View Poll Results: Which Democratic candidates do you prefer?

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Michael Bennet

    1 2.13%
  • Joe Biden

    6 12.77%
  • Cory Booker

    0 0%
  • Steve Bullock

    1 2.13%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    1 2.13%
  • Julian Castro

    0 0%
  • Bill de Blasio

    0 0%
  • John Delaney

    2 4.26%
  • Tulsi Gabbard

    12 25.53%
  • Kamala Harris

    0 0%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    2 4.26%
  • Wayne Messam

    0 0%
  • Robert Francis O'Rourke

    0 0%
  • Tim Ryan

    1 2.13%
  • Bernie Sanders

    17 36.17%
  • Joe Sestak

    0 0%
  • Tom Steyer

    0 0%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    13 27.66%
  • Marianne Williamson

    1 2.13%
  • Andrew Yang

    10 21.28%
  • Someone else

    4 8.51%
  • Don't care

    8 17.02%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1241

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I like how Warren promised to spend trillions on her healthcare program and then promised to reduce national debt in the same sentence.

    I'm willing to predict that Warren stroke a deal with Biden's camp to go after Sanders in exchange for VP position with Senile Joe.

  2. #1242

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It should not come as a surprise, but I disagree with you @PoViewGun. For starters, I don't try to save face. Second, what Sanders said was downright shameful for a person that is one of the leaders of the opposition and I explained why in two posts. Last but not least, that you consider my point of view intellectually corrupt and a threat is ... not of great concern to me. I can't say I value your opinion in this matter a lot.
    Sanders didn't promote interests of a foreign state. Sanders didn't put Iran above USA. Sanders didn't sabotage USA. Sanders didn't pander to the enemy. These are not opinions. These are facts. Why did you make them up?
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  3. #1243

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Rolling Stones

    "“CNN reported yesterday — and Senator Sanders, Senator Warren confirmed in a statement — that, in 2018, you told her you did not believe that a woman could win the election. Why did you say that?”

    Not “did you say that,” but “why did you say that?”

    Sanders denied it, then listed the many reasons the story makes no sense: He urged Warren herself to run in 2016, campaigned for a female candidate who won the popular vote by 3 million votes, and has been saying the opposite in public for decades. “There’s a video of me 30 years ago talking about how a woman could become president of the United States,” he said.

    Phillip asked him to clarify: He never said it? “That is correct,” Sanders said. Phillip turned to Warren and deadpanned: “Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders told you a woman could not win the election?”"
    Hmm, so Bernie is a misogynist. #BelieveAllWomen
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  4. #1244
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    What happened to Sanders? You don't mean the tiny Warren-Sanders semi-falling out? I have worse disagreements with my friends over cups of coffee, twice per week.
    Indeed. alhoon, my friend, have a good laugh- laughter is the best medicine isn't it? a delicious analogy, audio released of testy Warren-Sanders exchange - The Guardian ...

    Following the debate, progressive activists worried that escalating tension between Warren and Sanders could divide liberals. One activist and writer used a Lord of the Rings analogy. “Frodo and Samwise are approaching Mt Doom, and instead of finishing the darn mission they’re fighting each other when at the end of the day we need to defeat Sauron


    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    #BelieveAllWomen
    #ITrustBernie.Warren is slippings in the polls.Sadly, it seems that she waited 18 months for the perfect time to smear Sanders Elizabeth Warren Made A Fatal Error Attacking Bernie
    ----
    Sanders,
    I don't want to waste a whole lot of time on this, because this is what Donald Trump and maybe some of the media want.
    Right...
    There's a video of Sanders 30 years ago talking about how a woman could become president of the United States. Check, https://twitter.com/i/status/1216864788627607553
    Tuesday Sanders raised $1.7 million from more than 100,000 small-dollar donors, his biggest debate-day haul of the 2020 campaign. Amazing.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 16, 2020 at 11:08 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  5. #1245

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Warren, who I openly stated to be rooting for by the way, has been slipping in the polls since November/December. She decided to shoot herself in the foot further by attempting to target Bernie. Idiotic. This will kill a lot of appeal she had as a second-choice candidate, and will make it more difficult for her to be a running mate for Sanders' campaign.

    Admittedly, Biden/Warren ticket is much more attractive to me than Sanders/Warren, but this will all depend on the dynamics of any particular cabinets. Sometimes vice presidents have a lot of influence, other times they have zero. I'm also suspecting that Russians or Republicans are attempting to sabotage the primaries by sowing division among Democrats (very easy to do), but that's a bit of a conspiracy theory, admittedly. At this point I will vote for Sanders as I believe he is the only one who can unite the Democratic party. Besides, I'd rather see progressive leadership than another centrist. I'm tired of weak pandering towards the middle where the GOP just drags Democrats into the mud.

