View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    18 51.43%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 14.29%
  • Neither.

    12 34.29%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #1881

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    It was pretty hilarious given that in any example, Biden campaigned like he was running unopposed. That’s the power of being Obama’s VP I guess. We’ll see how badly the general electorate wants to tell Trump “no” come November, since few seem interested in telling Biden “yes.” If 2016 was any indication, winning by a few million votes isn’t good enough. Gotta put up bigger numbers in more places. I wouldn’t count Bernie out yet, either.
    You're jumping ahead of yourself. Don't burn November's bridge until it's actually November. First thing you gotta answer is how Bernie deals with next week's geography when most of the voters don't want Revolution and those that do aren't exactly showing up to the voting booth at the rate he needs.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  2. #1882
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    You're jumping ahead of yourself. Don't burn November's bridge until it's actually November. First thing you gotta answer is how Bernie deals with next week's geography when most of the voters don't want Revolution and those that do aren't exactly showing up to the voting booth at the rate he needs.
    By the same token I wouldn’t count Bernie out til it’s all over. He’s campaigning on the notion that his bread and butter policy stances can win over Republicans and independents. Winning over moderate Dems would be the proving ground. Biden was always going to do well in the South, but few predicted how well. I’ll be the first to admit I was dead wrong about Biden even up to now, and he’s my first choice

  3. #1883

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    By the same token I wouldn’t count Bernie out til it’s all over. He’s campaigning on the notion that his bread and butter policy stances can win over Republicans and independents. Winning over moderate Dems would be the proving ground. Biden was always going to do well in the South, but few predicted how well. I’ll be the first to admit I was dead wrong about Biden even up to now, and he’s my first choice
    Point is, as it stands, Bernie has something of a glass ceiling in voter age in who will vote for him. As I pointed out earlier, these are typically tracked in Younger than 45 and Older than 45. Bernie is attracting the Younger than 45 to the rallies in droves, but not to the voting booths. Biden is attracting the Older than 45 to the voting booths in droves. Which counts more? The Older than 45 don't really care for Bernie's platform. So Bernie's got that glass ceiling and he can't really expand his coalition. And now it's Biden's nomination to lose.

    What I wonder, can Bernie shift his platform to attract the Older than 45? Or can he add to his platform to attract the Older than 45? He's got to do SOMETHING.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  4. #1884
    Legio_Italica's Avatar Lost in Limbo
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Older than 45 remembers the Cold War. Not sure he can recover from “heck yeah I’m a socialist” and “Castro isn’t all bad.” I honestly thought M4A and getting money out of politics was a slam dunk marketing wise, given most people get their information from internet or TV.

  5. #1885

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Mmm, well we will see how the Sanders campaign reformulates their strategy. The polls were not good to Biden so this is a major upset. Biden is not invincible. His debate performance has ranged from decent to deplorably poor, and he has dozens of places to be attacked from. There are a lot of things to dislike about Biden and a clever campaign can exploit that. On the other hand, the biggest knock against Sanders is his radicalism. We'll see just how potent that play is, but it is entirely possible to make Biden as dislikeable and repulsive to voters as Hillary Clinton is today.

    Trump has shown just how powerful attack ads and aggressive rhetoric can be in a political arena, and the majority of the stuff he says doesn't even make any sense.

  6. #1886

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I don’t understand why Biden would state he is putting Beto in charge of gun control, essentially adopting his positions. Dumb move in my opinion. Now every single talking point against Beto belongs to Biden.

  7. #1887
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tgoodenow View Post
    I don’t understand why Biden would state he is putting Beto in charge of gun control, essentially adopting his positions. Dumb move in my opinion. Now every single talking point against Beto belongs to Biden.
    Biden wanted the endorsement for the Texan vote. My guess is that since he's already got the conservative/moderate vote in the primaries, he's hoping to attract people from the progressive lane (Warren types) by offering O'Rourke a position on gun control. Of course this sort of thing might backfire in the general, but anyone paying attention already knows that Biden is firmly opposed to the 2A.

