USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

[PointOfViewGun]

Sanders/Klobuchar is growing on me.

[Akar]

What's the appeal of Klobuchar to you? She seems so.....boring.

[PointOfViewGun]

What's the appeal of Klobuchar to you? She seems so.....boring.

Perhaps, that's what makes her appealing. She's not Sanders-lite like Warren is. So, she would introduce a level of moderation to Sanders himself which would increase his electability chances. She certainly did more than expected so far. If they wanted a female VP then they should go for Klobuchar.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Maybe Biden can be VP again

[Gaius Baltar]

Moderation of last nights debate was terrible. A real disaster for CBS and for the democratic party. That wasn't a debate, it was a school yard tussel. No organization. Would have liked to have listened to some ideas about: (1) corona virus, (2) stock market, (3) climate.

Instead we have to listen to hours of preprogramed responses to positions we already know about, with the apparent focus on the creation of drama through conflict.

[Knight of Heaven]

Maybe stop voting them in then. Though I suppose people prefer austerity to the perceived "open-border" Left.

We did, there has been a Socialist government since 2016 (which i also voted for). Which pretty much continued austerity, while saying Austerity is over...lol.
Economy indeed has been growing since, due to a big touristic boom, so most jobs created are low paying jobs, and mostly in the sector, and the growth has been diminishing in recent quarterly years , it wont last forever. Also the no tax policy for foreign retirees during 10 years helped fuel this boom as well. A law that was contested by other EU countries, so it might change in the future.
But the cuts on Public expense never stopped for each yearly budget . And that shows, in the efficiency of healthcare, and other public services.

Not a chance. Progressives are winning here. The right is weak, demoralized, feeling helpless.
Tourism? Why Choose Portugal for medical tourism - Treatment Abroad
"Top standards of healthcare at low prices"

Tell that to those 2 people who died last week, waited for 4 and 6 hours to be seen by a doctor, in an Hospital ER, and never did, and ended up dying. Lack of Doctors and Health workers is a thing, and the reason is because they have been cutting expenses for a while now. The people who wait months or years for a doctor consultation, or even surgery and die before they even get them. There is tons of issues.

just imagine how great it would be if we just cut off the billion dollar subsidies to the oil industry for a single year. Imagine if for one year that money instead went to say, tax incentives to get an electric car, build electric infrastructure, etc, instead of going into the oil industry. I imagine it would also shock the industry enough that they began to diversify into other fuel sources.

but the ones whose minds Bernie would actually have to change would be the investors. In a way its already happening. Oil stocks are rich atm, but they are more and more becoming a toxic stock to have. Pressure should be put on both the investor and the industry to change its ways, something the green new deal addresses.

Really hoping is that simple. But i doubt it will be ever as smooth.

[Cope]

Moderation of last nights debate was terrible. A real disaster for CBS and for the democratic party. That wasn't a debate, it was a school yard tussel. No organization. Would have liked to have listened to some ideas about: (1) corona virus, (2) stock market, (3) climate.

Instead we have to listen to hours of preprogramed responses to positions we already know about, with the apparent focus on the creation of drama through conflict.

Welcome to politics.

[tgoodenow]

PPI (Progressive Policy Institute) concludes that even if Congress were to adopt every single revenue option Sanders has offered for consideration, it would fall almost $25 trillion short of his proposed spending increases over the next decade – leaving a gap nearly equal to the total value of all goods and services produced by the U.S. economy in one year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...lion-hole/amp/

I’m sure his top economist AOC will sort this out though right?

[Akar]

Not sure I understand the AOC comment, seems pretty baseless.

It's funny how we always have money for war but not for people.

[tgoodenow]

Except this takes all the money for war, and still adds 2.5 trillion per year.

[Cope]

Not sure I understand the AOC comment, seems pretty baseless.

AOC has the fiscal literacy of a liberal arts freshman.

It's funny how we always have money for war but not for people.

A fair point, but the cost of the US's wars is a drop in the ocean compared to what Sanders is proposing. Between '01 and '16, ~$4.5 tn. ($300 bn. per annum) was spent on interventions in the Middle East. Sanders' Green New Deal alone would cost $1.6 tn. per annum (>5x more) over a ten year period. And that's before we get into his plans to cancel student debt, fund free college and guarantee universal healthcare.

[PointOfViewGun]

Except this takes all the money for war, and still adds 2.5 trillion per year.

[tgoodenow]

Part of paying for Green New Deal includes a 1.25 trillion dollar defense spending cut. You gonna defend his 25 trillion dollar hole or post memes?

