View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    16 51.61%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 16.13%
  • Neither.

    10 32.26%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1601
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Bloomberg was trashed really really hard.
    As I was telling to people that took Bloomberg's candidacy as a significant threat: He's practically a republican running with the Democrats. His money cannot buy the primaries because as many ads he can put up, the rank-and-file of the democrats won't vote him. He could paint every building in the USA in his face, and he would probably still lose the nomination.

    If he went for a 3rd party choice, he would sap some numbers from Trump, not the democrats and he would give the democrats a win. Now? In the democrat race? He's a stone pulling them down.
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  2. #1602

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    If he went for a 3rd party choice, he would sap some numbers from Trump, not the democrats and he would give the democrats a win. Now? In the democrat race? He's a stone pulling them down.
    That's not until the general election. Right now he's establishing himself more as a person that's going to air ads against Trump and the debates he's skipped can largely go to hell. Will he stand by his word as someone who will be his own superpac for the dems when he loses the primary? That remains to be seen. But one would be smart to know there's no real independent runner until the general election(see Maine Senate 2012 for reference).
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  3. #1603
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Bernie looking increasingly like the nominee
    Well, Americans are not stupid.I keep saying this, they never cease to amaze me.In fact, as Sanders put it, "young people are the most progressive generation in history".

    Back to the Future, part four. Year 2030, tribute to the American NHS,

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  4. #1604

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Well, Americans are not stupid.I keep saying this, they never cease to amaze me.In fact, as Sanders put it, "young people are the most progressive generation in history".
    Hum i think generation z is more conservative then people realize. While Millennial generation is indeed more progressive.

  5. #1605

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread



    Dear god that "debate" was awful. These are the best the left can come up with? Democrats need to retake their party from the radicals.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  6. #1606

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Hum i think generation z is more conservative then people realize. While Millennial generation is indeed more progressive.
    Depends more on where you live, ironically.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #1607
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Not know whether to laugh or cry, Europeans Appear Unimpressed With Our Beautiful American Health Care Choices
    I quote,

    This one killed me:
    While watching Chelsea vs Manchester United yesterday on NBCSN, during halftime there was a Good Rx commercial where the guy is asking a woman if she would like to fill her prescription, he pulled up the phone and showed her that the same pill can cost from $10 to $90 depending on the area. And that Good Rx can help her fill the prescription with the cheapest prices.

    Now someone please explain to me how in the ever loving is it possible for a drug to cost 10x more depending on your location !? Don't they have constant prices like in the rest of the civilized world !?

    Edit: the answers to my inquiry are even more ed up. What the America!? You're getting robbed in broad daylight.
    LOL of course not. That would be communism!
    --------
    So, the NYTimes Times is basically making Bernie's point for him. Who's Profiting From Your Outrageous Medical Bill - NYTimes
    Excerpts,
    "Every politician condemns the phenomenon of “surprise” medical bills.

    Patients, of course, hate surprise bills most of all. Here’s a typical scenario: A patient having a heart attack is taken by ambulance to the nearest hospital, and gets hit with a bill of over $100,000 because that hospital wasn’t in his insurance network. A patient selects an in-network provider for a minor procedure, like a colonoscopy, only to be billed thousands for the out-of-network anesthesiologist and pathologist who participated.
    And yet, no one with authority in Washington has done much of anything about it.

    Here’s why: Major sectors of the health industry have helped to invent this toxic phenomenon, and none of them want to solve it if means their particular income stream takes a hit. And they have allies in the capital.
    Surprise bills are just the latest weapons in a decades-long war between the players in the health care industry over who gets to keep the fortunes generated each year from patient illness — $3.6 trillion in 2018.
    So today your hospital and doctor and insurer — all claiming to coordinate care for your health — are often in a three-way competition for your money.
    As the battle for revenue has heated up, each side has added new weapons to capture more: Hospitals added facility fees and infusion charges. Insurers levied ever-rising copayments and deductibles. Most important they limited the networks of providers to those that would accept the rates they were willing to pay.

    Surprise bills are the latest tactic: When providers decided that an insurer’s contracted payment offerings were too meager, they stopped participating in the insurer’s network; either they walked away or the insurer left them out. In some cases, physicians decided not to participate in any networks at all. That way, they could charge whatever they wanted when they got involved in patient care and bill the patient directly. For their part, insurers didn’t really care if those practitioners demanding more money left.

    But as the scope and the scale of surprise bills has grown in the past five years, more people have experienced these costly, unpleasant surprises. With accumulating bad publicity, they have became impossible to ignore. It was hard to defend a patient stuck with over $500,000 in surprise bills for 14 weeks of dialysis. Or the $10,000 bill from the out-of-network pediatrician who tends to newborns in intensive care. How about the counties where no ambulance companies participated in insurance, so every ambulance ride costs hundreds, or even thousands of dollars?
    These practices are an obvious outrage.
    Now, members of Congress have yet another chance to tackle this obvious injustice. Will they listen to hospitals, doctors, insurers? Or, in this election year, will they finally heed their voter-patients?"

