View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    16 51.61%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 16.13%
  • Neither.

    10 32.26%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1661
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    What I will say is, due to libertarian/conservative sentiment among many Americans, for better or worse if a universal healthcare plan resulted in the waiting times I see in the UK, there would be desire among some to repeal it entirely. On the other hand, if it works out, there should be no problem. The UK NHS for example was a much better service when it began in the 50s. Nowadays for some treatments doctors will literally tell you they can’t treat you, go somewhere else.
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    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  2. #1662
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The UK NHS for example was a much better service when it began in the 50s.
    Indeed.Performance of UK National Health Service compared with - BMJ 2019.
    Read my previous post, PPPs are a cancer.The escalating costs of public-private partnerships in the UK
    I tip my hat to Sanders, he is not a fan of Public-Private partnerships. That said British people loves their universal health care. The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health
    UK 18, US 37.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    if nothing else, is that Sanders would not be friendly to Putin the way Trump is.
    Indeed.
    First- regarding the foreign policy,in my opinion, here's the real difference between Sanders and Trump: Trump trusts Putin more than his own country's intelligence. Sanders trusts the American intelligence and immediately reacts: "They're trying to cause chaos, they're trying to cause hatred in America. Unlike Donald Trump, I do not consider Vladimir Putin a good friend. He is an autocratic thug who is attempting to destroy democracy and crush dissent in Russia. I don't care, frankly, who Putin wants to be president. My message to Putin is clear: stay out of American elections, and as president I will make sure that you do"

    Second -another difference -Trump politicizes intelligence (for more details, use google to search-Shelby Pierson, Joseph Maguire, Richard Grenell, Doug Collins, and Kelly Loeffler)
    How Trump Hollowed Out US National Security | WIRED
    Trump’s surprise ouster of Maguire, who took over as acting director of national intelligence last summer, came apparently in a tantrum over a congressional briefing that outlined how Russia is already trying to interfere with the 2020 election and help reelect Trump.
    Maguire has now been replaced Grenell, by a political loyalist with scant knowledge of the intelligence world.
    By the end of the day, almost all of the roles created after 9/11 literally to prevent the next 9/11 will be either vacant or lack permanent appointees.
    Anyway, Sanders suggested the possibility of a political motive behind the timing of revelations reported by the Washington Post. "One day before the Nevada caucus, why do you think it came out?" he said.
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    The Sanders campaign openly floated the idea of closing US bases and withdrawing troops from Europe and Asia,
    I don't think so... what he said, recently,

    Sanders says he wouldn't pull troops from Iraq via tweet
    Sanders reiterated his longstanding opposition to U.S. military engagements in Iraq dating back to the first Gulf War, but he made clear that if elected president he would not be seeking a precipitous or unplanned withdrawal from the country.
    Bernie Sanders - Foreign Policy - The New York Times
    Q.Would you consider military force to pre-empt an Iranian or North Korean nuclear missile test?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Would you consider military force for an humanitarian intervention?
    A. Yes.
    Q. Apart from responding to an attack on the United States or treaty ally, what are the conditions under which you would consider the use of American military force?

    A. First priority is to protect the American people. MIlitary force is sometimes necessary,- but always- always- as the last resort. And blustery threats of force can often signal weakness as much as strength. diminishing US deterrence, credibility and security in the process.

    Two years ago, Read: Bernie Sanders's big foreign policy speech at Westminster College, where Winston Churchill in 1946 gave his famous "Iron Curtain" speech.

    Last edited by Ludicus; February 22, 2020 at 02:51 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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  3. #1663
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Bernie is probably the only candidate who makes Trump seem appealing by comparison, which is quite an accomplishment. Judging by his rise in the polls, I'm guessing the Dems want to lose.
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  4. #1664

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Sanders is the only Democrat candidate that could at least lose without a landslide.
    At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Democrats are doomed because their electorate is split in factions with diametrically opposed ideologies - oligarchic unionism and marxism.

  5. #1665
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Their landslide victory in 2018 (thanks to moderate candidates flipping red seats) shows otherwise. Trump understands that his only chance of reelection is if a far-left Democrat were the only alternative, which is why he's going out of his way to promote Sanders in the primary.
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  6. #1666
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    That said British people loves their universal health care.
    The reasoning behind this, the NHS is a..."religion"

    Trump on Twitter, Feb 5, 2018
    "The Democrats are pushing for Universal HealthCare while thousands of people are marching in the UK because their U system is going broke and not working. Dems want to greatly raise taxes for really bad and non-personal medical care. No thanks!"

