View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #2001
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    So, what did Bernie do wrong with African Americans? What did he miss doing?
    Appealing to them and convincing them to support his positions. Specifically the older African-Americans.

  2. #2002

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Biden has a significant advantage in swing states too. Biden puts states in play that were barely contests in 2016, like Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio.

    I voted for Bernie but honestly Biden has the easier path to the presidency and if he wins the nom I'm all in on him.
    I recall more people showing up to support unopposed Trump in Colorado, then they did to support all other Dem candidates put together. Its a blue state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Don't give a s hit who wins the nomination. All I care about is getting the orange clown out of the White House.
    And that's why you are going to have 4 more years of BAD ORANGE MAN.
    Perhaps having 2 front-runners as geriatric marxist and senile neoliberal with diametrically opposing views wasn't a good idea.

  3. #2003
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I know this is a hard question for you. But who did they actually vote for?
    A rhetorical question...Biden is a clear favorite to win.
    Sanders asks "Joe, what are you gonna do? Are you really going to veto a Medicare for All bill if it is passed in Congress?" Now, this is a hard question,these are the things that really matter.Politics, not the politicians.

    Coronavirus Poses Dilemma for Workers Who Risk Losing Pay
    The 33.6 million U.S. workers with no access to sick leave would face a dilemma should they get sick during the coronavirus epidemic: stay at home and see paychecks shrink, or go to work and create health risks.
    Unlike many industrialized countries, U.S. workers aren’t guaranteed pay when they take off from work due to an illness. Economists and labor experts say that poses challenges for workers and employers in situations where sick pay isn’t offered, or when workers are penalized for extended work absences.
    To improve the US coronavirus response, Donald Trump should resign

    Also in his speech yesterday, Trump told the nation that all insurers “have agreed to waive all copayments for coronavirus treatments.” This is also, apparently, not true. “For testing. Not for treatment,” a spokesperson for the insurers’ lobby, America’s Health Insurance Plans, told Sarah Owermohle, a reporter for Politico. During no part of the speech were ventilators, hospital beds, or other preparedness measures discussed.

    Nor were people who didn’t have insurance discussed, a significant hazard. People who are likely to get stuck with bills from coronavirus testing or treatment may be less likely to seek care. This is to say nothing of workers who cannot afford to stay home because they do not have sick leave. Lots of Americans are frightened and want to know that our government will care for them and their loved ones. Does the president know or care about this? It doesn’t seem like it.

    The American Hospital Association, a national organization that represents hospitals, told its members to expect 96 million cases of COVID-19 in the US within two months, resulting in 480,000 deaths.

    If Donald Trump won’t resign, he should just shut up and let an adult do the talking. We don’t need someone “presidential” anymore. We need a real president.

    Here's how the US health care system makes it harder to stop ...
    The US is the only developed nation without universal health care.

    Nearly 28 million non-elderly Americans, or 10.4%, were uninsured in 2018, according to the most recent Census Bureau data available.

    But even those who have insurance may not seek care that quickly, largely because they face hefty deductibles and out-of-pocket costs for doctor's visits, emergency room trips and treatment.

    The roughly 153 million Americans who have insurance through their jobs have seen their deductibles double over the past decade, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's 2019 Employer Health Benefits Survey. A worker now has to shell out about $1,655 a year, on average, before coverage kicks in.
    Plus, more than a quarter of covered workers -- including 45% of those at smaller firms -- have an average deductible of at least $2,000 a year.
    "Addressing coronavirus with tens of millions of people without health insurance or with inadequate insurance will be a uniquely American challenge among developed countries,"
    Another weak point in the nation's fight against the coronavirus' spread is the lack of national standards on paid sick leave, a rarity among industrialized nations.

    Nearly a quarter of workers don't have paid sick leave, according to federal data. And among those in the leisure and hospitality industries, who often deal with the public at places like restaurants and hotels, fewer than half can take a paid sick day.
    Among the lowest-paid employees, only half have access to sick leave.
    And many gig economy workers, such as those who drive for Uber and Lyft and who deliver food, are considered independent contractors and don't receive benefits such as sick days.
    Of course, another effect of the lack of paid sick leave is that many people will go to work sick, causing the virus to spread more widely,"
    Good luck, America.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  4. #2004

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Good luck, America.
    Don't worry we got this.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  5. #2005
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    With the way the economy is going Trump just might lose now.

