View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    16 51.61%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 16.13%
  • Neither.

    10 32.26%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1441
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    What would be hilarious in a nihilistic sort of way is to see Sanders lose Trump. It’d be interesting to see the “Progressive” wing of the party try to blame the DNC for losing in 2016 because they didn’t nominate Bernie, and losing again in 2020, not because they did nominate Bernie, but because the DNC secretly wanted Trump to win the whole time (!!!).

  2. #1442

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    What would be hilarious in a nihilistic sort of way is to see Sanders lose Trump. It’d be interesting to see the “Progressive” wing of the party try to blame the DNC for losing in 2016 because they didn’t nominate Bernie, and losing again in 2020, not because they did nominate Bernie, but because the DNC secretly wanted Trump to win the whole time (!!!).
    Nah, they'd just blame Russia again, and probably blame the voter for being "too uneducated" to vote in a fiscally illiterate geriatric neo-marxist.

  3. #1443
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Nah, they'd just blame Russia again, and probably blame the voter for being "too uneducated" to vote in a fiscally illiterate geriatric neo-marxist.
    It's the status quo Dems. (Clinton, Schiff, Pelosi, Kerry etc.) and their friends in the press (CNN, MSNBC, WaPo) who blame everything on the Russians.

  4. #1444
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Nah, they'd just blame Russia again, and probably blame the voter for being "too uneducated" to vote in a fiscally illiterate geriatric neo-marxist.
    Not impossible methinks. Or the Democrats want exactly this, because they saw that the Republicans won with a fiscally illiterate geriatric the last time.

  5. #1445

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    It's the status quo Dems. (Clinton, Schiff, Pelosi, Kerry etc.) and their friends in the press (CNN, MSNBC, WaPo) who blame everything on the Russians.
    My bad, I guess they'll just blame the "alt-right" and 4chan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morifea View Post
    Not impossible methinks. Or the Democrats want exactly this, because they saw that the Republicans won with a fiscally illiterate geriatric the last time.
    Except that Trump was neither socialist nor was significantly older then his opponents. Didn't have a heart attack either.

  6. #1446
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I take my hat off to Deval Patrick,

    One candidate is calling the results into question because he apparently didn’t do well.
    Another is declaring victory without any votes being confirmed
    Biden and Buttigieg.
    So, let's wait for results-and avoid conspiracy theories.
    ----
    Sanders- a mature man- prudently said he has a good feeling. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    What would be hilarious in a nihilistic sort of way is to see Sanders lose Trump.
    Nobody knows, but Biden is Clinton's deja vu. Sanders is an honest and principled man.
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 04, 2020 at 09:51 AM.
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  7. #1447
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    From what I’ve seen, the Sanders wing has echoed GOP talking points on Russian election interference, albeit for different reasons, just like they parroted the MAGA crowd to hurt Biden throughout Trump’s Ukraine scandal. It’s not necessarily nefarious; national security doesn’t land high on the priority list in Progressive left politics, and any chance to hurt Democrats is fair game. I doubt they’d blame Russia this time any more than last time. Everything bad in the Progressive left YouTube-verse is a racist and/or “corporate Democrat” conspiracy.

  8. #1448
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Biden depicted Trump as a plutocrat, what about him? How Hunter Biden reaped millions from Ukraine is an unsolved mystery. Where is Poirot when you need him?
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Trump... Didn't have a heart attack
    I wish Trump a good health, he needs a strong heart.The agony of defeat can be painful.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  9. #1449
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    From what I’ve seen, the Sanders wing has echoed GOP talking points on Russian election interference, albeit for different reasons, just like they parroted the MAGA crowd to hurt Biden throughout Trump’s Ukraine scandal. It’s not necessarily nefarious; national security doesn’t land high on the priority list in Progressive left politics, and any chance to hurt Democrats is fair game. I doubt they’d blame Russia this time any more than last time. Everything bad in the Progressive left YouTube-verse is a racist and/or “corporate Democrat” conspiracy.
    > Dem. administration fails to protect campaign of Dem. Party's heir apparent.
    > Dem. establishment: "F*ing Bernie".