  6. #1246

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Attacking Sanders, out of all issues, given Sanders' record on advocating electing a female president, on a remark he supposedly made against electing a female president made me question Warren's integrity. If she really heard him saying that she should have asked for clarification or assume she heard him incorrectly instead of using it as a attack point years later.
    The Armenian Issue
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  7. #1247

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Sanders/Warren drama should have Democrats worried. Sanders Reddit top thread of the day (32k up votes) is that CNN articles are banned for the foreseeable future.

    CNN has spent the previous four days using all of its media power to try to prevent Senator Sanders from becoming President. All of their top-line stories have been unsubstantiated “hit job” style articles against the senator. This situation came to head last night when CNN hosted a Democratic primary debate. CNN’s debate has been criticized across the entire ideological spectrum of media today because their moderators spent the entire debate asking slanted questions obviously designed to weaken Americans’ confidence in Senator Sanders, the current frontrunner in the first three primary states.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForP...g_all_content/

    Sanders supporters already building the narrative that the "corporate media" is stepping in to prevent Bernie from winning will eventually lead to a fissure in the party. When/If Bernie wins Iowa, it's only going to get worse.

  8. #1248
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    made me question Warren's integrity.
    Sad, really.You are not alone, Jessa Crispin is a writer.Feminist. She was the editor-in-chief of Bookslut between 2002 and 2016. Jessa is the host of the Public Intellectual podcast


    Believe women - The Guardian Jessa Crispin ,Key points


    But now “Believe Women” is getting thrown around by political strategists and official opinion-havers to support the Elizabeth Warren’s claim that Bernie Sanders told her, in a private meeting with no witnesses and no evidentiary support, that a woman could not win the presidency in 2020. This is not only a grotesque distortion of what “believe women” is supposed to mean, it undermines the good work the phrase’s use was doing.

    in the last couple days after Warren’s campaign first made the accusation and then double-downed at Tuesday’s debate (with an unfair and obviously biased assist from debate moderator Abby Johnson), many are using it to try to shut down any debate, investigation, or dissent.

    When Sander’s campaign denied the accusation and supporters showed interviews going back decades of Sanders saying a woman could be president, plus evidence of Sanders’s wide support of women candidates in various campaigns, commentators remained unmoved. “Believe women.”

    The goal is to put the offense on a higher level than one of just lying. That way, if the Sanders campaign decides to point to all of the lies Warren has told throughout her career – that her father was a janitor, that she is Native American – her lies won’t matter as much because she’s just electioneering while his lies are rooted in misogyny.

    It’s a trick that still works for Hillary Clinton, who has repeatedly complained about the lack of support Sanders gave to her campaign, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. (Clinton, after losing the primary to Obama in 2008, appeared at two rallies with Obama and did ten solo campaign appearances to help him get elected. Sanders, after losing the primary to Clinton in 2016, did three events with Clinton and 37 solo events.)

    Many of her supporters still claim this supposed lack of support is proof of Sanders’s “problem with women.”

    While this is effective dirty politics, the real losers here are the women for whom “believe women” still means something. To turn it from a campaign for empathy to a cheap slogan to siphon off primary voters hurts the credibility of activists who have been trying to use it for good.
    Ouch!


    Tucker: DNC worried about Sanders becoming nominee [Video] CNN sides with Elizabeth Warren against Bernie Sanders.

    Tucker: DNC worried about Sanders becoming nominee
    Why am I not surprised?

    Edit. In fact,Sanders is leading the pack in Iowa – and that's good news for Democrats The Guardian.
    Bhaskar Sunkara is the founding editor of Jacobin magazine and a Guardian US columnist.

    Surprise has turned into panic. With Bernie Sanders leading in early battleground states and competitive with former vice-president Joe Biden nationally, the Democratic establishment is sounding the alarm.
    “Should Sanders actually pull off the feat of capturing the nomination, Donald Trump would have been given a gift that almost assures his re-election,” says the Daily Beast. Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign manager, Jim Messina, has a similar message: “If I were a campaign manager for Donald Trump and I look at the field, I would very much want to run against Bernie Sanders.”
    Obama himself has promised to intervene, if necessary, to stop Sanders.

    If you’re a part of the Democratic party’s power structures, the same structures that failed to thwart Republican takeover of local and state governments and Trump’s election, then perhaps you have reason for concern.
    But if you’re an ordinary Democratic voter, or just someone worried about the possibility of a second Trump term, there’s no need for panic.

