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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #421
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Rofl, you didn't even know what intersectionality is, nor critical race theory, nor critical theory before I even mentioned them. Now your line of defense is ''it doesn't have to be Marxist''. That's bs.
    And yet you don't understand any of the three as i demonstrated. Its not hard to prove you wrong considering you often don't actually read your sources. Nothing shows her theory being based off Marxism. Nor does critical theory have to be based off the Frankfurt school of thought. Face it. You sat there and went on and on how wrong i was when you you were just talking out of your ass.



    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    You have abudantly demonstrated ignorance about the ideology of your own party, which you try to deflect with ''you fear my Feminazis that want to destroy your society with Marxist feminsm''.
    Of course you support empty slogans like ''the future is female''. They don't require you to think, because if you had to think you had to educate yourself on what the party actually wants.
    I'm actually not registered to either party so no ignorance here. I never even said i supported the slogan. Its just a slogan. Its just a big hint that she's a feminist.

    I think you need to educate yourself about feminism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    This is exactly why Trump is a necessity. He exposed the dark side of liberals: the Neo-Marxist infection that filthy vermins like AOC and your academia is using to infiltrate the nation's institutions and destroy it from within. The one thing he has to do is to simply say: ''Liberals hate capitalism, liberals hate freedoms, liberals hate our Constitution, liberals hate white people, liberals hate the family and they want to destroy all of this, they are trying to turn America into a Soviet dystopia and patriots need to rally to stop this''.

    Then the ball is in your side's court. Let the Communist Antifa ''punch Nazis''. The one great enemy of America is communism and that's your party's goal.
    Typical Basil rant about liberals destroying America. Same alt-right logic we've heard before. Its like you practice some kind of Neo-McCarthyism. Same old fear mongering for an imaginary threat.

  2. #422
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    How so?
    Beating people in the streets for having the wrong politics is a rather Nazi like thing to do. I will grant Nazis are not the only ones to do this, but the association is well established. As someone who has been accused of being a Nazi yourself, you should have a at least a little bit of self interest in not having too many people believing its a appropriate thing to do.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; July 17, 2019 at 04:41 PM.
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  3. #423

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Beating people in the streets for having the wrong politics is a rather Nazi like thing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Punching Nazis doesn't mean you will punch everyone who disagrees with you. Similarly, while I don't particularly follow Antifa and their activities, they tend to clash with far-right protesters, not "Americans" who go about their day-to-day business.

    Do you think people who get accused of being a Nazi on the internet are getting punched as they walk down the street? Or is it people actually promoting Nazi stuff at political rallies getting into conflict with Antifa?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  4. #424

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Beating people in the streets for having the wrong politics is a rather Nazi like thing to do. I will grant Nazis are not the only ones to do this, but the association is well established. As someone who has been accused of being a Nazi yourself, you should have a at least a little bit of self interest in not having too many people believing its a appropriate thing to do.
    Political violence wasn't started or popularized by Nazis, nor is there any association between the two. The fact that Antifa violently respond to far-right movements is a sign of a healthy and responsible polity, not authoritarian groupthink. Indeed, political violence is often the most effective and most responsible method to prevent normalization of abhorrent ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Do you think people who get accused of being a Nazi on the internet are getting punched as they walk down the street? Or is it people actually promoting Nazi stuff at political rallies getting into conflict with Antifa?
    Antifa specifically target far-right rallies. The way the "Right" portrays Antifa, one would get an idea that there is an epidemic of left-wing terrorism.

  5. #425

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Political violence wasn't started or popularized by Nazis, nor is there any association between the two. The fact that Antifa violently respond to far-right movements is a sign of a healthy and responsible polity, not authoritarian groupthink. Indeed, political violence is often the most effective and most responsible method to prevent normalization of abhorrent ideas.

    Antifa specifically target far-right rallies. The way the "Right" portrays Antifa, one would get an idea that there is an epidemic of left-wing terrorism.
    > There is no association between the Nazis and political violence.
    > Violence is a sign of a "healthy and responsible polity".

    I think we've officially entered the twilight zone guys.

