View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%
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  1. #1
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    The democrats are having a huge field of declared candidates at present that will compete between themselves in the primaries in order to win the nomination and then move on to face against Donald Trump in November 2020.
    With the USA elections about a year and a half away and the first primary elections less than a year away, I believe it is time start a discussion about the candidates, the primaries and the procedure.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_D...tial_primaries

    The list of candidates for the democrats is very large and diverse with moderates to more fringe politicians, people of all ages, newcomers and old faces, people of various ethnic and religious backgrounds and sexual orientations.
    Do you think this multi-voice (some would say cacophony) of potential candidates will end up harming the democrats (disunity over very different agendas) or help them (polyphony, draw in various groups that will in the end support the candidate whomever he or she is).
    Personally, I think the group is too diverse and the various shouting matches between the democrats turning on each other as candidates come and go will harm the party.

    There have been changes since the 2016, with the superdelegates having to sit at the bench and not vote before the first round is completed. Do you think such reforms help? Are they meaningful or just placating the angry Sanders fans of 2016?
    In the 2016 elections, I was saying again and again that 15% split between two candidates is nothing. Had one candidate got 65% and the other 35% a clear-cut popular will, the SDelegates couldn't do crap to change it, nor they would dare. In pesky 53%/47% cases, i.e. both candidates being about equal, yes, they would play a role which is IMO a good thing. If the Republicans had SDelegates then Donald Trump would have been making a much more tame and moderate game to earn their votes instead of just divisive populist rhetorics and he may not even have got the nomination if the people that know how government works, people with experience, had their thumb on the scale.
    HOWEVER that was then. In a field of 20 candidates, It would be insane if Superdelegates voted in the first round. An adjustment of 5%, is minor in a 53% / 47% split. It is however huge in a 9/9/8/8/7/7/7/6/6/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/3 split.


    There are a lot of women on the democratic field. I like that. I am not sure why I like that, because I am against Feminists, SJWs, PC and Multi-culti crap. But... there's something feeling right with many candidates being women. If anything, so many women there, treated as equals by most, allows us to point out to Feminazis bemoaning the evil patriarchy their foolishness.
    I would love for a moderate (not SJW, no leftwing) woman to win. Again, just the expression of some Trump supporters and politicians would be hilarious. Sorry if I act as this is a show for my entertainment, but it would be entertaining.


    Last but not least, the list of candidates includes some of the oldest candidates in history. Out of the 20 candidates so far, 7 are above 65. Biden and Sanders are old, very old. They would be well in their 80s by the time they finish their first term if they are elected. And then, there's an 88 years old fellow running. When there's well founded concern you may not make it to the election alive, you're too old to run.
    I can't understand why there are arbitrary term limits blocking a good politician from running whatever the voters think of him or her, but there are no limits on the upper age.

    So... what do you think?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  2. #2
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    THe field is moving to far to the left with many candidates promising free lunches for support. The gag prize probably goes to supporting Medicare for all, but free college tuition may be the biggest mistake these candidates are making. If they think going left to win the nomination and then swinging to the center in the general election is a winning strategy, just ask Hillary Clinton how well that worked out in the era of the internet. Your promises you make early will be remembered.

    It is probably to early to tell who the strong candidates are, but as Alhoon pointed out, there are a great many and I think more are likely to still announce. Partially this may be a year to have a collection of 'favorite son' candidates so that the political pros get to dive in at the convention after the first round. Even my state of Colorado ay have one or two 'favorite son' possibles that make it to the convention. Not too crazy about the ex governor, but the Senator Michael Bennet may be a dark horse worth watching. His 'experience' with Denver Public Schools as superintendent may dog him if ever he gets a nomination for the general election (VP if anything).

  3. #3

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Bernie Sanders saying that the Boston Marathon bomber should vote was pretty comical.

  4. #4

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    Bernie Sanders saying that the Boston Marathon bomber should vote was pretty comical.
    I'm serious this makes me want a gif party every party every Friday for what happened the previous week.

    Legit post don't delete. This could be fun. The fact that I have to say this line on this forum is sad.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    I'm serious this makes me want a gif party every party every Friday for what happened the previous week.

