View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bernie Sanders.

    18 47.37%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 13.16%
  • Neither.

    15 39.47%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #61
    Cookiegod's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
    This.
    How did you manage to read this into his post?! Please elaborate.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
    Not sure about the UK, but nobody in the US who hasn't been convicted of a felony loses their voting rights.

    Possession of a gram of weed isn't even a crime in my state, but I think in general, if a crime isn't serious enough to warrant loss of voting rights during time served, it probably shouldn't be considered serious enough to warrant prison time in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #63

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Don't try to cook up excuses for such behavior. All you end up doing is enable it. It's disgusting. Trying to twist every obvious topic like that, however, got boring yesterday. You've reduced your entire position to a small sound bite that you can't even stand by. Congratulations.
    No, the recording clearly points out his was talking about a consensual act, although in vulgar terms (then again, conversation was private and it was years before Trump's plans to join politics). That's not the same ballpark as numerous photos of Biden acting rapey around women.

  4. #64
    irontaino's Avatar Pizza time!
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Not sure about the UK, but nobody in the US who hasn't been convicted of a felony loses their voting rights.

    Possession of a gram of weed isn't even a crime in my state, but I think in general, if a crime isn't serious enough to warrant loss of voting rights during time served, it probably shouldn't be considered serious enough to warrant prison time in the first place.
    In general, zero tolerance is the way in the US, it's why there are so many people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses. With the War on Drugs, nonviolent drug offenders are stripped of their rights and lose access to services the same as sex offenders and killers.
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
    Well if you break the law you break the law. Cannabis is a class B drug, which has an up to 5 year penalty for possession.

    You don’t need to be violent to break the law. All I’m saying is that prisoners cannot vote in the UK currently, nor should they.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    You say that like it’s a bad thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  6. #66

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Apparently hilarious parody website of Creepy Joe's campaign is actually beating in Google search requests his actual official campaign website. Not off to a good start, eh Joe?
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; May 05, 2019 at 09:42 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Joe Biden is pulling ahead in the polls; its looking increasingly likely that he'll beat Sanders to the Democratic presidential candidacy in 2020.

  8. #68
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
    Yes.
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    You say that like it’s a bad thing.
    You act like someone losing their rights over something so trivial isn't a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes.
    So why should someone who hasn't committed any wrongdoing get the same punishment as a rapist or a murderer?
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  10. #70
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So why should someone who hasn't committed any wrongdoing get the same punishment as a rapist or a murderer?
    It seems more like you're arguing that minor drug offences shouldn't result in custodial sentences rather than incarcerated criminals shouldn't be denied the right to vote.

  11. #71
    irontaino's Avatar Pizza time!
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    It seems more like you're arguing that minor drug offences shouldn't result in custodial sentences rather than incarcerated criminals shouldn't be denied the right to vote.
    These two things are linked. Hell, most people who are incarcerated haven't been convicted of anything. They're either awaiting trial and can't afford bail.
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    You act like someone losing their rights over something so trivial isn't a bad thing



    So why should someone who hasn't committed any wrongdoing get the same punishment as a rapist or a murderer?
    Since when was possession of class B drugs not wrongdoing? They’re not innocent.

    Anyway, Bernie Sanders deserves to be called out for wanting criminals to vote from prison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Since when was possession of class B drugs not wrongdoing? They’re not innocent.
    Who's getting hurt/killed to put potheads in the same bracket as murderers and rapists?

    Anyway, Bernie Sanders deserves to be called out for wanting criminals to vote from prison.
    Nonviolent offenders should be allowed to vote. Prison should be about rehabilitation, and this would be part of prison reform.
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  14. #74
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So why should someone who hasn't committed any wrongdoing get the same punishment as a rapist or a murderer?
    Someone that is in prison has been found guilty of something worthy for the person to go to prison. If a person committed a lighter crime he or she wouldn't get the same punishment as a rapist or murderer: they would serve a lesser sentence.
    Serving a sentence means certain things and how naughty the prisoner has been defines for how long they lose certain rights.

    The right to vote should be among those rights suspended.