  6. #426
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    What exactly is the great horror of "punching Nazis?
    The same ‘horror’ of Nazis attacking Communists.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I wont lie, this is the last place I expected Lucifer to reveal his true form. But I can't say I'm not pleased.

  7. #427

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The same ‘horror’ of Nazis attacking Communists.
    I don't get it, if a communist revolutionary who fervently push violent policies gets punched in the face at a political rally, I don't particularly care about that either.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  8. #428
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It’s just bad to hit people for their politics.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I wont lie, this is the last place I expected Lucifer to reveal his true form. But I can't say I'm not pleased.

  9. #429

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    I don't get it, if a communist revolutionary who fervently push violent policies gets punched in the face at a political rally, I don't particularly care about that either.
    We have laws against political violence to stop extremist paramilitaries from taking over the streets. You might not "get it" or "care" but history is perfectly clear on what happens when the state is either indifferent toward, or incapable of, opposing factional or sectarian violence.

  10. #430
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Do you think people who get accused of being a Nazi on the internet are getting punched as they walk down the street?
    Andy Ngo was being accused on the internet of being a fascist.

    Or is it people actually promoting Nazi stuff at political rallies getting into conflict with Antifa?
    I think there are a lot fewer Nazis out and about than commonly imagined. The fact that Antifa think of themselves as anti fascists does not impute that they are accurate in their assessment of other people's political opinions.

    Political violence wasn't started or popularized by Nazis, nor is there any association between the two.
    I must say you have a higher opinion of Nazis than me.

    The fact that Antifa violently respond to far-right movements is a sign of a healthy and responsible polity, not authoritarian groupthink.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
    Last edited by Big War Bird; July 17, 2019 at 08:11 PM.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  11. #431

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    It’s just bad to hit people for their politics.
    Sure, if we want to be general about it, hitting people is generally bad. At the same time, we don't tend to see a bar fight as a particularly harrowing thing for society. Likewise, relatively minor violence at a political rally with extremists coming in to scream at each other does not seem to be a herald of the end times.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    We have laws against political violence to stop extremist paramilitaries from taking over the streets. You might not "get it" or "care" but history is perfectly clear on what happens when the state is either indifferent toward, or incapable of, opposing factional or sectarian violence.
    You misunderstand, I don't think political violence should be mainstreamed; if people are being killed or are being randomly attacked for merely holding private views, then that is pretty bad. People throwing things at each other at rallies or any other relatively minor expressions of violence among willing belligerents tend not to be so bad. Like, if Antifa kicked down the door to a private meeting of Nazis and started going at them with bats, what would be pretty severe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Andy Ngo was being accused on the internet of being a fascist.
    So are thousands if not millions of other people who don't get attacked when they go outside.

    And I may be wrong here, I haven't given particular attention to the event, but wasn't there the accusation that was trying to identify members of Antifa while there? If that is true, he is hardly a bystander at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    I think there are a lot fewer Nazis out and about than commonly imagined. The fact that Antifa think of themselves as anti fascists does not impute that they are accurate in their assessment of other people's political opinions.
    Well 'Nazis' are a bit of a nebulous category in the US (in a similar way to 'Communists') as there isn't much of a formal Nazi political entity, but their platforms certainly exist. Ethnic nationalist ideas caught on way more than I thought it would. But sure, there are probably not many dedicated Nazis in the US. You could just flip that, though, and say there is much fewer Antifa than commonly imagined.
    Last edited by The spartan; July 17, 2019 at 09:16 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  12. #432

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Andy Ngo was being accused on the internet of being a fascist.
    The completely and totally un-pathetic un-coward un-nazi antifa does seem to engage in a lot of masked gang defensive actions from behind with weapons on people they claim are nazis, but arent.

    I wonder if they have done any of that to the, say, Hammerskins, lately...

  13. #433

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    A bit off topic to the current discussions on this thread, but Jake Tapper of CNN has cited an anonymous Democrat House Democrat as saying:

    “The president won this one,” said House Dem 1 of the Trump v Squad (AOC, Tlaib, Omar & Pressley) showdown. “What the president has done is politically brilliant. Pelosi was trying to marginalize these folks and the president has now identified the entire party with them.”
    The Squad is a poison pill for the Democrat party.