    What Sanders’s detractors don’t understand is that even though it’s to the left of contemporary liberalism, his redistributive politics has more appeal with self-described moderate voters than typical Democrat ones.
    These potential voters, like most of the country as a whole, support demands such as Medicare for All, federal job programs, trade unions, free higher education and student debt cancellation. Bridging the gap between the one in four Americans who identify as “liberal” and the two-thirds of Americans who support tax hikes on the rich is crucial to building a majoritarian leftwing politics.

    Sanders’s strength lies in his popularity, both among and outside the Democratic base, and his ability to tie together progressive economic and social demands into a narrative that valorizes working people, vilifies a political and corporate elite, and sidesteps partisan “culture war” in favor of populist class war.

    He’s an outsider, but one who picks his battles wisely and knows how to frame a debate. Take, for instance, his stance on gun control. Sanders has a “D” rating from the National Rifle Association, and he’s worn that as a badge of honor, railing against the organization and its role in national politics. He’s done this despite representing a state with high rates of gun ownership.
    Sanders needs the votes of Vermont hunters. But luckily, they see him as a foe of lobbyists and a friend of theirs, and not an anti-second amendment zealot. They keep electing him, despite his support for gun control.

    The strongest case against Sanders has nothing to do with his electability or his democratic socialist identification, but rather with the disconnect between his political demands and a gridlocked political environment.

    Sanders is an anti-establishment figure, and one with a decades-long history on the left, but his policy commitments are not outside the new American mainstream. If he can galvanize the same “moderate” irregular voters who have been drawn to him in the past, he won’t just beat Trump, he’ll set the stage for a long-term political realignment – the political revolution he calls for.
    Sanders is a rebel, but he’s one who people know and trust. In other words, he’s the perfect candidate for 2020.
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 17, 2020 at 10:38 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  9. #1249
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    So it would be a very old moderate (Biden) vs a very old commie (Sanders) in the primaries and then a very old guy (winner) against another very old guy (Trump).

    The next PotUS would be nearly 80 years old by the time of the next election.
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  10. #1250

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    So it would be a very old moderate (Biden) vs a very old commie (Sanders) in the primaries and then a very old guy (winner) against another very old guy (Trump).

    The next PotUS would be nearly 80 years old by the time of the next election.
    Why are you slandering Sanders?
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  11. #1251
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread




    Moore makes a wise point...but it's not going to happen. Michael Moore calls for Warren and Sanders to ... - Fox News

    You know what I think they should do? I think they should they should go back into a room and talk again, because they are friends, and they should agree whoever wins the most delegates, by the end of the primaries, is going to be the candidate. And the other one gives their delegates to that person and then one is the presidential candidate who has the most delegates and the other is the vice presidential candidate and they go to the convention like that.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #1252

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Looks like Democratic party is actively trying to shoot itself in the foot. Now if Bernie loses primaries, it's going to look like the Democrat leadership rigged it, and most likely will cost them a load of essential votes. And if he wins, I suspect there'll be a significant amount of people leaning toward Democrats who won't vote for him because he's a member of that crooked, incompetent gang, which is the image that Democratic party seems to be actively building for itself for the past four years.

  13. #1253

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Looks like Democratic party is actively trying to shoot itself in the foot. Now if Bernie loses primaries, it's going to look like the Democrat leadership rigged it, and most likely will cost them a load of essential votes. And if he wins, I suspect there'll be a significant amount of people leaning toward Democrats who won't vote for him because he's a member of that crooked, incompetent gang, which is the image that Democratic party seems to be actively building for itself for the past four years.
    Nobody thinks that.

  14. #1254
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    CNN is under fire,

    CNN draws fire for debate question that ignores denial - ABC ...
    The Poynter Institute, a journalism think tank, wrote Wednesday that it was a stunning moment — “stunning it its ineptness, and stunning in its unprofessionalism.”
    CNN Completely Botched The Democratic Presidential Debate

    Again and again, CNN anchors substituted centrist talking points for questions ― and then followed up predictable responses with further centrist talking points, rarely illuminating any substantive disagreements between the candidates or problems with their policy positions.
    'CNN Is Truly a Terrible Influence on This Country': Democratic ...
    "This is an unusually vile performance by CNN," tweeted Rolling Stone contributing editor Matt Taibbi.Overall, a team of Rolling Stone writers called the debate moderators' questions "mystifyingly inane."
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  15. #1255
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    And this is why the Democrats will lose. Too busy fighting amongst each other to realize Trump is the bigger picture.

  16. #1256

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    And this is why the Democrats will lose. Too busy fighting amongst each other to realize Trump is the bigger picture.
    I wonder if the corporate centrists would secretly prefer a Trump reelection over a Sanders presidency. In truth, the God King hasn't much meddled with the fundamentals of the economy and/or foreign policy and part of me suspects that the well-to-do would rather tolerate Trump's boorishness (as much as it humiliates them) for a few more years than risk a Sanders revolution. After all, were the good Colonel to be comfortably put to flight in a general election, that could have the advantage of silencing the radical wing of the party.