  6. #2006
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Without any preventive healthcare measures and only show measures like closing borders and relying on walls Trump will just get this...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Proud Non-Citizen and Goth

    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. (Morticia Addams)


  7. #2007

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    With the way the economy is going Trump just might lose now.
    This is why the partisan MSM is pushing the panic in large part I think but I don't think its going to be the case. Who would people trust to fix the economy as its going to be rather hard to blame it on Trump though they will try their best. Most people are stupid but only the pants on head stupid will blame Trump for a virus and the disruption. Most people who blame him weren't voting for him anyways.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  8. #2008
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    This is why the partisan MSM is pushing the panic in large part I think but I don't think its going to be the case. Who would people trust to fix the economy as its going to be rather hard to blame it on Trump though they will try their best. Most people are stupid but only the pants on head stupid will blame Trump for a virus and the disruption. Most people who blame him weren't voting for him anyways.
    Trump hasn't been doing a good job of damage control or calming the markets. Dems could use that against him later on if this panic continues and the US slips into recession. If it stops soon enough Trump won't be in a bad position come election time.

  9. #2009
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Trump for all his effrontery can't beat a market crash. Its unfair because as much as he's a blatherskiting time waster the blame for this one is shared with all the presidents since Carter dismantling controls. Even Obama failed to make real changes.
    Well, it's unfair for him to be elected while unpopular just because the economy is doing well too. He removed the breaks so that economy could speed up ahead in the "Good times" but without the breaks, now that there's a problem and the economy turns down... there are no breaks to decrease the acceleration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I think the real question is who gets to be the candidate when Biden has to step down for health reasons?

    What makes you think Biden has health problems - aside of age? He's about the same age as Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    They still wouldn't want Sanders as they know thats a dead end and they wouldn't want him being the direction of the DNC, that would destroy them for a decade at least, but Biden is a safe candidate who if he says something really stupid people will put it on his age and mental state not the party.
    It's not just a dead end; even for Democrats it is better to have Trump than Sanders on the wheel. That's why the establishment balks at Sanders. The middle-class urban fellow that votes for democrats without having sold his soul to the party, won't vote for a communist.
    Biden can beat Trump. Especially with the economy taking a nosedive. Sanders? Nope. Trump has to do something gigantic to lose to Sanders. The polls may say what they say, but once Sanders' radical views are brought to light and attacked by the Republicans, he would be done for.
    The Republicans don't do that so that Sanders' numbers would remain reasonable so that he could stay in the race and give them ammo to go for a red scare.

    I mean, if Sanders is the nominee, his interviews where he said to an American Political Prisoner of Cuba that Cuba is fine and he doesn't see anything wrong with it, would come out full-force. Same for the insane parts of his agenda and the costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Look at the numbers and look at the context. He’s running a four year old campaign and losing voters. The only group seemingly going to him are voters under 45(and their numbers are scarily low) and Latinx. And he doesn’t adapt his campaign. He just pushes the same message as if the next state it will change.
    Sanders is pushing the same message for the past 40 years. He is consistent, I give him that. He believes what he says. He pushes it, tries to sell it, but it's the same message. If the voters don't want it, he accepts he will lose, he won't mellow his stance. As such, since the voters DON'T want it, he will lose.

    And we will feed in the sweet, sweet tears of the leftwings as they realize that no, reasonable people don't want their poop. No, American voters don't want to lose their companies to workers, giving them 2% per year. No, American voters don't hate successful people. No, American people don't think everything was fine in Castro's Cuba in the 80s.
    Their cries will be a sweet music for my ears.

    And in the general election? Either Trump would lose to Biden and I lean back and enjoy the angry screams of the Trumpeteers and far-rights... or Trump would win I will lean back and enjoy the screams of horror of the SJWs and the progressives.
    Whomever wins, a good part of people I really, really dislike would be screaming.

