View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

Voters
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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #41

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It is sad that people have to say the most ridiculous thing for air time in a crowded field. I'm sure we'll see more of it. Andrew Yang's campaign is the pinnacle of it.

    As for Joe Biden, on top of his other baggage, I don't think an old man is going to win in this day and age with pictures like this going around:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    He'll get memed into oblivion
    Last edited by tgoodenow; April 27, 2019 at 10:14 PM.

  2. #42
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    As for Joe Biden, on top of his other baggage, I don't think an old man is going to win in this day and age with pictures like this going around:

    He'll get memed into oblivion
    I disagree. We thought the same about Trump but all the negative publicity simply gave him free time. If the media normalize his creepiness this early, his supporters will learn to ignore it, as Republican voters mostly learned to ignore Trump's tantrums and foul moods.
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  3. #43
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    For one, he'd almost certainly work to force religious organizations, businesses, parents and churches to go against their conscience and cater to abortionists and LGBT people.
    This seems pretty unlikely considering he's a devout Catholic. If anything, out of the Democratic candidates he's the best option for conservatives worried about 'catering to abortionists and LGBT people':

    Nor did he hide when he disagreed with the president. “Joe did not hesitate to say, ‘I think he’s going in the wrong direction,’” said Leon E. Panetta, who succeeded Mr. Gates at the Pentagon. As an example, he cited the vice president’s feeling that the president’s team was not sufficiently sensitive to concerns of Catholics about abortion and contraceptive coverage by insurance companies.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/28/u...gtype=Homepage

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpy Hooves View Post
    In terms of the American political perspective? He wants to give complete control over healthcare to the government. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Europe, they at least let you go for private healthcare. He doesn't want a private option.
    Yeah, that's a bit of a weird position, removing private healthcare altogether. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that. It still would not make him 'far left' in any general sense, but I guess he is indeed as far left as it gets in the US.

    Also, the Creepy Joe memes are super weak considering Trump literally bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. If Republicans were fine with that then I'm not sure why Democrats should care about Biden being a bit too handsy with folks.
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  4. #44

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Also, the Creepy Joe memes are super weak considering Trump literally bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. If Republicans were fine with that then I'm not sure why Democrats should care about Biden being a bit too handsy with folks.
    Mmm...these are coming about when the left can choose between Joe and another Democrat. That came out when the right had to choose between Trump and a democrat that, lock, stock and barrel, as on the other side of their in the sand.
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  5. #45
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    This seems pretty unlikely considering he's a devout Catholic. If anything, out of the Democratic candidates he's the best option for conservatives worried about 'catering to abortionists and LGBT people':



    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/28/u...gtype=Homepage



    Yeah, that's a bit of a weird position, removing private healthcare altogether. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that. It still would not make him 'far left' in any general sense, but I guess he is indeed as far left as it gets in the US.
    So nationalizing a significant segment of the economy and cutting out the private sector is not far left? News to me.



  6. #46

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    This is probably the first election where I'm pretty much undecided, to be honest. A Biden victory would put a stop to Trumpism and liberate the GOP from its grasp, which would be great. I just don't know about his support for abortion, though, not to mention his anti-gun and anti-religious liberty stances. If it weren't for these three things, I'd probably be firmly in Biden's camp. But as things stand, if Trump goes down, guns, babies and Christian grandmas go down. It's a Sophie's choice.
    Seriously? "Trumpism" as what you want to call it, saved GOP from losing and gave it major grassroots support. The only alternative form him in GOP is neocons, which means more illegal wars in middle east and other neocon BS that we saw under Bush. Then again, Democrats are pretty much the same globalist nonsense, except instead of boomer pseudo-conservatism you'd get identity politics and further infringements on individual freedoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I disagree. We thought the same about Trump but all the negative publicity simply gave him free time. If the media normalize his creepiness this early, his supporters will learn to ignore it, as Republican voters mostly learned to ignore Trump's tantrums and foul moods.
    Negative publicity about Trump is just fake outrage over some mean tweets or quotes taken out of context to expose "racism" or "sexism", which can be easily done to any other candidate. Biden's creepy behavior is a totally different ballpark, even if you believe legacy media's take that Trump is literal Hitler/Antichrist. It just goes to prove that Democrat elite exists within an echo chamber and they are simply unable to view constructive criticism and present candidates which don't have major negative baggage or have charisma of rancid roadkill. Essentially, their only hope is pushing for Sanders, but I'm pretty sure they'll do anything to give nomination to Biden, even if that kills their chances in the next election.

