View Poll Results: Which Democratic candidates do you prefer?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • Michael Bennet

    1 2.63%
  • Joe Biden

    5 13.16%
  • Cory Booker

    0 0%
  • Steve Bullock

    1 2.63%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    1 2.63%
  • Julian Castro

    0 0%
  • Bill de Blasio

    0 0%
  • John Delaney

    2 5.26%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    9 23.68%
  • Kamala Harris

    0 0%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    2 5.26%
  • Wayne Messam

    0 0%
  • Robert Francis O'Rourke

    0 0%
  • Tim Ryan

    1 2.63%
  • Bernie Sanders

    12 31.58%
  • Joe Sestak

    0 0%
  • Tom Steyer

    0 0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    10 26.32%
  • Marianne Williamson

    1 2.63%
  • Andrew Yang

    7 18.42%
  • Someone else

    4 10.53%
  • Don't care

    7 18.42%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #461

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Libs are upset because Jack Dorsey has donated to Tulsi Gabbard (mainly) and Andrew Yang, aka some of the few candidates that are not crazy or evil.

  2. #462

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'm not sure if I would call the pageant prestigious. Nor can we conclusively say that she was stripped of the title because she is a "filthy Republican". One may certainly assume so, but she also gave plenty of openings to be attacked as a racist, Islamaphobe, etc. And no, asking a Hijab booth, "are you trying to get women used to being oppressed under Islam?" is not "measured" whatsoever. It's clearly an aggressive anti-Islam retort. Especially when it isn't accompanied by context that justifies such rhetoric. It's on Twitter, 140 characters.
    hijab is a symbol of stone age values and opression of women. Any decent person shoud be offended by the promotion and normalisation of such values.

  3. #463
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'm not sure if I would call the pageant prestigious. Nor can we conclusively say that she was stripped of the title because she is a "filthy Republican".
    That's true, but part of the reason was that she was a Republican. A Feminazi walking there and shouting her lungs out that these hijab-promoting women were promoting the treatment of women as animals would not have caused as much controversy.
    Of course, a Feminazi would never have taken part in a beauty pageant which is the very definition of objectifying women!
    But the damn hypocrisy of those guys in the pageant doesn't change what my main point here is:

    A lot of moderates in the area, people that watched the pageant etc etc., were made aware that the woman lost her title (partially) because she was Republican on bogus allegations about a statement that had nothing bad on it. And the Democrats can ill afford losing votes in Michigan. They may have won in 2018 but it's not a done deal. Such acts disenfranchise Democrat leaning moderates and energize Republican leaning moderates. It's not that someone that was voting Democrats for the past 20 years will show up in a MAGA hat etc but someone that would be torn between R and D may vote for Trump, while someone that would have voted for Democrats may instead stay home and not vote.

    PS. For the record, a beauty queen has every right to express her opinion that Hijabs are expressions of Islamic oppression and I agree with the statement. Trump manages to be seriously offensive in the few words that Tweeter charactercount allows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    In this case, she wouldn't "refuse to wear a cross". She'd say something dumb and offensive about Christianity instead.
    Really?
    Are you sure that if she said on Tweeter: "So you're telling me that it's now just a fashion accessory and not a religious thing? Or are you just trying to get women used to being oppressed under Christianity?”
    the progressives would call her Christianophobic?
    Not conservatives (there would be some that would call her Christianophobic), but Progressives?

    In my opinion, it is clear that the Beauty Pageant said "Crap, we haven't seen she's a Republican on time" (they haven't vetted her well and that's also documented) and quickly found a miiiinor reason to take her title.
    Did the Pageant do that because they were so obsessed with her political opinions? Oooor they did it because as a beauty pageant they are already on target of progressives and ultraconservatives alike? I can't imagine may Hijab-promoting Imams to be supportive of beauty pageants.

    There are plenty of things that are far more serious when it comes to the Democratic party.
    True. But Democrats can ill afford to lose votes in a battleground state and this is simply a loss for them because of the way the candidates move for the primaries. And while this is too "Ground level" for presidential candidates, there are local politicians with a lot of power that should be more concerned.
    Because of the "Left flank" of the Democrat party, similar to the Tea Party of the Republicans from the other side, the Democrat candidates must appeal to radical firebrands or they risk losing the primaries.
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  4. #464
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Christianity is seen as a religion of power, and as a ‘white’ religion in the power matrix, which is why you have this different treatment of different religions
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  5. #465

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NosPortatArma View Post
    hijab is a symbol of stone age values and opression of women. Any decent person shoud be offended by the promotion and normalisation of such values.
    Same criticisms can be made of Christianity. This isn't about oppression.