    What a joyful time to be alive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    This is why the partisan MSM is pushing the panic in large part I think but I don't think its going to be the case. Who would people trust to fix the economy as its going to be rather hard to blame it on Trump though they will try their best. Most people are stupid but only the pants on head stupid will blame Trump for a virus and the disruption. Most people who blame him weren't voting for him anyways.
    Trump did a horrible job with Coronavirus, just denying the reality for a delusion that suit him better. It didn't work.
    Also, Trump removing the safety nets, regulations and government oversight from companies was responsible for the meteoric raise of the stock market... and now they are responsible for the rapid fall. You NEED those breaks and safety nets when the economy starts falling to slow the fall.

    So yes, it is his fault in a large degree.
    But... for those things to "bite" you need 6-12 months. By the time of the elections it would be a bit too early. Some of the pain would have start to kick. He will feel the problems. Whether it would be enough to topple him remains to be seen.
    Why?
    You say (and you're right) that most people who blame him wouldn't be voting for him anyways. Sure.
    But some of them wouldn't bother to vote for Biden. Now, angry at the detoriating situation they would get out of their house and vote. The Democrats would perhaps make Trump's failure another banner to gather opposition and get people out to vote.

    We will see.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 12, 2020 at 04:42 PM.
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  10. #2010

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    What makes you think Biden has health problems - aside of age? He's about the same age as Trump.
    He's senile, or alternatively, very good at faking it. Why would you replace a barely sane president with an almost certainly insane one (unless you want to pull some shady move by getting Biden to choose your preferred candidate as running mate and then Biden has an "accident" or is officially revealed to be senile)? IMO the Dems are stuck with two bad options here. Bernie is too old as well, and his politics are divisive. The only interesting Democrat candidate left is Tulsi Gabbard and she has barely any votes and keeps getting ignored by the powers that be.

  11. #2011
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I wouldn't be surprised if Biden is replaced at the convention if his health continues to deteriorate. Anyone but Sanders is the DNC mantra. They aren't beholden to Biden, they were all on him just a month ago

  12. #2012
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Without any preventive healthcare measures and only show measures like closing borders and relying on walls Trump will just get this...
    Expect the worst. Hope for the best, but...
    I quote, again,
    The American Hospital Association, a national organization that represents hospitals, told its members to expect 96 million cases of COVID-19 in the US within two months, resulting in 480,000 deaths.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  13. #2013

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It's called having a vice president.

  14. #2014

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    With the way the economy is going Trump just might lose now.
    Economic downturn caused by external factors isn't something you can really blame Trump. I mean there is a partisan Democrat demographic that believes everything wrong in their life is because of Trump or Russians, but it isn't large enough to swing the elections.
    Not to mention that Trump did commit to adequate preventive measures, such as suspending the travel from affected countries. Of all the world leaders, Trump seemed to build up the best possible response.

  15. #2015
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by athanaric View Post
    Bernie .. politics are divisive.
    Bernie's policies are inclusive. Social inclusion by definition is about making all groups of people feel included and valued within their society or community.
    Any national health care system is inclusive.
    ----
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    American people don't think everything was fine in Castro's Cuba in the 80s.
    Who said it? no one said that everything was fine in Castro's Cuba. Obama never said that, alhoon. Remarks by President Obama to the People of Cuba ...
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 12, 2020 at 06:58 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  16. #2016
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    It's called having a vice president.
    can't wait for the unity of moderate and conservative wings of the democrat party

  17. #2017

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Bernie's policies are inclusive. Social inclusion by definition is about making all groups of people feel included and valued within their society or community.
    Any national health care system is inclusive.
    And then they vote for someone else.

    So inclusive they include the other candidate.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  18. #2018
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It's not just a dead end; even for Democrats it is better to have Trump than Sanders on the wheel. That's why the establishment balks at Sanders. The middle-class urban fellow that votes for democrats without having sold his soul to the party, won't vote for a communist.
    Biden can beat Trump. Especially with the economy taking a nosedive. Sanders? Nope. Trump has to do something gigantic to lose to Sanders. The polls may say what they say, but once Sanders' radical views are brought to light and attacked by the Republicans, he would be done for.
    The Republicans don't do that so that Sanders' numbers would remain reasonable so that he could stay in the race and give them ammo to go for a red scare.