    Legit post don't delete. This could be fun. The fact that I have to say this line on this forum is sad.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. But what's your thoughts on tsarnaev voting?

    Andrew Yang is another interesting candidate, hope he gets some airtime on the debate stage.

  6. #6

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. But what's your thoughts on tsarnaev voting?
    I mean sometimes the facepalming is best conveyed via gif. And there are some good WTF gifs out there for when these candidates do something so desperately stupid to try to get votes ahead of 20 other candidates. Hence a gif party every friday.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  7. #7
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    This talk of going with a 'true progressive' or whatever sounds like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. America is so divided that any whiff of 'socialism' will just provide more ammunition for the already rabid right-wing media. This election needs someone to bridge the gap, someone like Biden, a moderate who has cross-party appeal and can match Trump's... presence.
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
    - John Adams, on the White House, in a letter to Abigail Adams (2 November 1800)

  8. #8
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    But what's your thoughts on tsarnaev voting?
    While the question wasn't directed to me, I will answer it: I consider long-sentence prisoners voting a very bad idea. I can understand people that will be out of prison in a year, having served a couple of years prior, having the right to vote. But someone that will spend loooong time in prison and has spent a good deal of time inside it already is both disconnected with what is happening in society and what will happen soon.
    Now, people like the Boston bomber... Certainly not. He is crazy, to put it bluntly. I don't think people with severe mental disorders should be having a say on who would govern the people outside.
    Simply put, the opinion of a citizen of Laos would be more relevant and the election results would potentially affect him more than people like the Boston Bomber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    This talk of going with a 'true progressive' or whatever sounds like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. America is so divided that any whiff of 'socialism' will just provide more ammunition for the already rabid right-wing media. This election needs someone to bridge the gap, someone like Biden, a moderate who has cross-party appeal and can match Trump's... presence.
    I agree, but I don't think 150-years-old Biden is the answer. Not to mention the feminists in the democrat camp and the conservatives in the republican camp will use his touchy-feely past as ammunition to lower the debate to their level and wrestle with Biden in the mud.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    This talk of going with a 'true progressive' or whatever sounds like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. America is so divided that any whiff of 'socialism' will just provide more ammunition for the already rabid right-wing media. This election needs someone to bridge the gap, someone like Biden, a moderate who has cross-party appeal and can match Trump's... presence.
    I tend to agree. There is a significant difference between the views and interests of the average Democrat voter and those propagated by Democratic activists online. At this stage, Biden looks like a reasonable choice to me.



  10. #10
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    I tend to agree. There is a significant difference between the views and interests of the average Democrat voter and those propagated by Democratic activists online. At this stage, Biden looks like a reasonable choice to me.
    Yeah, the NYT actually ran an article recently highlighting exactly that:

    Less engaged and less ideological voters tend to be cynical about politics. One might think cynicism would translate to support for outsider candidates, and it probably could against an establishment favorite with enough flaws. Instead, it has more often meant skepticism of ambitious, idealistic, pie-in-the-sky liberals and progressives who offer big promises with no record. It has meant an appreciation for well-known, battle-tested politicians who have been on their side or even delivered in the past. This election cycle, Mr. Biden might be the beneficiary of such sentiment.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...real-life.html
    "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."
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  11. #11

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Yeah, the NYT actually ran an article recently highlighting exactly that:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...real-life.html
    As you've mentioned one of Biden's strengths is that he doesn't inspire widespread revulsion; exhaustion with left-wing radicalism and Trumpism may very well work in his favour. Of the currently declared Democratic candidates I think he has the broadest appeal both within the party and nationally.



  12. #12
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Biden - a man devoid of charisma - is Hillary Clinton #2.
    --
    And Bernie is right. Here prisoners are allowed to vote in advance, and they are informed, Portal do Eleitor: Votar antecipadamente

    SE ESTÁ DETIDO num estabelecimento prisional e, por esse motivo, está impedido de se deslocar à assembleia de voto no dia da eleição, pode votar antecipadamente.
    ...according to the Prisoners' right to vote - European Court of Human Rights


    … Prisoners in general continue to enjoy all the fundamental rights and freedoms guaranteed under the Convention save for the right to liberty...… Any restrictions on these other rights must be justified …There is no question, therefore, that a prisoner forfeits his Convention rights merely because of his status as a person detained following conviction. Nor is there any place under the Convention system, where tolerance and broad mindedness are the acknowledged hallmarks of democratic society, for automatic disenfranchisement based purely on what might offend public opinion.

