetuating political dynasties, something like Bush/ /Kennedy/Adams/Roosevelt/ Harrison/ Frelinghuysen/ Taft/Rockefeller/ Daley or Cuomo Dynasties.In the US, congress members who serve more than one term have a 40% chance of someone in their family later ending up in Congress.
    If you have access to Netflix, see the documentary "Knock Down the House", the film received nods for best political documentary. The film follows the campaign of four "not so white" American women. All of them are/were poor, intelligent and cultivated, fighting against all odds.
    -----
    Bernie Sanders just made a brilliant defense of democratic socialism The Guardian

    "Political freedom in the absence of economic freedom is not real freedom"
    Even if Sanders is still polling behind Biden, the message may be starting to resonate. Fifty-seven per cent of Democrats view socialism positively, along with 61% of those aged 18 to 24.
    ----
    Democrats More Positive About Socialism Than Capitalism
    That's good news.
    Two year ago Richard Zimler, a Jewish/American/Portuguese writer (1), published an essay on the American online magazine Tikkun,
    After the election of Donald Trump in America, the Brexit referendum in the United Kingdom, and the resurgence of far-right parties in Holland, France, Poland, and much of the rest of Europe, it would be easy for anyone with progressive opinions and hopes for a world of greater justice and compassion to become dispirited. Undoubtedly, tens of millions of Americans, Brits, and others have been wondering if there is any country in which left-of-center parties committed to creating a more egalitarian society have been elected and brought about meaningful political change – a place where they may have even reversed reactionary social and economic policies. As a matter of fact, there is one small country at the western edge of Europe where exactly that has taken place (…)
    What are you so afraid of, right wing democrats? Why Can't the Media Admit the Democratic Party Has a Right Wing
    -----
    (1) The Gospel according to Richard Zimler - The Jewish Chronicle
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    Charles Péguy

    Socialism is the epithet they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
    Harry Truman Oct. 10th, 1952

  4. #864

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Precisely. A failed act-I know- but sometimes it has a particular significance.
    You see, at opposite poles we have: "socialist, black, female, poor and stupid" versus" a "effective white old money man".
    Well sure, but the the point is that both "poles" are capable of producing bad and good men. So sure, you can have a "Socialist, black female, poor and stupid". But you can also have Obama. And while the other end of the scale produced man-child Trump, it's equally capable of producing Franklin Delano Roosevelt. So my point is that origins don't particularly matter, but being born wealthy gives you a massive upper hand because, as you said, the world isn't exactly a meritocracy.

    I'm not saying we are better or worse than the US- in fact Europe's history covers a period of Dictatorship: Europe 1918-1989 and the US has never had a dictator.
    But we never had dynastic families. There are no Churchill/ De Gaulle /Adenauer/ Thatcher/ Mitterrand/ Pompidou/ Chirac/Giscard/Kohl/ Schroder/Willie Brandt or Merkel families.
    Here, in fact,there are no self perpetuating political dynasties, something like Bush/ /Kennedy/Adams/Roosevelt/ Harrison/ Frelinghuysen/ Taft/Rockefeller/ Daley or Cuomo Dynasties.In the US, congress members who serve more than one term have a 40% chance of someone in their family later ending up in Congress.
    If you have access to Netflix, see the documentary "Knock Down the House", the film received nods for best political documentary. The film follows the campaign of four "not so white" American women. All of them are/were poor, intelligent and cultivated, fighting against all odds.
    I'm not sure why you see political dynasties as a bad thing. While I am certainly opposed to politics being dominated by political families, I don't have an issue with a few members of Congress being part of the same family. Or the Presidents being related. Like the Adams, or the Bushes, or the Clintons. A family dedicating themselves towards public service is something I admire, not disparage.

  5. #865
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Bernie Sanders is the best and only sane choice for POTUS imho. Biden is Hillary 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Obama and Trump stayed inside Moscow. It's not that he spent time in Soviet Union as a politician that is the problem; it's that he's as far left as it goes economically.
    Lol no mate. Bernie would not be considered a leftist in most european countries. Bernie is trying to make the US into a civilized European country and raise the quality of healthcare and education of the average american above the third world levels it currently wallows in.
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  6. #866

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Bernie Sanders is the best and only sane choice for POTUS imho.
    Eh, Bernie sold out to the Church of Woke. I think Tulsi Gabbard is the better alternative. She's younger, prettier, less at risk of spontaneous critical existence failure (unless Hillary has her whacked, of course), and covers traditional "left" issues without the disgusting "wokeness" that most of the other candidates are pushing.