    I mean, if Sanders is the nominee, his interviews where he said to an American Political Prisoner of Cuba that Cuba is fine and he doesn't see anything wrong with it, would come out full-force. Same for the insane parts of his agenda and the costs.
    Dude, you live in GREECE. Did you forget that? Bernie Sanders would be like a center left candidate there and in most of Europe, and his radical ideas include cancelling crippling student loan debt, making colleges tuition free like in Germany, and subsidizing clean energy over fossil fuels during an increasingly volatile global warming. Mind you, Greece doesn't have the best economy in the world, but YOUR country already has universal healthcare, with emergency care provided free of charge. Perhaps you don't really understand what we have here in the United States. Should I break it down for you? Quick summary, for you: we have 500k medical bankruptcies every year, because unlike every other 1st world country on Earth, the United States has an almost completely for-profit private healthcare system with Medicaid available only to the absolute poorest and Medicare available only to people aged 65 and older, and even then they have to pay 20% private insurance co-payments. Don't you DARE sit there and lecture anyone in the United States about communism when 28 million Americans are uninsured and haven't seen a doctor in years or decades, and 85 million are under-insured and afraid to see a doctor because it could bankrupt them.

    Also, the only people scared of hilariously outdated Cold War commie talk are Boomers, but unfortunately they still vote in much larger numbers than younger people, so perhaps you have a point...or at least you had a point that would make sense several days ago. We are now in the midst of a full blown financial meltdown. Suddenly "socialism" isn't going to sound so scary, especially when the Fed just pumped $1.5 trillion into the financial market.

  19. #2019
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    A universal healthcare insurance is so evil socialistic, that even our ultraconservative good old Bismarck had introduced it...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    And at this time it was GOLDMARK (twenty times more worth than today currency)

    You Muricans should start to not get triggered and frightened by buzzwords like "socialism".

    A "evil socialist" of 19th century with evil socialist ideas from my hometown...

    Perhaps a modell for your smaller farmers?

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  20. #2020
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Who said it? no one said that everything was fine in Castro's Cuba. Obama never said that, alhoon. Remarks by President Obama to the People of Cuba ...
    Obama was sane and awesome.
    Sanders the commie on the other hand, told an American citizen that was a political prisoner in Cuba that he doesn't see anything wrong with Cuba in his face when he was in Cuba to negotiate his release. He was also praising Castro's Cuba since the 80s.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Dude, you live in GREECE. Did you forget that? Bernie Sanders would be like a center left candidate there and in most of Europe,
    Nope, his stance is further left than the communist party of Greece.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Dude, you live in GREECE. Did you forget that? Bernie Sanders would be like a center left candidate there and in most of Europe, and his radical ideas include cancelling crippling student loan debt, making colleges tuition free like in Germany, and subsidizing clean energy over fossil fuels during an increasingly volatile global warming.
    Sure, those are the sane ones. Now, let's add to these the following:
    - Has been praising the Sandinistas in Nicaragua in the 80s.
    - Has been supporting Castro's Cuba since the 80s and he still does, telling a poor political prisoner that he doesn't see anything wrong with Cuba.
    - Supports a wealth tax of 1% per year for large fortunes that can go up to 8%
    - Supports the mandatory breaking up of big banks: "Too large to fail = too large to exist".
    - Supports unionization in all large-ish companies with union representatives having a seat on the board.
    - Supports companies that are over 100M in revenue to give 2% of their stock to workers per year till 51% on top of their salaries... but was willing to back down to 20%.
    - Supports a minimum wage that is making sense for NYC and LA but not for low income areas.

    Not even the Communist party of Greece goes as far as to demand companies to turn over their stock to employees.
    So... no. Sanders isn't just "medicare for all" and "forgive student debt". He's as far left as one can go. Nowhere in the western world I have seen as radical measures as he suggests. Even the "watered-down" versions of mandatory 2% per year to the employees, 2/9 members of the board being union members and the breaking up of banks are things no mainstream politician that I am aware of has suggested.
    DIE: Diversity, Inclusion, Equality (Pun on SJWs, I am not far-right)
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