    This standard of tolerance does not prevent a democratic society from taking steps to protect itself against activities intended to destroy the rights or freedoms set forth in the Convention. Article 3 of Protocol No. 1, which enshrines the individual’s capacity to influence the composition of the law-making power, does not therefore exclude that restrictions on electoral rights could be imposed on an individual who has, for example, seriously abused a public position or whose conduct threatened to undermine the rule of law or democratic foundations … The severe measure of disenfranchisement must not, however, be resorted to lightly and the principle of proportionality requires a discernible and sufficient link between the sanction and the conduct and circumstances of the individual concerned. … As in other contexts, an independent court, applying an adversarial procedure, provides a strong safeguard against arbitrariness.”
    Read the pages 3,4,5. Cases concerning the United Kingdom,Austria, Italy, Turkey,Russia, and Bulgaria.

    --
    In fact, Biden is not Bernie Sanders,
    The folks at the top are not bad guys... wealthy Americans are just as patriotic.
    Sure, Biden.
    Last edited by Ludicus; May 03, 2019 at 05:44 PM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Biden - a man devoid of charisma - is Hillary Clinton #2.
    --
    And Bernie is right. Here prisoners are allowed to vote in advance, and they are informed, Portal do Eleitor: Votar antecipadamente


    ...according to the Prisoners' right to vote - European Court of Human Rights




    Read the pages 3,4,5. Cases concerning the United Kingdom,Austria, Italy, Turkey,Russia, and Bulgaria.

    --
    In fact, Biden is not Bernie Sanders,

    Sure, Biden.

    Biden is not Hillary either. Many people in the ue US hated Hillary, and while they did not like Trump at all, they hated Hillary even more. I don't think Biden is as loathed as Hillary was. While Hillary may have had her supporters in the Democratic party, I know many in the last election disliked both candidates, and some of my friends voted 3rd party, where if Biden had been running, they would have easily voted for him over Trump. If Sanderd had been running, I know that I would have voted for him in a heartbeat, but the only candidate I dsliked as much as Trump was Hillary. It was like the catch line to the Aliens vs Predator movie - "no.mstter who wins, you lose".

    Bernie would appeal to traditional Democratic voters but he wouldn't appeal at all to voters he typically voted Republican, but don't like Trump. In US politics you can't bbe percieved to be too far off.thr center, either liberal or conservative. Goldwater was too far to the right, and lost big, and McGovern was too far to the left, and also lost big. Reagan won by convincing people.he was just moderate enough to win, that he was not too far to the right. The perseption I have of Sanders is that he is a little too far to the left for many Americans. I think Biden would be a stronger candidate, he has a more moderate, mainsteam perception than Sanders.

    Plus, in the primaries, popularity among the rank and file party members counts, since voter turnout is usually very low in the primaries. I think Biden is more popular among the Democratic party.members than Sanders, who has a more Maverick reputation. About the only Democratic candidate who would have lost to Trump was Hillary, yet but he Democratic Party establishment did everything in its power to ensure Hillary would be the candidate. .I think the Democratic Party.estsblishment would prefer Biden over Sanders, and would work to make him the candidate over Sanders. In the election, I think Sanders would be be successfully protrayed as being g too far to the left, his popularity in the last election primary was that he was not Hillary, and refuse to knuckle under to the Hillary jugggernaut. Biden was vice president under Obama, who was popular with many Americans.
    I think the Democrats have a good shot at winning the next election, as long as they don't screw up and nominate someone prlercieved as too radical. Of course beating Trump might not be a walk in the park some think. Americans typically heavily favor the incumbent President if the economy is doing well. In the last 60 years, only 3 incumbents failed to get elected - Ford, who was never elected in the first place, and was never forgiven for his pardon of Nixon and a so-so economy, Carter for his 18% inflation and interest rates and his Iranian hostage crisis (rescue attempt was a fiasco), and Bush senior. Even Bush junior got re-elected. The economy is doing well, which is a big thing, and if all the negative press didn't prevent Tump.from being elected in the first place, I wonder how .uch difference it will make in the re-election.