  6. #466

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    That's true, but part of the reason was that she was a Republican. A Feminazi walking there and shouting her lungs out that these hijab-promoting women were promoting the treatment of women as animals would not have caused as much controversy.
    Of course, a Feminazi would never have taken part in a beauty pageant which is the very definition of objectifying women!
    But the damn hypocrisy of those guys in the pageant doesn't change what my main point here is:

    A lot of moderates in the area, people that watched the pageant etc etc., were made aware that the woman lost her title (partially) because she was Republican on bogus allegations about a statement that had nothing bad on it. And the Democrats can ill afford losing votes in Michigan. They may have won in 2018 but it's not a done deal. Such acts disenfranchise Democrat leaning moderates and energize Republican leaning moderates. It's not that someone that was voting Democrats for the past 20 years will show up in a MAGA hat etc but someone that would be torn between R and D may vote for Trump, while someone that would have voted for Democrats may instead stay home and not vote.

    PS. For the record, a beauty queen has every right to express her opinion that Hijabs are expressions of Islamic oppression and I agree with the statement. Trump manages to be seriously offensive in the few words that Tweeter charactercount allows.
    Nobody took away her right to an opinion. Is she in jail? Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned, she gained not just exposure, but improved prospects of employment as a result of this "tragedy". Faux outrage over this injustice is about as genuine as Russian state-run media.


    Really?
    Are you sure that if she said on Tweeter: "So you're telling me that it's now just a fashion accessory and not a religious thing? Or are you just trying to get women used to being oppressed under Christianity?Ē
    the progressives would call her Christianophobic?
    Not conservatives (there would be some that would call her Christianophobic), but Progressives?
    And you think Progressives getting over Christianity is a bad thing? Lol. Progressives getting worked up about this isn't about them being Muslim. It's about them stressing tolerance. Plenty of women who wear Hijbas aren't being oppressed at home, it's a personal choice. No, in this case, it would be Evangelicals and Republicans moaning about how somebody is trying to invoke "White Guilt" instead.

    And by the way, I doubt a vocal progressive journalist who made some anti-Christian remark, would get invited to Republican parties. Nor do I think that's wrong either. Just like I don't think Catholic churches firing closet gays, necessarily a bad thing. They're entitled to their own standards.

    In my opinion, it is clear that the Beauty Pageant said "Crap, we haven't seen she's a Republican on time" (they haven't vetted her well and that's also documented) and quickly found a miiiinor reason to take her title.
    Did the Pageant do that because they were so obsessed with her political opinions? Oooor they did it because as a beauty pageant they are already on target of progressives and ultraconservatives alike? I can't imagine may Hijab-promoting Imams to be supportive of beauty pageants.
    I don't care why the Pageant did something. I wouldn't care if the Pageant put up a sign that barred all Republicans from entering. Nor would I care about Chick-Fil-A refusing to serve gays and lesbians. As far as I'm concerned, if the Pageant wants to stress their commitment to what they call "tolerance" and "multiculturalism" then they are doing the right thing.

    True. But Democrats can ill afford to lose votes in a battleground state and this is simply a loss for them because of the way the candidates move for the primaries. And while this is too "Ground level" for presidential candidates, there are local politicians with a lot of power that should be more concerned.
    Because of the "Left flank" of the Democrat party, similar to the Tea Party of the Republicans from the other side, the Democrat candidates must appeal to radical firebrands or they risk losing the primaries.
    Small headlines like these are very small factors in campaign politics. Fact is, Democrats suck at playing offense, whereas Republicans are good at it and do it all the time. Instead of focusing on "not offending" key demographics, you should be attacking the very foundations of the Republican party and becoming politically ruthless. As far as I can tell, Republicans have far more party discipline, they are much better at coordinating. Instead of focusing on being morally righteous and whatnot, Democrats should focus more on winning. At the very least, pack the court with decent and moderate men instead of focusing on balance. Start building the America you envision instead of compromising with opponents who will never give you the same benefit.

  7. #467

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Republicans suck at boycotting. If they were any better, companies wouldn't engage in woke bs at all. Instead they do it, lose money and find excuses to blame because the boycotting is mostly at individual level.

    I praise Trump for constantly calling out how much liberal media suck though. That's well deserved.

  8. #468

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Same criticisms can be made of Christianity. This isn't about oppression.
    no, christians to their credit generally dont cover their women in rags. It can be made more of historical christianity, not modern one in the west. At once we should dispel the notion that all religions are the same. it is abundandtly clear that no religion is as agressively reactionary as islam today, and that needs to be called out.