[PointOfViewGun]

Part of paying for Green New Deal includes a 1.25 trillion dollar defense spending cut. You gonna defend his 25 trillion dollar hole or post memes?

Can't post memes that point out how things don't work in the simplistic way you want them to be?

[Love Mountain]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...lion-hole/amp/

I’m sure his top economist AOC will sort this out though right?

It's better to link to the actual study. The article is okay, but one of the first passages,

"The first problem is that the list of Sanders’ proposed spending increases is incomplete. Sanders has proposed costly plans for K-12 education, expanding disability insurance, paid family leave, and more that were not accounted for in the new document. He also grossly understates the cost of his Medicare for All plan by citing a flawed analysis that neglected to incorporate the costs of specific benefits Sanders proposes, such as universal coverage for long-term services and supports, and failed to account for how offering universal health-care benefits more generous than those offered by any other country on earth would increase utilization of health services."

Which links to a Twitter post...

1) The study is bad - it doesn't count the cost of long-term care, assumes massive fraud reduction despite low admin spending, and thinks eliminating cost-sharing won't increase use.
2) You still need to say WHERE THE MONEY WILL COME FROM to finance health, if not from premiums.

Forbes opinion pages are not always bad, but they do require a bit more time to verify.

[Ludicus]

Tell that to those 2 people who died last week, waited for 4 and 6 hours to be seen by a doctor, in an Hospital ER, and never did, and ended up dying.

I have already answered that question. Number one: it rarely occurs.Number two: Manchester triage failed, that's what happened.Number three:use the App MySNS waiting times

the cuts never stopped for each yearly budget

Not exactly, sorry. The investment in the national health service grows 10% in 2020.We need a balanced approach. That said, I completely agree that we should spend more.
----
Back to the topic, democratic primaries thread. Bernie's proposal "Medicare for all".

In US, officials have warned healthcare providers that it’s time to prepare for a pandemic Covid-19 scenario.
So, I quote James Hodge, director at the Center for Public Health Law and Policy at Arizona State University,

If an insured patient shows up shows up at an American hospital they will be placed in an hospital isolation, where the American billing apparatus will be in full effect, and the expenses could rack up pretty quickly. For those unlucky enough to become mortally ill, if they are insured, the family will have to deal with additional care catastrophic expensive.
Lack of insurance will certainly result in a person delaying to see a doctor. That just fuels epidemic

Americans, check your insurance contracts. As we know, 500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills. So, a simple question occurs to me. Who is going to pay the daily charge for inpatient services, for a long period of time? Bloomberg?

-------
Edit,
In my opinion, the priority order is wrong.
Number one: decide once and for all the political implementation of an universal health care. ("Medicare for All")
Number two: develop a national health financing strategy. Sanders has already said that he is ready for a "vigours debate" (sic) including Republicans and Democrats. Interesting articles about Sander's pragmatism,

Negotiation Strategies: Bernie Sanders' Pragmatic Approach ...

"Negotiating with Bernie was not a usual experience,” Senator John McCain told Stein about their work on the VA reform bill, “because he is very passionate, and he and I are both very strong-willed people, and we spend a lot of time banging our fists on the table and having the occasional four-letter word. But at the end of the day, Bernie was result-oriented.”


How Bernie Sanders Fought for Our Veterans - POLITICO One of America’s biggest ideologues knows how to make a deal
Read the whole article. Excerpts,

"...In the end, the pair were pragmatic if occasionally hotheaded negotiators. McCain did not want to get rid of the VA and Sanders did not believe the VA was perfect. When they went to the floor to announce their deal, McCain joked about the behind-the-scenes drama. “I respect the fact that Bernie Sanders is known as a fighter, and it’s been a pleasure to do combat with him,” he said with a laugh. Sanders said that “reaching a compromise among people who look at the world very differently is not easy,” but that he and McCain had “tried our best ”. Five days later, the Senate passed the Sanders-McCain bill 93-3.

...Even within a wildly diverse Congress, the strangeness of the Miller-Sanders pairing was “not lost on anybody involved in this negotiation,” one Republican familiar with the discussions said wryly. The contrasts were cultural, temperamental and ideological.

....At a press conference announcing the deal, Sanders said getting to that point had been very difficult, due in part to “a lot of partisanship going on.” He said it would not have happened without Miller’s “determination and hard work.”
For his part, Miller called Sanders his good friend and said the volatility of the process had been exaggerated by the media.

Asked if conservatives would support a bill with such a hefty price tag, Miller replied, “Taking care of our veterans is not an inexpensive proposition and our members understand this.”