    Lol no mate. Bernie would not be considered a leftist in most european countries. Bernie is trying to make the US into a civilized European country and raise the quality of healthcare and education of the average american above the third world levels it currently wallows in.
    Maybe you're referring to the Bernie of 2016. Have you checked his recent positions?

  7. #867
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Well sure, but the the point is that both "poles" are capable of producing bad and good men.
    I was going to make a joke..."it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God", but you are right It can happen...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'm not sure why you see political dynasties as a bad thing.
    You are saying "I'm not sure why you see plutocracies as a bad thing". In a western, democratic and civilized country with a population of over 327 million people,it just makes no sense.
    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    A family dedicating themselves towards public service is something I admire, not disparage.
    "dedicating themselves toward public service"... you are projecting too much. Rome doesn't exist anymore, where the definition of nobilitas bound the elite to the aristocratic code of public service. Nah..they are dedicated to preservation of the family power.
    -----------
    I apologize, the leftist inside me just can't resist. As she said, "in a moment of clarity", AOC endorsed Bernie. "It wasn't until I heard of a man named Bernie Sanders that I began to question and assert and recognize my inherent value as a human being that deserves healthcare, housing, education and a living wage"
    Particularly good at connecting with the audience, this woman excels on public speaking,

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  8. #868
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squiggle View Post
    A cursory look into this would have informed you that Bernie is perfectly fine, the heart attack did no damage and he is in fact in better shape than before. He is not on the brink of death, hes fine.
    A cursory look tells me that while he's fine now, he had a heart attack. He is not on the brink of death yet and he recovered well this time. How about the next time?
    And since the fraying of his health started it won't go back. He may not have another heart attack and live for 30 years. Or he may have a heart attack again in a week.
    But the chances he will leave for 30 more years when he started having heart attacks? Much much lower. His heart is giving him warning signs.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that. It could happen to a much younger candidate as well and that guy could have coped much worse. Your comment is illogical as well as baseless.
    A heart attack is suggesting that his heart is giving out. As I said, he recovered very well this time.
    My comment is logical and solidly based. Your denial is wishful thinking.

    His time has passed. He's an old man with a heart that is giving warning signs. Unless he stops, there is a significant probability that he will die within a few years from the stress and exhaustion. His heart can't take it. It's already giving out signals.

    A younger candidate that had a heart attack would also be someone that has already taken too much stress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Lol no mate. Bernie would not be considered a leftist in most european countries. Bernie is trying to make the US into a civilized European country and raise the quality of healthcare and education of the average american above the third world levels it currently wallows in.
    Since I am in a European country and have travelled in a lot of European countries, I can tell you that no, Sanders is far left everywhere.
    I mean, corporate democracy? Singleplayer medicare? Insane taxes on the rich? Naturalizing the means of energy production? Unions-Unions-Unions?

    Those are leftwing things.

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Maybe you're referring to the Bernie of 2016. Have you checked his recent positions?
    Sanders 2016 is mostly the same as Sanders recently and mostly the same as Sanders in the 80s, when he was supporting the Sandinistas and the other commies.
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  9. #869

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    A heart attack is suggesting that his heart is giving out. As I said, he recovered very well this time.
    My comment is logical and solidly based. Your denial is wishful thinking.
    His time has passed. He's an old man with a heart that is giving warning signs. Unless he stops, there is a significant probability that he will die within a few years from the stress and exhaustion. His heart can't take it. It's already giving out signals.
    A younger candidate that had a heart attack would also be someone that has already taken too much stress.
    This sounds more like wishful thinking to get rid of him rather than my wishful thinking to see him on the ticket. As its already been pointed out to you your concerns have no base and the hearth attack he had does not justify it. Interestingly, you ignored the comment that provided the most medical answer which is evident of your analysis lacking any facts.
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  10. #870

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Eh, Bernie sold out to the Church of Woke. I think Tulsi Gabbard is the better alternative. She's younger, prettier, less at risk of spontaneous critical existence failure (unless Hillary has her whacked, of course), and covers traditional "left" issues without the disgusting "wokeness" that most of the other candidates are pushing.
    Her positions are very similar to Hillary Clinton's. While certainly not identical word for word, they occupy the same space in the political spectrum. The difference is, as you said, she's younger, prettier, and more authentic (which means "less woke" to you I suppose). Oh and Clinton has a longer political career.

    Maybe you're referring to the Bernie of 2016. Have you checked his recent positions?
    What specific difference would you like to bring up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    You are saying "I'm not sure why you see plutocracies as a bad thing". In a western, democratic and civilized country with a population of over 327 million people,it just makes no sense.
    No, I'm saying what's wrong with political families. There are also military families, families of doctors, lawyers, etc... There is a distinction between a family working in a specific field or industry, and a specific field or industry being dominated by a very privileged circle of people. While United States can certainly be described as a plutocracy, I don't think the existence of political families contributes to that situation in any meaningful way. Or should Mark Kelly, a Democrat running for the Arizona Senate seat be forbidden from running because he is the husband of a former U.S. Representative Gabby Giffords?