  9. #469

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Same criticisms can be made of Christianity. This isn't about oppression.
    Yet we don't see modern Christians stone adulterers or sacrifice their children to Yahweh like some "prophets" from the Bible did. Objectively, Christianity is much less intrusive then Islam is in society.

  10. #470
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    No, in this case, it would be Evangelicals and Republicans moaning about how somebody is trying to invoke "White Guilt" instead.
    I don’t think that’s likely, considering Kathy isn’t white.

    And how is what she said comparable to saying something anti-christian?
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nope. There is nothing to suggest dramatically that his heart is giving out. His heart attack is a testament to how well he can recover from something like that.

  11. #471

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NosPortatArma View Post
    no, christians to their credit generally dont cover their women in rags. It can be made more of historical christianity, not modern one in the west. At once we should dispel the notion that all religions are the same. it is abundandtly clear that no religion is as agressively reactionary as islam today, and that needs to be called out.
    Religions are all different, in the same way that men and women are different. The difference between Western society and other societies have much less to do with religion, and more to do with secularism, rational thinking, and economic development.

    I'm also puzzled by "Muslim aggression". Muslim conquer no territory, they do not exploit Christian countries, nor do they have any designs to do so. The worst we can say about muslim countries in general, is that they are poor, they do not care much for women's rights, and they have issues with their neighbors, notably Israel. These traits aren't unique to Muslim countries, plenty of backwards and poor states share the same issues. Except instead of Israel, they have issues with other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Yet we don't see modern Christians stone adulterers or sacrifice their children to Yahweh like some "prophets" from the Bible did. Objectively, Christianity is much less intrusive then Islam is in society.
    It is less intrusive because of secular institutions and cultural norms, not because Christianity is so much more superior. As far as I'm concerned, all religion is backwards, foolish, and serves as a constraint on human progress. That Western society is so prosperous compared to the rest of the world isn't because of Christianity, in fact today it's in spite of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    I donít think thatís likely, considering Kathy isnít white.

    And how is what she said comparable to saying something anti-christian?
    You don't have to be White to invoke White Guilty. I don't understand your second question. Her tweet was an aggressive criticism of Islam, in fact, women who willingly wear the Hijab and like their cultural heritage may easily find it offensive. I dont have an issue with what she said. I also don't have an issue with other people finding what she said offensive (it isn't much of a reach to find her comments offensive), and stripping her of awards that they gave her. In fact, if you really want to stand on principle, everyone should boycott pageants until they deliver a formal apology. But we won't, because mobilizing everyone is hard and not worth it, over what is essentially a non-issue.

  12. #472

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Religions are all different, in the same way that men and women are different.
    no, they are different in that they literally have different views of how the world works, what god(s) want them to do, how to properly live a life. this matters a lot, specific ideas matter a lot.

    The difference between Western society and other societies have much less to do with religion, and more to do with secularism, rational thinking, and economic development.
    islam is s major reason why those things are not found in great abundance in the middle east.

    I'm also puzzled by "Muslim aggression".
    the religion is aggressively seeking to expand its influence. Muslims are a notoriously hard group to assimilate, because muslim identity usually is stroger than any other. they actively seek political power, they seek accomodation for their way of doing things (segregated bath houses, halal etc), they actively encourage conversion, they are very suspicous of outside influence on their communities. generally speaking of course. All this talk about muslims in recent decades, the problems with assimilation and their problematic values... its not because muslims are unfairly treated.. its because islam itself is problematic. no other group has these kinds of issues.

  13. #473

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Really? You think Islam itself is what limited the Middle East from progressing politically? Not like, I don't know, the geopolitical history of the area?

    Was the Golden Age of Islam just a myth?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  14. #474

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Really? You think Islam itself is what limited the Middle East from progressing politically? Not like, I don't know, the geopolitical history of the area?

    Was the Golden Age of Islam just a myth?
    yes, its quite interesting actually. basically, in earlier days, islam had rival schools of interpretation, some of which were much more tolerant and friendly toward science, which explains their golden age. but after that, conservstive schools took power. and furthermore, when the christians started to surpass the muslims, they could not reconcile being backwards with being a chosen people. they could not simply copy western ideas because they were infidel ideas.

    I recommend reading "What went wrong?" by Bernard Lewis. also here is a good youtubd video
    https://youtu.be/60JboffOhaw

  15. #475
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I'm also puzzled by "Muslim aggression". Muslim conquer no territory, they do not exploit Christian countries, nor do they have any designs to do so.
    Because if they tried, they would get their butt kicked. That's all.
    Christian countries are powerful countries and despite the religion being peaceful and not calling for holy wars, they bypass "love thy neighbor" and "thou shall not kill" parts and exploit the poor and weak countries regardless of local faith for $$$$, resources and power. They do it for Christian poor countries (Latin America, Africa), they do it for Muslim poor countries and they do it for atheist poor countries (Vietnam and the communist poor states under Russian influence).