  10. #1450
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    national security doesn’t land high on the priority list in Progressive left politics.
    Not true, my friend, not true.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Look at my avatar (Aljubarrota).
    Mario Soares wrote,
    "Sou um homem de esquerda. Sou socialista. Mas, antes de ser socialista, sou democrata. E, antes ainda, sou português"
    "I am a man of the left. I am a socialist. But above all, I'm Portuguese and democrat".
    Read the article 9 of our highly democratic constitution,
    To guarantee national independence and create the political, economic, social and cultural conditionsthat promote it
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  11. #1451
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Bernie Sanders on Wednesday blamed Hillary Clinton for not doing more to stop the Russian attack on the last presidential election. Then his 2016 campaign manager, in an interview with POLITICO, said he’s seen no evidence to support special counsel Robert Mueller's assertion in an indictment last week that the Russian operation had backed Sanders' campaign.

    The remarks showed Sanders, running for a third term and currently considered a front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2020, deeply defensive in response to questions posed to him about what was laid out in the indictment. He attempted to thread a response that blasts Donald Trump for refusing to acknowledge that Russians helped his campaign — but then holds himself harmless for a nearly identical denial.

    In doing so, Sanders and his former campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, presented a series of self-serving statements that were not accurate, and that track with efforts by Trump and his supporters to undermine the credibility of the Mueller probe.

    “The real question to be asked is what was the Clinton campaign [doing about Russian interference]? They had more information about this than we did,” Sanders said in the interview with Vermont Public Radio.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ference-420528
    Like I said, the Sanders wing has echoed GOP talking points on Russian election interference, albeit for different reasons, just like they parroted the MAGA crowd to hurt Biden throughout Trump’s Ukraine scandal. From the indictment referenced in the interview:

    Defendant INTERNET RESEARCH AGENCY LLC (“ORGANIZATION”) is a Russian organization engaged in operations to interfere with elections and political processes. From in or around 2014 to the present, Defendants knowingly and intentionally conspired with each other (and with persons known and unknown to
    the Grand Jury) to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the government through fraud and deceit for the purpose of interfering with the U.S. political and electoral processes, including the presidential election of 2016.

    On or about February 10, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators internally circulated an outline of themes for future content to be posted to ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts. Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on “politics in the USA” and to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump—we support them).”

    https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

  12. #1452
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Four years on and you still haven't forgiven Sanders for refusing to torpedo his own campaign by owning the "Russian asset" label the Clintonite establishment tried to foist on him.

    If I were you I'd find the following more concerning: (1) the intel community's failure to notice and counteract the interference in time (which began as early as 2014); (2) the nature of the content which was hacked by the Russians; (3) St. Obama's dismissal of Romney's anxieties about Russian threat (God that interview has aged badly).

    If you must insist on dwelling on this for the rest of time, at least do us the courtesy of holding the right people accountable once in a while.

  13. #1453
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Latest Updates: Iowa Caucus - The New York Times


    ..plans to release the majority of the results by 4 p.m. today

    Final results?
    " soon as we can,” Price said. “Today, tomorrow, the next day, a week, a month? We're continuing to work through our process
    WHAT?
    --
    From the Guardian,

    So, Bernie Sanders’s 2020 campaign has released its own Iowa caucus results, which show the Vermont senator with “a comfortable lead” with 60% of the vote in.The campaign said their results reflect data sent to it by “precinct captains around the state.”
    The Sanders campaign results, which, again, they say reflect 60% of the votes, show:
    First round

    Sanders 29.08%
    Buttigieg 21.63%
    Warren 19.51%
    Klobuchar 12.27%
    Biden 12.04%
    After realignment

    Sanders 29.4%
    Buttigieg 24.87%
    Warren 20.65%
    Biden 12.92%
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  14. #1454
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I don't understand: why would Biden still be the running after the realignment if he failed to break the 15% threshold in the first round?

  15. #1455
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Four years on and you still haven't forgiven Sanders for refusing to torpedo his own campaign by owning the "Russian asset" label the Clintonite establishment tried to foist on him.

    If I were you I'd find the following more concerning: (1) the intel community's failure to notice and counteract the interference in time (which began as early as 2014); (2) the nature of the content which was hacked by the Russians; (3) St. Obama's dismissal of Romney's anxieties about Russian threat (God that interview has aged badly).

    If you must insist on dwelling on this for the rest of time, at least do us the courtesy of holding the right people accountable once in a while.
    I’m not sure where you’re going with the standard tu quoque aspersions. All I said was that the Sanders wing of the party probably won’t blame Russia if Sanders loses to Trump when they can just blame the DNC like they do for everything else. I don’t think Sanders’ campaign welcomed Russian support the way the Trump campaign did, and Sanders’ policy positions will impact my vote in the primary more than will his former utility to the Russians as a foil against Clinton.