    The British Love Their National Health Service

    That tweet offended many in Britain. It prompted Prime Minister Theresa May's office to issue a statement saying the U.K. premier is "proud" of her country's system

    . The U.K. health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, tweeted back at Trump, saying he may disagree with some of the claims of those attending "Save the NHS" marches, but that "not ONE of them wants to live in a system where 28m people have no cover" — a dig at the uninsured in America. Hunt wrote that he's proud that Britons "all get care no matter the size of their bank balance."

    The National Health Service spends less than half of what Americans spend per person on health care, and yet life expectancy is higher in Britain.
    Defense of the NHS runs straight across the British political spectrum.

    "You wouldn't find a single leading politician on either the left wing the Labour Party or the right wing in the Conservative Party that would talk about privatizing the NHS," Murray says. "That would be electoral poison."

    The NHS polls better than the queen. U.K. politician Nigel Lawson once said "the NHS is the closest thing the English people have to a religion."
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  7. #1667

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Their landslide victory in 2018 (thanks to moderate candidates flipping red seats) shows otherwise. Trump understands that his only chance of reelection is if a far-left Democrat were the only alternative, which is why he's going out of his way to promote Sanders in the primary.
    Careful. HH is right depending on the October surprise and the way it flows. Even though Clinton won the popular vote by something like 3 million votes Trump pretty much landslided her in the Electoral College with a difference of 100,000 key popular votes over three key states. What HH probably won't admit is that it doesn't really matter who the democratict candidate is, the same thing can happen to Trump. These days it's more about party than it is candidate.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  8. #1668
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Meanwhile... in the CNN the atmosphere is euphoric. One of CNN's best-known commentators said just now, "Biden is moving in the right direction!"
    Let's see. Until now, popular votes, Sanders 6048 ; Biden 2707.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #1669

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Meanwhile... in the CNN the atmosphere is euphoric. One of CNN's best-known commentators said just now, "Biden is moving in the right direction!"
    Let's see. Until now, popular votes, Sanders 6048 ; Biden 2707.
    I mean, he is. Compared to Iowa and NH. But Bernie's 45% to Biden's 20% is hardly the result of the kind of forward movement he needs. There's second place, there's Second Place, and there's the Silver God Damn Medal Buttigieg pulled in NH. Biden has second place. He better hope that as that 10% approaches 80% Vegas and Reno like him a lot more.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #1670

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Careful. HH is right depending on the October surprise and the way it flows. Even though Clinton won the popular vote by something like 3 million votes Trump pretty much landslided her in the Electoral College with a difference of 100,000 key popular votes over three key states. What HH probably won't admit is that it doesn't really matter who the democratict candidate is, the same thing can happen to Trump. These days it's more about party than it is candidate.
    The difference is that GOP's electorate isn't split up in two groups that oppose each other ideologically, while each of front-runners is disliked by a significant part of the electorate. If Biden or Bloomberg get the nomination, Bernie bros will either stay home out of spite or write in Bernie. Same happens with clintonite unionists, if Sanders actually gets the nomination. So no matter what, part of the fringe will not support the other fringe side, while moderates are scared away by by this and many other things and would either stay home or even vote red.

  11. #1671

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The difference is that GOP's electorate isn't split up in two groups that oppose each other ideologically, while each of front-runners is disliked by a significant part of the electorate. If Biden or Bloomberg get the nomination, Bernie bros will either stay home out of spite or write in Bernie. Same happens with clintonite unionists, if Sanders actually gets the nomination. So no matter what, part of the fringe will not support the other fringe side, while moderates are scared away by by this and many other things and would either stay home or even vote red.
    Because what? The Bernie Bros can't do delegate math and think Iowa primary with technical difficulties is as conspiracy laden as September 11th? They've demonstrated their maturity quite a few times this campaign, most lately in doxxing the personal phone number of an official in the culinary union for them to call and harrass and threaten her. You wonder why many couldn't give two about them?

    That is, unless you THINK they should've doxxed that personal phone number and harassment and threats are a good thing?

    If they can't think 12 inches in front of where they stand they can step off the cliff they can't see in front of them. That is well within their rights.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  12. #1672

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I now realize that Bernie Sanders is the best possible democratic candidate to fix whats wrong in American politics.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Because the Republicans will take the house, and maintain the rest. Ginsburg won't be able to hold on. The swamp can finish its draining, and a huge realignment will become cemented between blue collar Americans and the Republican party.


    There is no way the Democrats will let it happen.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  13. #1673
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    This primary feels fair like Trumps in 2016. A populist candidate with a bunch of moderates all squabbling amongst themselves while the populist candidate pulls away.