  14. #14

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It seems that Democrats didn't learn from 2016 at all. One can already tell that Bernie and pretty much any grassroots candidate will be shoved aside to pave way to Biden who himself is a non-charismatic boomer, mostly known for being creepy around women. Like the couldn't really find a moderate candidate that doesn't have Internet full of pictures of himself groping women like he's some kind of geriatric Ted Bundy? Then again, even if Sanders did get the primaries, he'd be destroyed by Trump on economic questions.
    Yang is an interesting character indeed. He could have a shot if he ran for GOP ticket after Trump's second term.

  15. #15

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    When Clinton lost the elections she was nowhere to be found. Sanders continued the fight. Biden is not much of a different candidate compared to Clinton. It's time Democrats realize the value of Sanders. They need him to be the candidate.
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #16

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    When Clinton lost the elections she was nowhere to be found. Sanders continued the fight. Biden is not much of a different candidate compared to Clinton. It's time Democrats realize the value of Sanders. They need him to be the candidate.
    Current polling seems to indicate that Sanders and Biden are the only candidates with a realistic prospect of securing the nomination. Biden may not be much different from Clinton on policy, but that's not where Hillary lost the election.



  17. #17

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Edit: am I obliged to warn there’s a naughty word? In any case, it’s HBO. You’ve been warned.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Race and income inequality will inevitably dominate the primaries and possibly the general this cycle. The longer term domestic threat to the country isn’t leftwing SJW counterculture, socialism, or Islam (lol). It’s that Republicans successfully protected and normalized their pet tyrant from the checks, balances and consequences of our Constitutional system. This makes the inevitability of more Trumps on the left or right a permanent fixture of American politics for the foreseeable future. If one Trump has done this much damage, imagine what two or three more will do cumulatively.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 21, 2019 at 08:49 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  18. #18

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Edit: am I obliged to warn there’s a naughty word? In any case, it’s HBO. You’ve been warned.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Race and income inequality will inevitably dominate the primaries and possibly the general this cycle. The longer term domestic threat to the country isn’t leftwing SJW counterculture, socialism, or Islam (lol). It’s that Republicans successfully protected and normalized their pet tyrant from the checks, balances and consequences of our Constitutional system. This makes the inevitability of more Trumps on the left or right a permanent fixture of American politics for the foreseeable future. If one Trump has done this much damage, imagine what two or three more will do cumulatively.
    This level of cope almost makes me want him to win again.



  19. #19

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    This level of cope almost makes me want him to win again.
    “Owning the libs” at the expense of the Republic speaks far worse of the supposed victors than the vanquished. When Emperor Sanders III uses the same metrics to justify abolishing the bourgeoise Constitution, I hope you’re still laughing.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 21, 2019 at 09:19 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  20. #20

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Edit: am I obliged to warn there’s a naughty word? In any case, it’s HBO. You’ve been warned.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Race and income inequality will inevitably dominate the primaries and possibly the general this cycle. The longer term domestic threat to the country isn’t leftwing SJW counterculture, socialism, or Islam (lol). It’s that Republicans successfully protected and normalized their pet tyrant from the checks, balances and consequences of our Constitutional system. This makes the inevitability of more Trumps on the left or right a permanent fixture of American politics for the foreseeable future. If one Trump has done this much damage, imagine what two or three more will do cumulatively.
    Don't hate the player - hate the game. Bad faith politics became the norm long before Trump was even famous, let alone joined politics.There are fundamental problems in USA, that mainly stem from lack of transparency, globalism, decline of market in favor of oligopolies, central banking and federal reserve. The good thing about Trump is that he fundamentally shifted political discourse from "democrat vs. Republican" to "grassroots vs. establishment". This is very good (regardless of whether Trump even intended that), as it can and will undermine the current elites within the US.
    Also SJW is definitely not the counter-culture, as it is mainly pet of the political establishment.

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