  16. #1456
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    I’m not sure where you’re going with the standard tu quoque aspersions.
    Setting aside the standard fallacy fallacy, my point was rather candid:

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail
    If you must insist on dwelling on this [Russian interference] for the rest of time, at least do us the courtesy of holding the right people accountable once in a while.
    All I said was that the Sanders wing of the party probably won’t blame Russia if Sanders loses to Trump when they can just blame the DNC like they do for everything else.
    Sanders' voters won't blame Russia because the Russians aren't involved.

    I don’t think Sanders’ campaign welcomed Russian support the way the Trump campaign did, and Sanders’ policy positions will impact my vote in the primary more than will his former utility to the Russians as a foil against Clinton.
    In that case you should do yourself the courtesy of holding the right people accountable. Or, like almost everyone not named Hillary Rodham Clinton, simply let it go.

  17. #1457
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Warren on Iowa results: "I don't understand what that means to release half of the data".Nobody understands that. Meanwhile, race moves to NH, and Biden "feels good in New Hampshire".
    CNN feels happy:"Joe Biden:On to New Hampshire and beyond". I hear in my mind a Star Trek music playing in the background.

    Sanders,
    "There is no excuse for not having results last night, but that doesn’t mean to say the votes, that the totals that come in, will be inaccurate. I think that is an unfair thing to try to do"

    Sanders's adviser says what he thinks: "Some dems want to delay Iowa results"
    Last edited by Ludicus; February 04, 2020 at 02:41 PM.
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  18. #1458

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Well, Iowa was a show. They should’ve spent an election testing that system but doing normal callins for official recording. Looks like Iowa is at the little kids table of their own accord after both 2012 and 2020. Doesn’t matter whether they have the primary first or not. The first anyone will put stock in is New Hampshire.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  19. #1459
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    Setting aside the standard fallacy fallacy, my point was rather candid:
    I’m saying I have no idea where you’re going with the vague and thus far inaccurate accusations of hypocrisy in lieu of having a point.
    Sanders' voters won't blame Russia because the Russians aren't involved.
    Involved in what? The Kremlin interfered in the 2016 presidential election to help Trump against Hillary, and are continuing into the 2020 election as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    What would be hilarious in a nihilistic sort of way is to see Sanders lose Trump. It’d be interesting to see the “Progressive” wing of the party try to blame the DNC for losing in 2016 because they didn’t nominate Bernie, and losing again in 2020, not because they did nominate Bernie, but because the DNC secretly wanted Trump to win the whole time (!!!).
    Quote Originally Posted by HH
    Nah, they'd just blame Russia again, and probably blame the voter for being "too uneducated" to vote in a fiscally illiterate geriatric neo-marxist.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    From what I’ve seen, the Sanders wing has echoed GOP talking points on Russian election interference, albeit for different reasons, just like they parroted the MAGA crowd to hurt Biden throughout Trump’s Ukraine scandal. It’s not necessarily nefarious; national security doesn’t land high on the priority list in Progressive left politics, and any chance to hurt Democrats is fair game. I doubt they’d blame Russia this time any more than last time. Everything bad in the Progressive left YouTube-verse is a racist and/or “corporate Democrat” conspiracy.
    What part of that exchange prompted the “Stupid DNC/What about Obama?” tangent?
    In that case you should do yourself the courtesy of holding the right people accountable. Or, like almost everyone not named Hillary Rodham Clinton, simply let it go.
    What part of what I said are you disputing? The Kremlin is waging a global campaign of hybrid warfare against the US and our allies. I don’t know why I should “let it go.” Wouldn’t “letting it go” run counter to the accountability theme?

  20. #1460
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I hadn’t paid much attention to Buttigieg as he’s always polled at like max 5% if memory serves. Really came out of nowhere last night. If Biden and Warren continue sliding, he’s got a hell of a resume if I ever saw one, and the country could certainly do with younger leaders. Apart from his stance on the electoral college and TPP, I can’t say I 100% disagree with anything here:
    https://www.politico.com/2020-electi...ete-buttigieg/

    From Wiki:

    Buttigieg is a graduate of Harvard College and Oxford University, attending the latter on a Rhodes Scholarship. From 2007 to 2010, he worked as a consultant at management consulting firm McKinsey & Company. From 2009 to 2017, he served as a naval intelligence officer in the United States Navy Reserve, attaining the rank of lieutenant. In 2014, he was deployed to Afghanistan for seven months and was awarded the Joint Service Commendation Medal. Once elected mayor of South Bend, Indiana, he became the youngest mayor of a city with a population of over 100,000.

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