  7. #47

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Negative publicity about Trump is just fake outrage over some mean tweets or quotes taken out of context to expose "racism" or "sexism", which can be easily done to any other candidate. Biden's creepy behavior is a totally different ballpark, even if you believe legacy media's take that Trump is literal Hitler/Antichrist. It just goes to prove that Democrat elite exists within an echo chamber and they are simply unable to view constructive criticism and present candidates which don't have major negative baggage or have charisma of rancid roadkill. Essentially, their only hope is pushing for Sanders, but I'm pretty sure they'll do anything to give nomination to Biden, even if that kills their chances in the next election.
    Not many other candidates have recording of them to grab women by their genitals. You're simply lying about what people do or can argue. Your post is all talk no show built on false pretenses.
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  8. #48
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Negative publicity about Trump is just fake outrage over some mean tweets or quotes taken out of context to expose "racism" or "sexism", which can be easily done to any other candidate. Biden's creepy behavior is a totally different ballpark, even if you believe legacy media's take that Trump is literal Hitler/Antichrist. It just goes to prove that Democrat elite exists within an echo chamber and they are simply unable to view constructive criticism and present candidates which don't have major negative baggage or have charisma of rancid roadkill. Essentially, their only hope is pushing for Sanders, but I'm pretty sure they'll do anything to give nomination to Biden, even if that kills their chances in the next election.
    No, it's not. It's as fake outrage as it was with trump mean tweets, quotes of Trump completely in context. It's the same kind of fake outrage as it was against Hillary OMG emails private server crap, until Ivanka and a bunch of other Republicans use the same.
    Biden being too touchy-feely and presenting him as a creep is funny and nothing but hot air. It's not different ballpark, it's exactly the same thing. All these are Non-issues blown out of proportion for consumption by gullible fanatics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    It still would not make him 'far left' in any general sense, but I guess he is indeed as far left as it gets in the US.
    Again: when there's literally nobody to the left of him from politicians with any serious following, he's the definition of far left.

    He doesn't mind huge taxes, has said that no person should make more than 1M$, he is insanely pro-union, he wants to nationalize a bunch of industries ("Democracy means public ownership of the major means of production"), he supports Maduro, Cuba and the Sandinistas, he supports businesses owned by the workers, he wants single payer healthcare.
    And that's from the top of my head.

    Who else is more to the left of Sanders from any politician that has a following worth mentioning? I don't mean the unwashed hippies on soapboxes that have like 500 - 2000 potheads behind them. Those might be a little more to the left of Sanders.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 29, 2019 at 09:16 AM.
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  9. #49
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Again: when there's literally nobody to the left of him from politicians with any serious following, he's the definition of far left.
    My point was that you called Bernie far left in seemingly general terms, rather than in the context of US politics. Because in general terms he cannot seriously be called far left, whereas in the US, he is probably as far left as it gets. It's turned into a bit of a tedious discussion, though. My point is that Bernie is not some crazed Marxist about to lead a revolution to abolish all private property.
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  10. #50
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Biden kicks off his campaign and wants to focus on a style suited for the general election. I hope this sets an example for all the silly 'proposals' being floated by the flock of candidate want-to-be's.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...cement-1292429

    Read the full article at the link.

  11. #51

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Not many other candidates have recording of them to grab women by their genitals. You're simply lying about what people do or can argue. Your post is all talk no show built on false pretenses.
    Having recording of description of vulgar, but consensual act is different from having multiple photos of a candidate acting all rapey. It takes some Olympian level of mental gymnastics to try and equate that.
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    No, it's not. It's as fake outrage as it was with trump mean tweets, quotes of Trump completely in context. It's the same kind of fake outrage as it was against Hillary OMG emails private server crap, until Ivanka and a bunch of other Republicans use the same.
    Biden being too touchy-feely and presenting him as a creep is funny and nothing but hot air. It's not different ballpark, it's exactly the same thing. All these are Non-issues blown out of proportion for consumption by gullible fanatics.
    Last time I checked quotes were out of context (from grabbing thing to his quote about illegal aliens), and Hillary did, in fact, do the email thing, and Internet is full of pictures of Biden acting, well, rapey, so my point stands: optics-wise Biden's case is much worse, regardless of whether he is in fact a rapist, or he just has some problem with personal space. Same reason why Kavanaugh would tank as candidate, even if allegations against him weren't proven to be true. It doesn't matter what you legally are as long as significant amount of population believes you to be such.

