USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

[alhoon]

No, I want this done in August when things would be much better, or completely cancelled if things are still bad.

[RedGuard]

Really. You think they should have thousands of people cram into a convention center in these times? I really have no sympathy for you if your solution in these lose-lose political times is to create a virus hot-spot and then send those people back to their 55 odd states and territories and undo every piece of effort that at least most of us have been going through. You want to do this for every political party, you got your own country.

yeah instead the democratic party should just announce whatever candidate they pick and cancel the primaries from now to perpetuity so that we don't have to deal with democracy any more

[Heathen Hammer]

They will have to make it online (at least I hope to they will, you can expect all kinds of insanity from those people).
Of course, the losing side, which, let's not kid ourselves, will be Sanders, will claim that results were tempered with. And let's be honest, looking back at Iowa :wub:, it will be tempered with.
And let's not kid ourselves about all negative criticism being written off to Russian trolls, alt-right ghosts and of course, the Jews Republicans.
In other words, we already know what will happen. But at least, this way we won't risk disease spreading, which is more important then perceived integrity of special olympics between a fiscally senile Sanders and literally senile Biden.

[RedGuard]

Is the general notion of state-funded healthcare not Marxist while Medicare for All is? Why? What's the difference that makes one Marxist and the other not? You're not ignoring my question because it's a failed gotcha attempt but because the point pierces a stake down your argument's metaphorical throat.

it must be the latter, since Trump is using single payer healthcare to help pay for the coronavirus at the moment. We know that Trump would never use a leftoid ploy like single payer to bankrupt the United States, and hes not a marxist unless you're David Frum.

[Heathen Hammer]

Temporary measure caused by severe crisis caused by a foreign communist regime is sure sign that capitalism has failed us.

[RedGuard]

Temporary measure caused by severe crisis caused by a foreign communist regime is sure sign that capitalism has failed us

things must be pretty bad when marxism is needed to beat marxism

[Cope]

things must be pretty bad when marxism is needed to beat marxism

Adopting collectivist measures in times of crisis isn't "Marxism".

[Infidel144]

It is not particularly surprising, Trump had been in favour of some form single payer for decades.

[RedGuard]

Adopting collectivist measures in times of crisis isn't "Marxism"

I know its not, and neither is any form of socialized medicine. But its funny how so much debate goes into what is affordable and what isn't until American capitalism fails to stand the pressure. Almost like socialist policies work to correct capitalism's mistakes.

It is not particularly surprising, Trump has been in favour of some form single payer for decades.

shhh you're not supposed to remember what he said prior to being elected.

[Gaidin]

Image of the day:
https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/sta...02498501836802

[Heathen Hammer]

things must be pretty bad when marxism is needed to beat marxism

I guess your complaints about Trump have no ground then. :^)

[RedGuard]

which complaints?

[Cope]

I know its not, and neither is any form of socialized medicine. But its funny how so much debate goes into what is affordable and what isn't until American capitalism fails to stand the pressure. Almost like socialist policies work to correct capitalism's mistakes.

1. Of course we shift our priorities and policies when, as a consequence of crisis conditions, orthodox responses prove to be insufficient. Though the idea that we should permanently adopt a crisis mentality to public spending would be ruinous (as this shutdown is threatening to be).

2. What Americans called "socialized medicine" (which, despite Sanders' claims, is not a form of "socialism") can only exist because of the wealth that market economies create. It is also generally reliant on the medical innovations which are made by pioneers and researchers in the private sector (who will undoubtedly play a role in blunting the impact of Covid-19). Nevertheless, the longer the current conditions persist, the worse the long term prospects will be precisely because of the economic losses which are being suffered as a result of the quarantine. Since any economic system would suffer a catastrophic drop in productivity were it to sequester significant portions of its workforce, it is faulty to claim that socialism (non of the enacted policies are really socialist) is somehow correcting "capitalism's mistakes".