    Last edited by Ludicus; February 20, 2020 at 05:33 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  8. #1608

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It's one of those things that's only communism until it's passed and people see the benefits of it in action. For historical reference, see Social Security. Back in the 30's before it was passed Social Security communism incarnate. Well, more like socialism given the timeline. But don't you dare call it that now. Also, maybe Medicare.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #1609
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Absolutely.
    -----
    Kennedy... so many years ago,

    "...what they do in England is completely different.In Ingland the entire cost of medicine for people of all ages..all of it, doctors, the choice of doctors, hospitals from the time you are born to the time you die are included in a government program...we are behind every country pretty nearly in Europe in this matter od medical care for our citizens..."



    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Democrats need to retake their party from the radicals.
    Sladly, I have to say -there is no chance Sanders can win the nomination. Every Democratic candidate except Sanders indicates support for a contested/ undemocratic convention.

    Bernie Sanders and the Revenge of the Superdelegates ...
    Much in the same way that the Democratic Party and its leadership including Deborah Wasserman Schultz were stacked against Sanders in 2016, Tom Perez and much of the party leadership are opposed to him again.
    Bloomberg on Super Tuesday when 34% of the pledged delegates are in play, stands a great chance of winning enough to reduce the mathematical probability that any candidates can get to 1,991 by the first round. Should they happen, the superdelegates enter and that will no doubt cast the die against Sanders.
    Debate shows Bernie Sanders could win most votes but be... The Guardian

    It’s a prospect that would leave Sanders’ supporters irate – and even upset some non-supporters. Marianne Williamson, Sanders’ erstwhile rival for the nomination, was among those to criticize the process on Wednesday night.
    “The Democratic Party should be on notice: if you even think about using superdelegates to take the nomination from someone who has the plurality of delegates going into Milwaukee, we the people will not take it lying down,” Williamson wrote on Twitter.
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 20, 2020 at 06:38 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  10. #1610

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Thing most people forget often, and by often I mean every four years, is how bloody primaries are. Candidates even try to keep it nice for 6-12 months depending on how long before Iowa they start campaigning. But once they realize they have to bring out the political shivs to make other candidates bleed, out they come. That is, unless you consider Trump sticking Ted Cruz with a JFK family conspiracy good and wholesome primary stuff. And here, roundabout before Nevada, we have candidates realizing and planning for an outrageously long haul and starting to play hardball in the debates. Are they going for Bernie? Not really yet. They want a bigger share of what they see as their delegates. After Super Tuesday is when I see them going after Bernie.

    And as for "Every Democratic candidate except Sanders indicating support for contested/undemocratic convention" whatever 'undemocratic' means there. Bernie signed onto the rules when he joined. If he didn't like the rules, he shouldn't have joined. Hell, he even has the right to run third party and stick a wrench into the works. Without even running primary. We call that Independent Party. Guess what party he really is. Technically. They did all these rewrites for his old ass last year, he can deal.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  11. #1611

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Well the Chinese chill Bloomberg was ripped to shreds by warren, and it was glorious, and Bernie is blaming Russian infiltrators? whats with Democrats and this obsession with Russia? first Tulsi was named a Russian agent by Clinton ( lol hilarious), now there is people in the rank and file of Bernie sanders campaign? This scapegoat is getting very old. Also not a good move from Sanders, sadly.

    Sladly, I have to say -there is no chance Sanders can win the nomination.
    Well i thought he was doing good.

    Depends more on where you live, ironically.
    I would guess it depends on lots of things. Such is the nature of this things when we take a broader look.
    The general ray vision of generation z, is mostly progressive on social things, or Libertarian if you will, but with a conservative view in a personal spectrum also more liberal, economically. So yeah its a new brand altogether i suppose.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; February 21, 2020 at 04:55 AM.

  12. #1612
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    And as for "Every Democratic candidate except Sanders indicating support for contested/undemocratic convention" whatever 'undemocratic' means there. Bernie signed onto the rules when he joined.
    As Sanders put it, "Here’s a radical idea: The person with the most votes should be the Democratic nominee"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    If he didn't like the rules, he shouldn't have joined.
    Why not, the move to limit the influence of superdelegates was partially successful in 2018.Lets keep in mind that Superdelegates overwhelmingly sided with Hillary in 2016. Guess what's going on:DNC members discuss rules change to stop Sanders
    discussed the possibility of a policy reversal to ensure that so-called superdelegates can vote on the first ballot at the party’s national convention.
    Very democratic...
    Edit, The DNC suffers from a generalized anxiety disorder...
    The Memo: Chaos deepens among Democrats after ... - TheHill
    Among the anti-Sanders factions, there is widespread fear that the Vermont independent could soon jump out to an insurmountable delegate lead...Who can stop him?
    Bloomberg is badly wounded after his debate debacle.
    Biden is fading fast in polls, after very poor results in Iowa (4th place) and New Hampshire (5th place).
    Buttigieg has shown no real capacity to win significant non-white support, which is a glaring deficiency in a Democratic primary.
    And Klobuchar, who out-performed expectations to finish third in New Hampshire, languishes in fifth place in most national polls.
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 21, 2020 at 05:58 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  13. #1613
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    If Sanders gets a plurality of delegates but not a majority, and isn't appointed the nominee, it will destroy the democratic party for the next 4-8 years at least