    If France or England or Germany for example, really wanted and they had the popular will, they could wipe the floor with middle east countries as they are simply much more powerful. Yes, France or England can win a war against say, Egypt and turn it to a colony again. Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Syria cannot conquer parts of Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by NosPortatArma View Post
    All this talk about muslims in recent decades, the problems with assimilation and their problematic values... its not because muslims are unfairly treated.. its because islam itself is problematic. no other group has these kinds of issues.
    Weeeeell... it's not like the Rohingya people that are currently being genocided were bothering anybody. They were just an easy target for the Buddhists.

    So, what the actually not peaceful muslim countries do? Asymmetric warfare tactics so that they would make an attack on them quite costly = not appealing. Iran for example follows that doctrine. Iraq followed the same doctrine which is the main reason USA didn't simply wipe the floor with Assad and Gadaffi in a 3-month campaign in 2010 ... because they would be bogged in there for 10 years fighting guerrillas while there would be terrorist attacks back home.
    Last edited by alhoon; July 21, 2019 at 08:06 PM.
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  16. #476

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    @Nos
    You just described politics. Islam was that way, but then politics happened and now it is this way because the dominate interpretation of the religion changed. So it isn't about the religion having to be a certain way, it can interpreted however, it is about the political situation on the ground. In more recent history, the Middle East has been continuously messed up since the hackneyed carving of their nations post Ottoman Empire. Isn't that more relevant to their political woes than the general concepts of Islam?
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  17. #477
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    This opinion piece describes what I think is the major sticking point for democrats in 2020.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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  18. #478
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    According to liberals, Islamic law doesn't oppress wamyn and our women should learn to wear Hijab to be culturally sensitive. And people still think that my idea of splitting society is extreme.
    And you can show an I'm liberal card that has this on its back bullet points?
    Last edited by conon394; July 21, 2019 at 11:20 PM.
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  19. #479

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NosPortatArma View Post
    no, they are different in that they literally have different views of how the world works, what god(s) want them to do, how to properly live a life. this matters a lot, specific ideas matter a lot.
    They are all systems of worship. Islam and Christianity aren't particularly responsible for living conditions in places of their worship. The government that's in charge of those places, and the laws they institute are. As far as I'm concerned, domestic terrorism (with a large portion of the perpetrators being Christian) are a much greater threat than Islamic terrorism to United States.

    islam is s major reason why those things are not found in great abundance in the middle east.
    Christianity is not the reason why those things are found in the West. As far as I'm concerned, we have progressed in spite of Christianity, not because of it. Though I will applaud Catholic contributions to science and rational thought, in the same way that I will applaud Islam's contributions to those same things many centuries earlier.

    the religion is aggressively seeking to expand its influence. Muslims are a notoriously hard group to assimilate, because muslim identity usually is stroger than any other. they actively seek political power, they seek accomodation for their way of doing things (segregated bath houses, halal etc), they actively encourage conversion, they are very suspicous of outside influence on their communities. generally speaking of course. All this talk about muslims in recent decades, the problems with assimilation and their problematic values... its not because muslims are unfairly treated.. its because islam itself is problematic. no other group has these kinds of issues.
    Expand its influence? Which Muslim country has annexed Christian land? Which Muslim country has designs to annex Christian land?

    What about televangelists, missionaries, and radical christian terrorism? Do they get a pass? Or do their efforts to spread Christianity and enforcing their values on others not count because Christianity is the "superior" religion? Islam is about as much of a threat to Western countries as neo-nazis are to the existence of Israel.

  20. #480

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Because if they tried, they would get their butt kicked. That's all.
    Christian countries are powerful countries and despite the religion being peaceful and not calling for holy wars, they bypass "love thy neighbor" and "thou shall not kill" parts and exploit the poor and weak countries regardless of local faith for $$$$, resources and power. They do it for Christian poor countries (Latin America, Africa), they do it for Muslim poor countries and they do it for atheist poor countries (Vietnam and the communist poor states under Russian influence).

    If France or England or Germany for example, really wanted and they had the popular will, they could wipe the floor with middle east countries as they are simply much more powerful. Yes, France or England can win a war against say, Egypt and turn it to a colony again. Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Syria cannot conquer parts of Europe.
    "That's all". Uhh no alhoon. That's basically the de-facto reason why states don't attack each other. The International system is a place of anarchy. If Muslim and Christian countries switched places tomorrow, it'd be Islamic countries railing about the radical Christians and it'd be Christian countries being economically exploited by Muslims.

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