  12. #52

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Having recording of description of vulgar, but consensual act is different from having multiple photos of a candidate acting all rapey. It takes some Olympian level of mental gymnastics to try and equate that.
    Indeed it does. It really requires extreme mental gymnastics to whitewash talking about grabbing women by their genitals to make them do whatever the grabber wants as a consensual act. Congratulations on creating this gem.
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  13. #53
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    So after rigging the primaries in the 2016 election in favour of the least likeable candidate available, thereby making Trumps election possible in the first place, they seem hellbent on doing the same thing again.

    Joe Biden has, just like Hillary, been using his public office for personal gain. And just like Hillary he hasn't even tried particularly hard to hide that.
    Hillary had her foundation thing going, which received lots and lots of money especially from foreign governments, until the donations suddenly tanked right after her failed election. I'm sure there was no connection there at all.

    Joe Biden has never even tried to hide how much he likes the big money (there's this beautiful clip from him when he was still young), but the way he extorted money from the Ukrainians once he became VPOTUS was fairly impressive:
    Two years after leaving office, Joe Biden couldn’t resist the temptation last year to brag to an audience of foreign policy specialists about the time as vice president that he strong-armed Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor.

    In his own words, with video cameras rolling, Biden described how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn’t immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

    [...]

    Interviews with a half-dozen senior Ukrainian officials confirm Biden’s account, though they claim the pressure was applied over several months in late 2015 and early 2016, not just six hours of one dramatic day. Whatever the case, Poroshenko and Ukraine’s parliament obliged by ending Shokin’s tenure as prosecutor. Shokin was facing steep criticism in Ukraine, and among some U.S. officials, for not bringing enough corruption prosecutions when he was fired.

    But Ukrainian officials tell me there was one crucial piece of information that Biden must have known but didn’t mention to his audience: The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden’s younger son, Hunter, as a board member.

    U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden’s American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts — usually more than $166,000 a month — from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.

    The general prosecutor’s official file for the Burisma probe — shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials — shows prosecutors identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.

    Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made “specific plans” for the investigation that “included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.”

    He added: “I would like to emphasize the fact that presumption of innocence is a principle in Ukraine” and that he couldn’t describe the evidence further.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    William Russo, a spokesman for Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden did not respond to email messages Monday seeking comment. The phone number at Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC in Washington was no longer in service on Monday.

    The timing of Hunter Biden’s and Archer’s appointment to Burisma’s board has been highlighted in the past, by The New York Times in December 2015 and in a 2016 book by conservative author Peter Schweizer.

    Although Biden made no mention of his son in his 2018 speech, U.S. and Ukrainian authorities both told me Biden and his office clearly had to know about the general prosecutor's probe of Burisma and his son's role.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...obe-is-revived

    That whole article is pure gold. I recommend you read it. But to summarize:
    1) Biden's son got a well payed job for a gas company (Burisma) owned by an oligarch, which was investigated by law enforcement across several countries.
    2) One of them, the then general prosecutor of Ukraine wanted to question Biden's son for his involvement in this criminal enterprise.
    3) The US embassy in Kiev coordinated Biden's work there discussed the general prosecutors case against Burisma publicly and repeatedly.
    4) When that pressure didn't work, Biden used 1 billion US$ taxpayer money to strong-arm a foreign government for purely personal gain and had the general prosecutor fired who was investigating his son.
    5) Joe, like Hillary, seems to have some narcicist tendencies in addition to his sociopathic ones, and had his "We came we saw he died." moment; publicly bragging about what he did.
    Except that to my knowledge and his credit no one died in that instance. Well, except Euromaidan, and the war thing, and generally the oligarchs becoming war lords with well armed militias outside of government control for a while. And that no one even bats an eye in that country if someone gets shot for no reason. But still. At least he's not bragging and laughing about having precipitated the torturous murder of a guy with a knife in his arse.

    Oh well.