  14. #434

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    > There is no association between the Nazis and political violence.
    > Violence is a sign of a "healthy and responsible polity".

    I think we've officially entered the twilight zone guys.
    Explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The same ‘horror’ of Nazis attacking Communists.
    There is a difference between the government violently suppressing all forms of dissent, and protesters clashing against each other. So I disagree, it's not quite the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    We have laws against political violence to stop extremist paramilitaries from taking over the streets. You might not "get it" or "care" but history is perfectly clear on what happens when the state is either indifferent toward, or incapable of, opposing factional or sectarian violence.
    I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion at hand. As far as concern over extremist paramilitaries, I'd be far more worried about far-right "militias" who are already active in their mission. That is, harassing and patrolling Southern borders, most often with out a shred of legitimate authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Andy Ngo was being accused on the internet of being a fascist.
    Sure, but he's not a big opponent of Fascism either. As far as I can tell, the guy regularly focuses on left-wing activities that he perceives as "violent" without a similar focus on any right-wing extremism. It wouldn't be a wild guess to say he finds a lot of alt-right views objectionable.

    Do I think he "deserved" the beating? No, it's a pity he did. But I'm not going to act like some holy chalice has been spilled. It hasn't.

    I think there are a lot fewer Nazis out and about than commonly imagined. The fact that Antifa think of themselves as anti fascists does not impute that they are accurate in their assessment of other people's political opinions.
    Why don't you show me where Antifa showed up to beat up innocent people instead of far-right gatherings.

    I must say you have a higher opinion of Nazis than me.
    Nazis came into power democratically, and then quickly used their monopoly on force to consolidate it and instill an authoritarian regime. A far cry from political violence we see most often.



    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    The completely and totally un-pathetic un-coward un-nazi antifa does seem to engage in a lot of masked gang defensive actions from behind with weapons on people they claim are nazis, but arent.

    I wonder if they have done any of that to the, say, Hammerskins, lately...
    Far-right groups aren't always Nazis, but they're not very far from them either.

  15. #435
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Do I think he "deserved" the beating? No, it's a pity he did. But I'm not going to act like some holy chalice has been spilled. It hasn't.
    Are you saying it’s not a big deal that a journalist has been hospitalised for journalism?

    Nazis came into power democratically, and then quickly used their monopoly on force to consolidate it and instill an authoritarian regime. A far cry from political violence we see most often.
    hoooooooooooooo boyyyyyyyyy

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altona_Bloody_Sunday
    Following a policy of appeasing the Nazi Party, Franz von Papen's government on 28 June 1932 lifted a ban on the SA and SS which had been in place since April. This led to recurrent riots and open street fighting between Nazis and Communists.