    If the USA public or a state's public think a certain action shouldn't be a crime or shouldn't lead to incarceration, they can decriminalize it. They should not change what "imprisonment" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Who's getting hurt/killed to put potheads in the same bracket as murderers and rapists?
    Unless potheads spend their life in high security prison or get executed, they are not in the same bracket as murderers and rapists.
    Last edited by alhoon; May 05, 2019 at 04:19 PM.
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  15. #75
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/1852831...-right-to-vote

    69% of Americans don’t want felons to have the vote. This isn’t an issue Bernie should campaign under, given the small fringe of mostly progressives that support it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  16. #76

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Biden - a man devoid of charisma - is Hillary Clinton #2.
    --
    And Bernie is right. Here prisoners are allowed to vote in advance, and they are informed, Portal do Eleitor: Votar antecipadamente


    ...according to the Prisoners' right to vote - European Court of Human Rights




    Read the pages 3,4,5. Cases concerning the United Kingdom,Austria, Italy, Turkey,Russia, and Bulgaria.

    --
    In fact, Biden is not Bernie Sanders,

    Sure, Biden.

    Biden is not Hillary either. Many people in the ue US hated Hillary, and while they did not like Trump at all, they hated Hillary even more. I don't think Biden is as loathed as Hillary was. While Hillary may have had her supporters in the Democratic party, I know many in the last election disliked both candidates, and some of my friends voted 3rd party, where if Biden had been running, they would have easily voted for him over Trump. If Sanderd had been running, I know that I would have voted for him in a heartbeat, but the only candidate I dsliked as much as Trump was Hillary. It was like the catch line to the Aliens vs Predator movie - "no.mstter who wins, you lose".

    Bernie would appeal to traditional Democratic voters but he wouldn't appeal at all to voters he typically voted Republican, but don't like Trump. In US politics you can't bbe percieved to be too far off.thr center, either liberal or conservative. Goldwater was too far to the right, and lost big, and McGovern was too far to the left, and also lost big. Reagan won by convincing people.he was just moderate enough to win, that he was not too far to the right. The perseption I have of Sanders is that he is a little too far to the left for many Americans. I think Biden would be a stronger candidate, he has a more moderate, mainsteam perception than Sanders.

    Plus, in the primaries, popularity among the rank and file party members counts, since voter turnout is usually very low in the primaries. I think Biden is more popular among the Democratic party.members than Sanders, who has a more Maverick reputation. About the only Democratic candidate who would have lost to Trump was Hillary, yet but he Democratic Party establishment did everything in its power to ensure Hillary would be the candidate. .I think the Democratic Party.estsblishment would prefer Biden over Sanders, and would work to make him the candidate over Sanders. In the election, I think Sanders would be be successfully protrayed as being g too far to the left, his popularity in the last election primary was that he was not Hillary, and refuse to knuckle under to the Hillary jugggernaut. Biden was vice president under Obama, who was popular with many Americans.
    I think the Democrats have a good shot at winning the next election, as long as they don't screw up and nominate someone prlercieved as too radical. Of course beating Trump might not be a walk in the park some think. Americans typically heavily favor the incumbent President if the economy is doing well. In the last 60 years, only 3 incumbents failed to get elected - Ford, who was never elected in the first place, and was never forgiven for his pardon of Nixon and a so-so economy, Carter for his 18% inflation and interest rates and his Iranian hostage crisis (rescue attempt was a fiasco), and Bush senior. Even Bush junior got re-elected. The economy is doing well, which is a big thing, and if all the negative press didn't prevent Tump.from being elected in the first place, I wonder how .uch difference it will make in the re-election.

  17. #77

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    https://www.vox.com/2019/5/3/1852831...-right-to-vote

    69% of Americans don’t want felons to have the vote. This isn’t an issue Bernie should campaign under, given the small fringe of mostly progressives
    I agree. The issue should be left up to the states, and al states eventually allow ex.felons to vote once they complete their sentences. There are even a couple of states that allow people.to vote while they are still in jail, Maine and Vermont.

    This is an issue that should be left up to the states, as is today. It is not a federal issue, and Sanders should not get involved in it.
    Last edited by Common Soldier; May 05, 2019 at 06:13 PM.

  18. #78
    Settra's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Obama and Trump stayed inside Moscow. It's not that he spent time in Soviet Union as a politician that is the problem; it's that he's as far left as it goes economically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Because he wants to incrementally end capitalism in the long run.
    In Europe, Bernie would pass for a moderate liberal democrat or at worst a centrist like the old peasant's party. He's not even left enough to be social democrat.
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  19. #79
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
    Maybe, just maybe, people shouldn't be going to jail over a gram of weed.



  20. #80
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I am in the attached picture. Buttigieg was in my town today.

    I ask a question at 42:55 I didn't get much of an answer, though I got about what I expected. Democrats have been worried about how much data Big Tech is collecting, but are not much interested in protecting free speech.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 59868732_2004698946325601_2610287982124466176_n.jpg  
    Last edited by Big War Bird; May 06, 2019 at 08:46 PM.
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