    The other comparison being that just like with Hillary, the media likes to focus on the completely wrong things with that guy. Let's rather talk about his weird sniffing hair fetish. 8|
    Though I have to say that it's just exquisite to compare those guys who defend him now to the standards they showed in all those other cases?

    Yeah. I get why you like this guy. He's the most progressive candidate ever. Impressive moral standards. Always good at lecturing others. Just not when his own behaviour is concerned.

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  14. #54

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Indeed it does. It really requires extreme mental gymnastics to whitewash talking about grabbing women by their genitals to make them do whatever the grabber wants as a consensual act. Congratulations on creating this gem.
    I don't think you've listened to the full recording then.

  15. #55

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't think you've listened to the full recording then.
    Don't try to cook up excuses for such behavior. All you end up doing is enable it. It's disgusting. Trying to twist every obvious topic like that, however, got boring yesterday. You've reduced your entire position to a small sound bite that you can't even stand by. Congratulations.
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  16. #56
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    More Joe Biden:

    Joe Biden sparks row with Venezuela protest comments

    Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has reacted angrily to comments made by US Vice President Joe Biden about ongoing protests in the country.

    In a newspaper article Mr Biden called the situation alarming and accused the Venezuelan government concocting false conspiracy theories against the United States.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-la...otest-comments

    Video at link as well.


    Joe keep out of this. This is not going to go well. And you know from recent history that most of your party dislikes Pres. Trump and any related policy. Right of wrong on Venezuela is no reason to 'act Presidential' when the other party is stirring the pot.

  17. #57
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Biden - a man devoid of charisma - is Hillary Clinton #2.
    --
    And Bernie is right. Here prisoners are allowed to vote in advance, and they are informed, Portal do Eleitor: Votar antecipadamente

    SE ESTÁ DETIDO num estabelecimento prisional e, por esse motivo, está impedido de se deslocar à assembleia de voto no dia da eleição, pode votar antecipadamente.
    ...according to the Prisoners' right to vote - European Court of Human Rights


    … Prisoners in general continue to enjoy all the fundamental rights and freedoms guaranteed under the Convention save for the right to liberty...… Any restrictions on these other rights must be justified …There is no question, therefore, that a prisoner forfeits his Convention rights merely because of his status as a person detained following conviction. Nor is there any place under the Convention system, where tolerance and broad mindedness are the acknowledged hallmarks of democratic society, for automatic disenfranchisement based purely on what might offend public opinion.

    This standard of tolerance does not prevent a democratic society from taking steps to protect itself against activities intended to destroy the rights or freedoms set forth in the Convention. Article 3 of Protocol No. 1, which enshrines the individual’s capacity to influence the composition of the law-making power, does not therefore exclude that restrictions on electoral rights could be imposed on an individual who has, for example, seriously abused a public position or whose conduct threatened to undermine the rule of law or democratic foundations … The severe measure of disenfranchisement must not, however, be resorted to lightly and the principle of proportionality requires a discernible and sufficient link between the sanction and the conduct and circumstances of the individual concerned. … As in other contexts, an independent court, applying an adversarial procedure, provides a strong safeguard against arbitrariness.”
    Read the pages 3,4,5. Cases concerning the United Kingdom,Austria, Italy, Turkey,Russia, and Bulgaria.

    --
    In fact, Biden is not Bernie Sanders,
    The folks at the top are not bad guys... wealthy Americans are just as patriotic.
    Sure, Biden.
    Last edited by Ludicus; May 03, 2019 at 05:44 PM.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Are you saying Bernie isn't patriotic!? He's a 1%, Ludicus. He has more houses than most people do cars. He makes more in a month than most people earn in a year. If I recall correctly, Biden was going to sell his house to cover his son's medical expenses, but then Obama told him not to and offered to give him the money he needed.
    Last edited by Prodromos; May 03, 2019 at 06:18 PM.
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  19. #59
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I mean prisoners can’t vote in the UK and we’re better for it in my opinion. When you go to prison the point is that you lose some of your rights.
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  20. #60
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I mean prisoners can’t vote in the UK and we’re better for it in my opinion. When you go to prison the point is that you lose some of your rights.
    So you believe a non violent offender sent to jail over a gram of weed or someone who's yet to be convicted but can't afford bail should lose their rights the same as a hardened killer or a sex offender?
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