    "dedicating themselves toward public service"... you are projecting too much. Rome doesn't exist anymore, where the definition of nobilitas bound the elite to the aristocratic code of public service. Nah..they are dedicated to preservation of the family power.
    I really don't think that's the case. Especially when familial fortunes of the wealthy, are not dependent on their political influence. What is political power worth in a democracy anyway? While Trump has shown how far abuse of power and corruption can go, the Bushes, the Clintons, the Kennedies... Not exactly people who were struggling for money, and not exactly people who benefited enormously from political power either.

  11. #871
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This sounds more like wishful thinking to get rid of him rather than my wishful thinking to see him on the ticket. As its already been pointed out to you your concerns have no base and the hearth attack he had does not justify it. Interestingly, you ignored the comment that provided the most medical answer which is evident of your analysis lacking any facts.
    ?
    Nooooope, my concerns have a solid base and justification as my posts already explain. The "already pointed out" part is only true in your head... it's not "pointed out" it's wishful thinking. You pointed towards a large blob and called it a house. That doesn't make it a house.

    Regardless, which comment that provided the most medical answer did I ignore?
    And do you refute that having a heart attack, even if he recovered nicely = his heart is giving him warnings to slow down?
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  12. #872

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    ?
    Nooooope, my concerns have a solid base and justification as my posts already explain. The "already pointed out" part is only true in your head... it's not "pointed out" it's wishful thinking. You pointed towards a large blob and called it a house. That doesn't make it a house.
    Regardless, which comment that provided the most medical answer did I ignore?
    And do you refute that having a heart attack, even if he recovered nicely = his heart is giving him warnings to slow down?
    Post #863, Ludicus provided quite an nice explanation on how your have no base. You ignored that. No, just because someone gets a heart attack doesn't mean his hearth is giving out as you suggested.
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  13. #873
    pchalk's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Settra View Post
    Bernie is trying to make the US into a civilized European country and raise the quality of healthcare and education of the average american above the third world levels it currently wallows in.
    I will try not to be offended by this statement ...

    Words like "civilized" are subjective. Maybe you are from Europe but I have lived on both sides of the Atlantic and on all points you mentioned the US is no less cilvilized or first world than the any European country.

  14. #874
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Do you refer to that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    From a medical point of view, both of you are completely right. There was no myocardial infarction, the coronary arteries are clean now.
    You can still have a Myocardial Infarction with Non Obstructive Coronary Arteries (MINOCA)-5%- 10% of the cases- but it generally happens during the menopausal transition phase on middle aged women's. Sanders is fine. What about Biden? I guess he was never subjected to a coronarography. It's an invasive procedure that doesn't make part of a routine health check package.In health people with few or no risk factors, even the treadmill stress tests is a big no-no. Why? the risk of a false positive is high.Well, it's good for the cardiologist bank account.
    That the arteries are clean now doesn't mean it won't happen again. What we do know, it's that it happened. So something was wrong. Not to mention that the heart is often injured when a heart attack happens.
    "Scar tissue may form in the damaged area, and that scar tissue does not contract or pump as well as healthy muscle tissue. As a consequence, the extent of damage to the heart muscle can impact how well the heart pumps blood throughout the body.
    How much pumping function is lost depends on the size and location of the scar tissue. Most heart attack survivors have some degree of coronary artery disease (CAD) and will have to make important lifestyle changes and possibly take medication to prevent a future heart attack."
    Underlined part = Should not run for presidents of big countries to prevent future heart attack.

    Simply put: You don't recover completely from a heart attack. Even if the damage was minor, you suffered the heart attack when you were more healthy than you are weeks after it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Post #863, Ludicus provided quite an nice explanation on how your have no base. You ignored that. No, just because someone gets a heart attack doesn't mean his hearth is giving out as you suggested.
    Riiiiight. Someone that has a heart attack is at the top peak of his youth. That's some bold medical advice here.
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  15. #875
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Regardless of whenever Bernie is healthy or not after the heart attack its going to be easy for Trump to attack him over age. I think its going to doom his chance for nomination. Warren will likley get it it now.