    In July, an SA and SS demonstration through the workers' quarter of Altona was approved by
    Social Democratic police president Otto Eggerstedt, despite warnings by the Communists. Eggerstedt himself was on an election trip, and his deputy was on vacation. As expected, it triggered a major confrontation between 7,000 National Socialists and Altona's Communist residents, leading to massive police intervention. Eighteen people, including two SA members, were killed, most of them by police bullets. The riots were used by Papen as an excuse for his Prussian Coup on 20 July.
    Far right march, far left respond.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
    The Sturmabteilung (SA; German pronunciation: [ˈʃtʊɐ̯mʔapˌtaɪlʊŋ], literally Storm Detachment, was the Nazi Party's original paramilitary. It played a significant role in Adolf Hitler's rise to power in the 1920s and 1930s. Its primary purposes were providing protection for Nazi rallies and assemblies, disrupting the meetings of opposing parties, fighting against the paramilitary units of the opposing parties, especially the Red Front Fighters League (Rotfrontkämpferbund) of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD), and intimidating Romani, trade unionists, and, especially, Jews – for instance, during the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses.
    The precursor to the Sturmabteilung had acted informally and on an ad hoc basis for some time before this. Hitler, with an eye always to helping the party to grow through propaganda, convinced the leadership committee to invest in an advertisement in the Münchener Beobachter (later renamed the Völkischer Beobachter) for a mass meeting in the Hofbräuhaus, to be held on 16 October 1919. Some 70 people attended, and a second such meeting was advertised for 13 November in the Eberl-Bräu beer hall. About 130 people attended; there were hecklers, but Hitler's military friends promptly ejected them by force, and the agitators "flew down the stairs with gashed heads". The next year, on 24 February, he announced the party's Twenty-Five Point program at a mass meeting of some 2,000 people at the Hofbräuhaus. Protesters tried to shout Hitler down, but his former army companions, armed with rubber truncheons, ejected the dissenters. The basis for the SA had been formed.
    The Nazi Party held a large public meeting in the Munich Hofbräuhaus on 4 November 1921, which also attracted many Communists and other enemies of the Nazis. After Hitler had spoken for some time, the meeting erupted into a mêlée in which a small company of SA thrashed the opposition. The Nazis called this event the Saalschlacht("meeting hall battle"), and it assumed legendary proportions in SA lore with the passage of time. Thereafter, the group was officially known as the Sturmabteilung.
    Members of the SA were, throughout the 1920s and into the 1930s, often involved in street fights called Zusammenstöße (collisions) with members of the Communist Party (KPD).

    https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-866793.html
    Goebbels had been in office for hardly a week before he organized a march through the Neukölln district, a communist stronghold, that devolved into a street riot.

    Goebbels wanted Hitler's party to show its colors in Berlin, which he described as "the reddest city in Europe besides Moscow." Together, the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) captured 52.2 percent of the vote in the 1925 municipal elections. Berlin's new Nazi leader decided to combat the left's superiority in numbers with a frontal attack.

    He went to the Pharussäle, a meeting hall often used by the KPD for its mass rallies in Berlin's Wedding district, and gave a speech on the subject of "The Collapse of the Bourgeois Class State." This provoked the communists.



    On Feb. 11, 1927, the Nazi Party meeting turned into a violent brawl between the two groups. Beer glasses, chairs and tables flew through the hall, and severely injured people were left lying covered with blood on the floor.

    Despite the injuries, it was a triumph for Goebbels, whose thugs beat up about 200 communists and drove them from the hall.

    For the Nazi Party, the brownshirts -- who included the unemployed, the underemployed, apprentices and high-school students -- were "political soldiers." In Goebbel's view, their task was the "conquest of the street." In the melting pot of Berlin, these primarily young men were supposed to reconcile and embody two previously hostile worldviews: nationalism, which Goebbels believed had to be "reshaped in a revolutionary way," and a "true socialism" free of Marxism.

    Goebbels, who was unable to fight in World War I because of his deformed right leg, proved to be the top soldier of an army fighting an insidious civil war. During it, the Nazis survived severe challenges. Five days after Hitler's speech at the Clou, the police banned the Nazi Party in Berlin. But that didn't stop its ascent. Goebbels, who had read the memoirs of August Bebel, a Marxist politician and co-founder of the Social Democratic Party (SPD) in Germany, had learned a lesson from the Social Democrats' struggle against Bismarck's anti-socialist laws.

    The Nazis embraced and exploited street violence for their own aims.

    > There is no association between the Nazis and political violence.
    > Violence is a sign of a "healthy and responsible polity".
    Last edited by Aexodus; July 18, 2019 at 01:30 AM.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    I wont lie, this is the last place I expected Lucifer to reveal his true form. But I can't say I'm not pleased.

  16. #436

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    How so?