[RedGuard]

1. America is already in a permanent crisis mode called the war time economy that has existed since ww2

2. Marx argues the same thing. A socialist economy is only possible with a highly industrialized advanced capitalist state like America. For some reason its always been done in a semi-feudal backwater country, which is probably in some ways a refutation of his prescription but not his diagnosis. A system that is built on productivity always increasing is doomed to fail in the long run, it was only a matter of time. A system built on investor confidence and the worship of a line is also doomed to fail and it does frequently. What matters is that things are getting to the consumer and that the consumer has money to purchase it, which gets exponentially harder when you have a debt based economy where wages are stagnate but those at the top have doubled their wealth in that same time. Coronavirus was just the catalyst of this current economic crisis, it was going to crash eventually like it does every 10 years. Also its laughable to suggest that the reason healthcare is so expensive in the U.S. is because of muh research and pioneers.

my prediction is that coronavirus exposed a lot more weaknesses in the economy than Health care. I think there will be a massive restructuring after this over, which will probably mean many of those people are going to stay unemployed for a long time, if not permanently.

[Gaidin]

1. America is already in a permanent crisis mode called the war time economy that has existed since ww2

This is hardly a wartime economy. If it were we'd be forcing companies to make healthcare equipment enmasse for ourselves and then for the world. But we're not. Right now unemployment is up at least seven, possibly eight figures. You want to know how to get people jobs? Lend lease the world. It's not like the Soviet Union or Britain is fighting Germany. But there's A LOT OF COUNTRIES dealing with COVID-19 that don't have the production lines of China and don't have the ability of America, Canada, Britain, or EU Proper to bring up production lines for themselves within a few months. Lend lease the world.

[Heathen Hammer]

1. America is already in a permanent crisis mode called the war time economy that has existed since ww2

2. Marx argues the same thing. A socialist economy is only possible with a highly industrialized advanced capitalist state like America. For some reason its always been done in a semi-feudal backwater country, which is probably in some ways a refutation of his prescription but not his diagnosis. A system that is built on productivity always increasing is doomed to fail in the long run, it was only a matter of time. A system built on investor confidence and the worship of a line is also doomed to fail and it does frequently. What matters is that things are getting to the consumer and that the consumer has money to purchase it, which gets exponentially harder when you have a debt based economy where wages are stagnate but those at the top have doubled their wealth in that same time. Coronavirus was just the catalyst of this current economic crisis, it was going to crash eventually like it does every 10 years. Also its laughable to suggest that the reason healthcare is so expensive in the U.S. is because of muh research and pioneers.

my prediction is that coronavirus exposed a lot more weaknesses in the economy than Health care. I think there will be a massive restructuring after this over, which will probably mean many of those people are going to stay unemployed for a long time, if not permanently.

1. Actually US economy has been heavily disadvantaged since federal reserve became a thing.
2. Plenty of highly advanced industrialized nations were turned into semi-feudal backwater countries by socialism - from Warsaw Pact countries to Zimbabwe. The reason why healthcare is so expensive in US is because of over-regulation.

[Gaidin]

2. Plenty of highly advanced industrialized nations were turned into semi-feudal backwater countries by socialism - from Warsaw Pact countries to Zimbabwe. The reason why healthcare is so expensive in US is because of over-regulation.

Really?

You want to know the single best piece of "over-regulation" America's healthcare system could use? Put all insurance companies, healthcare companies, and hospitals on the same paperwork system.

[RedGuard]

This is hardly a wartime economy

it is though. 48 states produce military equipment. The military is the biggest drain on discretionary spending. and 45 cents out of every tax dollar goes to defense.

imagine if just half of that went to actually producing something relevant in the 21st century.

Plenty of highly advanced industrialized nations were turned into semi-feudal backwater countries by socialism

Im sorry but whatever balkan country you are rooting for was a semi-feudal backwater in the 20th century even before the warsaw pact.

[Gaidin]

it is though. 48 states produce military equipment.

You need to read up on the history of World War 2 if you really want to know what a war time economy is.

Trump tries to claim he's a "War Time President" and he's activated the Defense Production Act. But for what it can really do if Trump really wanted to be a "War Time President" and actually produce what this country needed, much less the world, he ain't done jack.

[RedGuard]

You need to read up on the history of World War 2 if you really want to know what a war time economy is.

so your argument is that we have to be producing military equipment at ww2 levels to be considered a war time economy? even though we spend more on military spending than the next 4 countries combined and are the biggest seller of arms in the world? ok

also the defense production act is . Its gonna do absolutely nothing for the United States but will keep the supply chains open for the rest of the world funded by American taxpayers