  16. #876

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Do you refer to that?
    That the arteries are clean now doesn't mean it won't happen again. What we do know, it's that it happened. So something was wrong. Not to mention that the heart is often injured when a heart attack happens.
    "Scar tissue may form in the damaged area, and that scar tissue does not contract or pump as well as healthy muscle tissue. As a consequence, the extent of damage to the heart muscle can impact how well the heart pumps blood throughout the body.
    How much pumping function is lost depends on the size and location of the scar tissue. Most heart attack survivors have some degree of coronary artery disease (CAD) and will have to make important lifestyle changes and possibly take medication to prevent a future heart attack."
    Underlined part = Should not run for presidents of big countries to prevent future heart attack.
    Simply put: You don't recover completely from a heart attack. Even if the damage was minor, you suffered the heart attack when you were more healthy than you are weeks after it.
    Riiiiight. Someone that has a heart attack is at the top peak of his youth. That's some bold medical advice here.
    Sigh... Now that you're using "evidence" that doesn't exactly support your claim and you're trying to argue against what I haven't we reached that point where your position evidently self-destructive. Good luck with such an ignorant position.

    Meanwhile, a beautiful sight:
    Ocasio-Cortez joins Bernie Sanders for comeback rally in New York
    There was no shortage of support in Queensbridge Park. Sanders said the campaign got a permit for 20,000 and had to turn people away. The security company handling the event reportedly said more than 25,000 were there.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 23, 2019 at 02:43 PM.
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  17. #877
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon;15845481
    Not to mention that the heart [URL="https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/heart-attack/about-heart-attacks"
    is often injured[/URL] when a heart attack happens. Scar tissue may form in the damaged area, and that scar tissue does not contract or pump as well as healthy muscle tissue"
    alhoon, please don't dramatize.
    Not exactly, it mainly depends on the extension/expansion of the myocardial infarction (1), if that's the case. Clinical indications for PCI also include angina, unstable or stable, and even high risk stress test findings.
    (1) Unless I'm wrong-from what we know so far- there was/is no evidence of myocardial dysfunction/heart failure.It also seems that there are no concomitant,non-cardiac risk factors, namely diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol,etc.
    ------
    Allow me me to enlighten you on these points. Obviously, patients remain at continued risk after stenting, but there is an overall decline in mortality from coronary artery disease.
    Only in the first 30 days after percutaneous coronary intervention were the number of cardiovascular deaths higher than the noncardiovascular deaths while after 1 year, the latter was the predominant form of death- according to insights from 32 882 patients enrolled in 21 randomized trials.
    To be more clear,direct effects of the stent on overall cardiovascular death are small as might be expected when considering that the most dire complication of stent thrombosis is present in <10% of cardiovascular deaths.
    ----
    As a side note, life expectancy in the US is 78.6, lower than comparable countries - and is declining. Btw, Checking Bernie Sanders on life expectancy in Virginia, West Virginia ... and he is right.

    -------
    In younger patients, for athletes-patients with proven coronary artery disease, the recommendation for patients who have had a myocardial infarction/undergoing percutaneous coronary intervention and who have a low-probability of further cardiac events is for them to have a minimum of three months' rehabilitation before they resume participation in competitive sports. If they are receiving dual antiplatelet therapy (DAPT), because of the risk of bleeding, they should be advised to avoid contact sports. Source, European Heart Journal, the Sports Cardiology Section of the European Association of Preventive Cardiology (EAPC)
    -------
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Warren will likley get it it now.
    Yep...
    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Meanwhile, a beautiful sight:
    Well, on twitter, Ocasio Cortez made clear that her support of Sanders was not a condemnation of Warren,
    Frankly, Senator Sanders, Senator Warren, and myself are all on the same team in the party. We should all be grateful to have such strong, progressive leadership to choose from. For many it’s a tough choice precisely because of how great they are. I’m confident we will all come together on the other side stronger than ever
    Edit,
    Ocasio-Cortez - by Elizabeth Warren,
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is on the 2019 TIME 100 List

    The year 2008 was a reckoning. While millions of Americans lost their livelihoods to Wall Street’s greed, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez lost her dad to lung cancer, and her family fell off a financial cliff. She watched as our government bailed out Wall Street while it ignored families like hers. She learned the hard way that in America today, Washington protects the powerful while leaving hardworking people behind.
    Her commitment to putting power in the hands of the people is forged in fire. Coming from a family in crisis and graduating from school with a mountain of debt, she fought back against a rigged system and emerged as a fearless leader in a movement committed to demonstrating what an economy, a planet and a government that works for everyone should look like.
    A year ago, she was taking orders across a bar. Today, millions are taking cues from her. She reminds all of us that even while greed and corruption slow our progress, even while armies of lobbyists swarm Washington, in our democracy, true power still rests with the people. And she’s just getting started.
    Last edited by Ludicus; October 23, 2019 at 05:24 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Socialism is the epithet they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
    Harry Truman Oct. 10th, 1952