In the end both votes were close to unanimous—420-5 in the House, 91-3 in the Senate. Obama signed the VA bill Aug. 7 at Fort Belvoir. The new law, he said, “will help us ensure that veterans have access to the care that they’ve earned.”

AOC has the fiscal literacy of a liberal arts freshman

That's not what Pikkety thinks.
#1721 Wealth tax in America – Le blog de Thomas Piketty - Le Monde
"....What is certain is that the issue of fiscal justice will be central to the presidential campaign in 2020. The representative from New York, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has suggested a rate of 70% on the highest incomes, while Bernie Sanders defends a tax rate of 77% on the highest inherited estates. While the Warren proposal is the most innovative, the three approaches are complementary and should be mutually beneficial".

[Phier]

I now realize MaCarthy did nothing wrong.

Bernie stated his health plan is 31 trillion and they have no idea about the rest. He actually said they don't know.

Jesus.

[Cope]

That's not what Pikkety thinks.

#1721 Wealth tax in America – Le blog de Thomas Piketty - Le Monde
"....What is certain is that the issue of fiscal justice will be central to the presidential campaign in 2020. The representative from New York, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has suggested a rate of 70% on the highest incomes, while Bernie Sanders defends a tax rate of 77% on the highest inherited estates. While the Warren proposal is the most innovative, the three approaches are complementary and should be mutually beneficial".

No one cares that AOC can regurgitate leftist talking points about the marginal tax rate. Even a parrot could do that. What's more concerning are her false claims that unemployment rates are low because people are working multiple jobs, that a "vast majority" of Americans earn less than a living wage, that 200m Americans are earning under $20k annually and that if the US doesn't eradicate all petrol/diesel engine vehicles "the world is going to end in 12 years".

The more you listen to her - even as a layman - the more you realise that she has no idea what she's talking about. Putting her (or people like her) at the centre of sweeping fiscal and economic change in the US would be almost certainly end in disaster. And that's not necessarily because they're lefties either: its because they are, as I said, fiscally illiterate.

[RedGuard]

Part of paying for Green New Deal includes a 1.25 trillion dollar defense spending cut. You gonna defend his 25 trillion dollar hole or post memes?

I think taking the military back to pre-ww2 levels would just about do it. the rest will be made up for in taxes, and the absolute destruction of the health insurance and the bringing to heel of the pharma industry that pumps up costs by x200% sometimes.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I would argue that debt and spending constitutes the less important half of the picture. As Trump/Sanders will continue to withdraw the US from the world, that will also impact the perception of the US as a geopolitical constant, and economic safe haven for investors. As demand for USG bonds falls, the government’s ability to finance debt will become more difficult, interest rates will rise, harming the economy, and compounding the problem. Sure, the Fed could just keep monetizing even more debt to compensate, but eternal QE is obviously not sustainable and would worsen the issue even further.

We’ve already seen a preview of this as a result of Trump’s policies:

Not only is the trade deficit widening, Trump's tax cuts and spending plans will blow out the budget deficit too, requiring overseas investors to buy up larger amounts of the increased debt load Treasury will issue.
Foreigners' willingness to fund Uncle Sam's largesse has been a topic of hot debate for much of the last 20 years as the current account deficit, and to a lesser extent the budget deficit, have widened.

U.S. deficits may have played a diminished role for the dollar in the years following the crisis to around 2014 as these deficits shrank. The dollar rose 30 percent in the three years from 2014 to 2016, whittling away FX intervention-fueled demand for U.S. bonds from foreign central banks.

But the deficits are widening again and the Fed is reducing its bond portfolio, meaning the market may need to absorb Treasury bond issuance worth around 5 percent of GDP or higher.

The dollar is down 15 percent in barely a year, and President Trump's desire to impose tariffs on a range of U.S. imports has fueled talk of a global trade war. Will foreign investors, private and official sector, step up?

https://www.reuters.com/article/glob...-idUSL5N1QP5TX

A year later, the Fed is buying tens of billions of dollars’ worth of T bills non-stop to meet maturity obligations on existing securities. Russia and China have been coordinating together to deliberately exacerbate the issue, dumping US debt and working to wean their economic spheres off of USD.

My point is, if either political party wants to keep up this wild spending, the US will need to maintain and expand, not diminish, her traditional global role and responsibilities in order to have her cheap debt and financial safe haven status. If Sanders wants to launch 20-30 trillion dollar programs, his administration will depend more than ever on traditional US global primacy at the very time it is visibly declining. The US can be isolationist, or she can spend like a coke fiend, but she can’t do both for long.