  14. #1674

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Because what? The Bernie Bros can't do delegate math and think Iowa primary with technical difficulties is as conspiracy laden as September 11th? They've demonstrated their maturity quite a few times this campaign, most lately in doxxing the personal phone number of an official in the culinary union for them to call and harrass and threaten her. You wonder why many couldn't give two about them?

    That is, unless you THINK they should've doxxed that personal phone number and harassment and threats are a good thing?

    If they can't think 12 inches in front of where they stand they can step off the cliff they can't see in front of them. That is well within their rights.
    I never said that I side with Sanders or his supporters,. But regardless of their quite abysmal behavior, not to mention fiscal illiteracy, they are a significant part of Democrat's electorate. If they disagree to vote for anyone other then Bernie, Dems will lose with a landslide. If Dems give Bernie the nomination, moderates and undecideds will flock to Trump, since at that point voting for Trump would be voting against major recession.

  15. #1675

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    This primary feels fair like Trumps in 2016. A populist candidate with a bunch of moderates all squabbling amongst themselves while the populist candidate pulls away.
    It took Trump at least until Super Tuesday to establish a lead on 2016 and many were staying in because a lead is not necessarily a win. Buttigieg, Warren, and Klobuchar are having a fair shake at running out of money already though they'll stay in until at least Super Tuesday and the last debate before South Carolina to make one last go riling up the donors. I hope Buttigieg makes Kobuchar cry again, personally. I have no idea where Biden stands financially. But at some point if they don't show movement, or enough movement, they'll run out of money and they'll drop out. About the only one that can break any rule he pleases as far as how a typical campaign goes is Bloomberg. Does that mean he'll have a shot at winning? Nah. But just because he's literally avoiding donors means he doesn't have to keep his coffers full. Hell, he doesn't even have to keep his polling numbers up. He's spending his own money, his campaign lasts as long as he wants to spend his own money. That's the difference between him and Trump '16 and Trump '20. For all Trump's speeches were and are...unique for what we were used to. He still ran a rather normal campaign for donors and PACs and polling. Bloomberg's just going in like a bull in a china shop and saying it's his money and screw all who say otherwise. It'll take the tv stations not wanting to make money off his commercials to stop him.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  16. #1676
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I now realize that Bernie Sanders is the best possible democratic candidate to fix whats wrong in American politics.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Because the Republicans will take the house, and maintain the rest. Ginsburg won't be able to hold on. The swamp can finish its draining, and a huge realignment will become cemented between blue collar Americans and the Republican party.


    There is no way the Democrats will let it happen.
    Again, I think it's worth highlighting that Sanders (if he makes it) will pose a significant threat to Trump in the general. Mainstream media has been lying (surprise, surprise) about his popularity and electability for years in an attempt to damage his appeal.

  17. #1677

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Again, I think it's worth highlighting that Sanders (if he makes it) will pose a significant threat to Trump in the general. Mainstream media has been lying (surprise, surprise) about his popularity and electability for years in an attempt to damage his appeal.
    I don't see it at all, any non-left-loony Democrat is going to be horrified once they actually DO get the truth on this guy. The mainstream has been if anything too soft on him because they don't want to anger the left too much.

    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  18. #1678
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I don't see it at all, any non-left-loony Democrat is going to be horrified once they actually DO get the truth on this guy. The mainstream has been if anything too soft on him because they don't want to anger the left too much.
    I don't disagree that Sanders could be dismantled by a person capable of articulating the pitfalls of hard left economics, but in a contest between two populist, polarising wild card candidates all bets are off.

  19. #1679

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I don't see it at all, any non-left-loony Democrat is going to be horrified once they actually DO get the truth on this guy. The mainstream has been if anything too soft on him because they don't want to anger the left too much.

    [YOUTUBE]K2d3DMC6qyg[YOUTUBE]
    Not really. You basically have a repeat of Trump '16 but for the Dems. The vast majority of the Democratic Party will still vote Bernie. The ones that don't will snarkily say they wrote their husband, wife, or local mayor in and the Never Bernie Chapters are born. I mean, Bernie has a history of being a non-Party Democrat as much as Trump didn't have a history of being a Republican and people that made a career of actually toeing the line in either party for reasons they supported the party may not have or will not appreciated. And yet again, others will dive in head first. Who the hell knows until people make their moves.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  20. #1680
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Honestly any dem candidate who wants to ban fracking should have a big malus applied to their poll numbers. It's not a hill they should die on but it's one they're opposed to on feels grounds,
    Last edited by Ferdiad; February 23, 2020 at 12:25 AM.

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