  14. #1614
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    its gonna be pretty clear after super tuesday if most of the states go to either sanders or biden and the rest of the field are still in, that they are simply trying to stop sanders rather than win the nomination

  15. #1615
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  16. #1616
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Edit, The DNC suffers from a generalized anxiety disorder.
    Note the article starts by citing Carville. A man living in the same fantasy world as Biden slips into. What is the great 'centrist' hope going to deliver anyway? Did the republicans or did they not stop Obama's completely centrist nominee on a bogus basis that Mitch has already now said do not apply to Trump. Did they back Obama's perfectly white bread attempt to expand health care inside of a market system? Did Bill's centrism stop a massive investigation that ended up trapping him into lying about a blow job? The reality is from either the left or the right the US has too many structural faults. From the D side wining the presidency and only offering bands and fantasy bi partnership is simply not going to fix the issues that inspire people to vote democrat.

    @Phier - which radicals? You mean Bernie and Warren because of national health care guess they need to dig up Truman and expel him as well.
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    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #1617
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Go figure... Warren tweeted on February 8,
    "Everyone on this stage except Amy and me is a billionaire or receiving help from Super PACs"

    So, financial life changes principles.Never say never, Elisabeth.The proverb says, "Never say of this water I will never drink, of this bread I will not eat."
    ------
    Fact Check: Does Bernie Sanders Get Support From Big-Money Super PACs?
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  18. #1618
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Go figure... Warren tweeted on February 8,
    "Everyone on this stage except Amy and me is a billionaire or receiving help from Super PACs"

    So, financial life changes principles.Never say never, Elisabeth.The proverb says, "Never say of this water I will never drink, of this bread I will not eat."
    ------
    Fact Check: Does Bernie Sanders Get Support From Big-Money Super PACs?
    I like Warren, I really do (especially after she tore Bloomberg to shreds in that debate), but it's clear to me what her strategy is here. She wants to goad Bernie supporters into attacking her online for her dishonest little jabs at Bernie, who clearly does not take SuperPac money while she clearly does, and then she turn that around as "look at what the evil Bernie Bros are doing online? Have you no decency sir? Why won't you denounce all of them and their mothers?" It's also disingenuous because virtually every single campaign has online trolls or people being jerks on Twitter/Facebook/Reddit.

    Another thing that makes this entire argument ridiculous is the fact that the Democratic nominee will be faced with Trump in November, the #1 choice of 4CHAN and the greatest online troll of all time. Seriously, you think Bernie Bros are bad? Get a load of Trump supporters on Facebook and Youtube comments sections. No offense to Trump supporters here who are decent/civilized.

    This is no time to act like a snow flake, IMHO.

  19. #1619
    Cope's Avatar Have you no decency?
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Have you no decency sir?
    Another thing that makes this entire argument ridiculous is the fact that the Democratic nominee will be faced with Trump in November, the #1 choice of 4CHAN and the greatest online troll of all time. Seriously, you think Bernie Bros are bad? Get a load of Trump supporters on Facebook and Youtube comments sections. No offense to Trump supporters here who are decent/civilized.

    This is no time to act like a snow flake, IMHO.
    Trump is bad but so's the far left! Then they're the same! O H Y E E E E S S S S!
    Last edited by Cope; February 21, 2020 at 09:47 AM.

  20. #1620

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    I like Warren, I really do (especially after she tore Bloomberg to shreds in that debate), but it's clear to me what her strategy is here. She wants to goad Bernie supporters into attacking her online for her dishonest little jabs at Bernie, who clearly does not take SuperPac money while she clearly does, and then she turn that around as "look at what the evil Bernie Bros are doing online? Have you no decency sir? Why won't you denounce all of them and their mothers?" It's also disingenuous because virtually every single campaign has online trolls or people being jerks on Twitter/Facebook/Reddit.
    Not really. Because sure, every campaign has fans that troll, whether they have employees that troll is another question. Whether they have fans that will dox key information of union representatives for bernie bros to call and harass and threaten remains to be seen. Other campaigns would disavow such supporters. Bernie merely says such actions should not be taken.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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