    Punching Nazis doesn't mean you will punch everyone who disagrees with you. Similarly, while I don't particularly follow Antifa and their activities, they tend to clash with far-right protesters, not "Americans" who go about their day-to-day business.
    Andy Ngo and an old white dude are the last victims of Antifa aggressions. See related thread. Just one question so that we can solve this quickly: are they Nazis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    I don't recall any of these women of color campaigning for exclusion of white working-class Americans. Quite the opposite. They seem to support policies that would benefit people of all color. Of course you could spin minimum wages raises as an attempt to destroy the working class, but you could do that with anything. It'd be more useful if you could find something explicit or closer to the source to support your assertions rather than speculations.
    Open borders doesn't benefit any working class citizen or even low income legal immigrants, especially white ones who are hammered by lower wages, congestion in public goods and crime. Similarly, offshoring jobs to third world countries doesnt benefit them at all. Reparations, aka making the white working class pay for the deeds of the rich white liberals, certainly does not benefit them at all. Diversity quotas also make sure that white working class kids are left out, because the quotas for whites are filled by rich white liberals with the correct ideas. Finally, as Hillary said, green policies will put a lot of (white) people out of work, namely miners etc. Your side has launched an all out economic and ethnic displacement war against white people.

    The solution for the white working class is to expel white liberals from society.

  17. #437

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Nazis came into power democratically, and then quickly used their monopoly on force to consolidate it and instill an authoritarian regime. A far cry from political violence we see most often.
    Cool historical illiteracy. Again.

  18. #438
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    This guy seems to have hit the nail on the head.

    I’m struck at how many people have come up to me recently and said, “Trump’s going to get re-elected, isn’t he?” And in each case, when I drilled down to ask why, I bumped into the Democratic presidential debates in June. I think a lot of Americans were shocked by some of the things they heard there. I was.

    I was shocked that so many candidates in the party whose nominee I was planning to support want to get rid of the private health insurance covering some 250 million Americans and have “Medicare for all” instead. I think we should strengthen Obamacare and eventually add a public option.

    I was shocked that so many were ready to decriminalize illegal entry into our country. I think people should have to ring the doorbell before they enter my house or my country.

    I was shocked at all those hands raised in support of providing comprehensive health coverage to undocumented immigrants. I think promises we’ve made to our fellow Americans should take priority, like to veterans in need of better health care.

    And I was shocked by how feeble was front-runner Joe Biden’s response to the attack from Kamala Harris — and to the more extreme ideas promoted by those to his left.

    Dear Democrats: This is not complicated! Just nominate a decent, sane person, one committed to reunifying the country and creating more good jobs, a person who can gain the support of the independents, moderate Republicans and suburban women who abandoned Donald Trump in the midterms and thus swung the House of Representatives to the Democrats and could do the same for the presidency. And that candidate can win!

    But please, spare me the revolution! It can wait. Win the presidency, hold the House and narrow the spread in the Senate, and a lot of good things still can be accomplished. “No,” you say, “the left wants a revolution now!” O.K., I’ll give the left a revolution now: four more years of Donald Trump.

    That will be a revolution.

    Four years of Trump feeling validated in all the crazy stuff he’s done and said. Four years of Trump unburdened by the need to run for re-election and able to amplify his racism, make Ivanka secretary of state, appoint even more crackpots to his cabinet and likely get to name two right-wing Supreme Court justices under the age of 40.

    Yes sir, that will be a revolution!

    It will be an overthrow of all the norms, values, rules and institutions that we cherish, that made us who we are and that have united us in this common project called the United States of America.

    If the fear of that doesn’t motivate the Democratic Party’s base, then shame on those people. Not all elections are equal. Some elections are a vote for great changes — like the Great Society. Others are a vote to save the country. This election is the latter.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/opinion/trump-2020.html

    This election is (was?) the Democrats to lose and they're doing a good job at doing exactly that by pandering to the increasingly unsufferable wing exemplifed by the likes of 'The Squad'. As a commentator on the article quoted:

    From Republican Chris Truax's column on how to beat Trump: "There are four states that matter in 2020: Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida. Win three out of four of those states and Trump is a one-term president. No matter how popular something might be with activists in Los Angeles or donors in Manhattan, it’s dead weight or worse if it isn’t a winner with Rotary Club members in Kenosha, Wisconsin."
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  19. #439

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Basil has been saying it for 10 pages.

  20. #440

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    Basil has been saying it for 10 pages.
    Half the world has been saying it for the past five years.

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