  18. #878
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Sigh... Now that you're using "evidence" that doesn't exactly support your claim and you're trying to argue against what I haven't we reached that point where your position evidently self-destructive. Good luck with such an ignorant position.
    Or so you think... The evidence I used completely supports my claim that when you start with the heart attacks, it means your health gets hit and you need to make lifestyle changes. In short, medical associations support my claim. I am not trying to argue against anything you said or you didn't say. I am simply stating that Sanders is too old and that he should retire from politics or the exhaustive pace of a presidential campaign will strongly affect his failing health and he may soon die. He is a man at the end of his life already, his chance has passed.
    Then, you showed up and used some arguments that don't make sense nor they hold in the face of what doctors and common sense dictate.


    @Ludicus:
    It may seem as an exaggeration to you, but I was saying Biden, Sanders, Trump (the PotUS) and even Warren are too old to run. They are all at the end of their lives heart attacks or not.
    It is telling that while I have been saying in 2007-2008 that McCain was too old at 69 years old and a lot of the democrat rank-and-file politicians (or simply some supporters) at the time were saying the same thing, now that their side is doing it, it is fine.

    There is a law that you have to be above X age to run, like above 35 or something... but there should be a law that dictates you can't be over 62 at the day of inauguration to run for PotUS. Why 62? So that if you win, you will be out of office by 70.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 23, 2019 at 05:47 PM.
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  19. #879
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    . I am simply stating that Sanders is too old and that he should retire from politics or the exhaustive pace of a presidential campaign will strongly affect his failing health and he may soon die.
    Not exactly...for many years, it was recommended to avoid physical activity after a cardiovascular event; nowadays, it is a consensus that exercise training should be part of cardiac rehabilitation programs.Exercise can prevent future complications and increase the quality of life and longevity of infarcted patients.
    Exercise after a heart attack. It could save your life.
    Becoming more physically active after a heart attack reduces the risk of death, according to research presented today at EuroPrevent 2018, a European Society of Cardiology congress. The study, which followed more than 22,000 patients, found that those who became more physically active after a heart attack halved the risk of death within four years.
    ---
    As I said before, infarct size is a determinant of prognosis. Prognosis depends largely on the extent of the infarct and the residual left ventricular function. Elective coronary angioplasty (including stents) of the infarct related artery before hospital discharge is associated with full recovery of contraction late after myocardial infarction.
    ---
    Biden, Sanders, Trump (the PotUS) and even Warren are too old to run.They are all at the end of their lives
    Jimmy Carter is not only alive and well but has remained active. A person with no functional limitation at 70 years of age has a life expectancy of 14.3 years.
    But yes, I agree with you that the US....has become a gerontocracy

    Moreover, there is the advantage of incumbency. However much Americans claim to dislike their representatives, the truth is that incumbents almost always win re-election, which over time has resulted in an aged Congress.
    This trend will doubtless continue, and may get worse, especially given that people live longer than ever before.
    First, there is the deficit of mental deterioration. In recent years, experts have begun to question whether former president Ronald Reagan, who was 77 when he left office in 1988, exhibited early signs of dementia

    Also vital is the moral dimension: elderly leaders are making decisions for future generations that will have to deal with the consequences of these choices.

    This problem bedeviled the Soviet Union in the early 1980s, when no less than three general secretaries of the Communist party – Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko – died in quick succession.

    But perhaps most significant is the fact that gerontocracies prevent new ideas from entering into the small elite that makes national policy.

    We might even consider creating institutions that enable older politicians to retain an advisory role while allowing younger leaders to replace them as formal representatives. Such arrangements have existed before; for example, John F Kennedy consulted his predecessor, Dwight D Eisenhower, during the Cuban missile crisis.

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Socialism is the epithet they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.
    Harry Truman Oct. 10th, 1952

  20. #880

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Her positions are very similar to Hillary Clinton's. While certainly not identical word for word, they occupy the same space in the political spectrum. The difference is, as you said, she's younger, prettier, and more authentic (which means "less woke" to you I suppose). Oh and Clinton has a longer political career.
    Hilary the warmonger had identical platform then Tulsi the anti war, and foreign interference platform now? I think identical doesn't mean what you think it does.

    At any case that argument of yours can be said by most primary candidates. It is same party after all. But there is differences.

    If they were the same Hilary wouldn't now call Tulsi as being groomed by Russia.

    I suppose it is trendy now to link Russia interference's, to atack political rivals. Because that always work.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; October 24, 2019 at 05:53 PM.

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