  17. #1257
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    I wonder if the corporate centrists would secretly prefer a Trump reelection over a Sanders presidency
    You are more than right.
    ----
    Sanders Leads Democrats in New National Poll - Truthout

    It's just a new poll. I'm still quite skeptic.

    In truth, the God King hasn't much meddled with the fundamentals of the economy
    Sanders on Economic Inequality makes an excellent point, addressing these issues.
    -----
    In fact, Wealth inequality/concentration in the US is very high.A seminal work,WEALTH INEQUALITY IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 1913:EVIDENCE FROM CAPITALIZED INCOME TAX DATA Emmanuel Saez Gabriel Zucman
    * https://www.nber.org/papers/w20625.pdf
    Key points,

    Having a decent share of the national wealth for the middle class is good growth. It is actually useful both for equity and efficiency reasons. Also, extreme inequality can be bad for democratic institutions if it creates very unequal access to political voice, and the influence of private money in U.S. politics. Since wealth inequality is fueled by both rising income and rising saving rate inequality, policies need to address both trends. Progressive income taxation can reduce wealth concentration by limiting the ability of rich households to accumulate wealth. Estate taxation is critical to prevent self-made fortunes from becoming inherited wealth.

    The historical experience of the United States and other rich countries suggests that progressive taxation can powerfully affect income and wealth concentration. Other policies can directly support middle class incomes—such as access to quality and affordable education, health benefits cost controls, minimum wage policies, or more generally policies shifting bargaining power away from shareholders and management toward workers.

    In that case, policies to boost middle-class incomes would probably boost saving as well and powerfully affect the bottom 90% wealth share. Financial deregulation may have expanded borrowing opportunities (through consumer credit, home equity loans, subprime mortgages) and in some cases might have left consumers insufficiently protected against some forms of predatory lending. In that case, greater consumer protection and financial regulation could help increasing middle-class saving
    Last edited by Ludicus; January 18, 2020 at 07:10 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  18. #1258
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Why are you slandering Sanders?
    I am not for the reasons stated in my posts. Please see to them for my replies which will remain the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    I wonder if the corporate centrists would secretly prefer a Trump reelection over a Sanders presidency. In truth, the God King hasn't much meddled with the fundamentals of the economy and/or foreign policy and part of me suspects that the well-to-do would rather tolerate Trump's boorishness (as much as it humiliates them) for a few more years than risk a Sanders revolution. After all, were the good Colonel to be comfortably put to flight in a general election, that could have the advantage of silencing the radical wing of the party.
    I am 100% sure corporate centrists or even moderate leftwings would openly prefer Trump over Sanders. Trump is low-meddling, few-regulations, Sanders is pro-Union, pro-nationalization (although he knows he won't get it) and openly supports higher taxes, higher minimum salary, breaking up of huge banks (too big to exist) and high taxes.

    All in all, Sanders is terrible for big money. He is a good person, but a corporate centrist would want him for secretary of labor in a big influential state or something so that other states would copy what worked from his work and the governor of the state would make sure that Unions wouldn't be running the place.
    They would not want him for PotUS and they won't vote for him in elections, in fact most of them would vote for Trump over him or Warren.
    Of course... corporate centrists are few so Sanders could afford to lose their votes.

    Between Sanders or Warren and Trump, I hope Trump wins. He is the better of three evils. That's how much I mistrust Sanders.
    I would want him for a professor in my Uni, I would want him hanging out with my (communist) relatives although he's more leftwing that even people in my family that are enrolled in the communist party.
    I would certainly not want him at the head of the biggest economy in the planet. Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    "Progressive income taxation can reduce wealth concentration by limiting the ability of rich households to accumulate wealth. "
    " Estate taxation is critical to prevent self-made fortunes from becoming inherited wealth. "

    Yes, let's punish the rich for being rich and then make sure their kids won't inherit that money. God forbid parents manage to leave their self-made fortune to their kids. We don't want that, no, no, no.

    And we wonder whether corporate centrists would support Sanders.
    Last edited by alhoon; January 19, 2020 at 04:07 AM.
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  19. #1259

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I am not for the reasons stated in my posts. Please see to them for my replies which will remain the same.
    That's why I'm asking you why you're slandering Sanders. Your posts showed us that you had no valid argument to substantiate your labeling of Sanders as a commie.
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  20. #1260
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    That's why I'm asking you why you're slandering Sanders. Your posts showed us that you had no valid argument to substantiate your labeling of Sanders as a commie.
    Or, so you think, because my posts explained very well why Sanders is a commie and showed us you had no valid argument to the contrary.
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