  8. #1888

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Some interesting numbers: https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...rt-eliminating

    Every state that has exit polls literally said they support Bernie's golden goose of Medicare for All. By some shocking numbers no less. Numbers that say Medicare for All is not an age ceiling factor. But, ten of those states just up and voted against Bernie. Some of them in such a massive way compared to the exit polls.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  9. #1889
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Some interesting numbers: https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...rt-eliminating

    Every state that has exit polls literally said they support Bernie's golden goose of Medicare for All. By some shocking numbers no less. Numbers that say Medicare for All is not an age ceiling factor. But, ten of those states just up and voted against Bernie. Some of them in such a massive way compared to the exit polls.
    Sanders' problem is not his support for universal healthcare: it's the tens of trillions of dollars he wants to spend elsewhere. The way people react to individual proposals is different from how they react to those same proposals offered as a package.

  10. #1890

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Sanders' policies are popular, that's been touted repeatedly by the campaign. I've seen studies that lean towards voters being single-issue, but I think the reality is that voters weigh a number of considerations when choosing who to vote for. There are many factors at play and I don't think that either campaign has identified the key issues that can swing the election.

  11. #1891

  12. #1892

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    She should've done it before Super Tuesday.

  13. #1893
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Agreed: too little too late.

  14. #1894

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Warren Returns To Tribe In Shame After Failing To Take Land Back From The Pale Faces

    https://babylonbee.com/news/warren-r...-the-white-man

    Lmfao

  15. #1895
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    This is a trick question Bernie isn't answering correctly. To change the Democratic Party from the inside, you have to, well, be inside the Democratic Party.
    Bernie is "inside" the Democratic Party. He is officially an independent in the Senate, but let's keep in mind that Sanders has been accepted as a member of the Senate Democratic leadership. So...he belongs to the progressive wing of the democratic Party.
    -------------------
    Michigan is Bernie's Rubicon. Sanders desperately needs Warren, or the democratic race is almost over. As the song says-"to fight the unbeatable foe", Sanders needs a miracle.
    ----
    Edit,
    I really don't understand Jim Clyburn, the highest-ranking African American Democrat in Congress endorsed Biden. "You brought me back," Biden told Clyburn.
    Last January, Clyburn gave a speech,
    " ..Now, as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once told us to do, we must march on ballot boxes"

    ...to elect Biden? really?
    MLK was a democratic socialist. Clyburn conveniently forgot to mention that for King, the only solution to America's crisis of poverty was the redistribution of wealth. In a 1961 speech to the Negro American Labor Council, he stated, "Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children".

    Read carefully. On 4 april 1967, in a landmark speech "Beyond Vietnam", King declared,

    ...In 1957 a sensitive American official overseas said that it seemed to him that our nation was on the wrong side of a world revolution.

    During the past ten years we have seen emerge a pattern of suppression which has now justified the presence of U.S. military advisors in Venezuela. This need to maintain social stability for our investments accounts for the counterrevolutionary action of American forces in Guatemala. It tells why American helicopters are being used against guerrillas in Cambodia and why American napalm and Green Beret forces have already been active against rebels in Peru.

    Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken, the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments.

    I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values.

    We must rapidly begin [applause], we must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

    A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa, and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say, "This is not just."

    It will look at our alliance with the landed gentry of South America and say, "This is not just." The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just.

    A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death. [sustained applause]
    America, the richest and most powerful nation in the world, can well lead the way in this revolution of values.

    We must not engage in a negative anticommunism, but rather in a positive thrust for democracy [applause],

    We must with positive action seek to remove those conditions of poverty, insecurity, and injustice,

    These are revolutionary times.

    All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression, and out of the wounds of a frail world, new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the land are rising up as never before. The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light. We in the West must support these revolutions.

    It is a sad fact that because of comfort, complacency, a morbid fear of communism, and our proneness to adjust to injustice, the Western nations that initiated so much of the revolutionary spirit of the modern world have now become the arch anti-revolutionaries.

    This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all mankind.

    If we will make the right choice, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our world into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. If we will but make the right choice, we will be able to speed up the day, all over America and all over the world.
    Dear hypocrites : you shall not take King's name in vain.
    Full speech,





    --
    Food for thought, Voters overwhelmingly tell Kansas City to drop Martin Luther King street name

    Many supporters of the Martin Luther King name suggested the opponents are racist, saying Save the Paseo is a mostly white group and that many of its members don’t live on the street, which runs north to south through a largely black area of the city.
    Supporters of the Paseo name said it was a historic name for the city’s first boulevard, which was completed in 1899
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 06, 2020 at 09:18 AM.
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  16. #1896
    reavertm's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Point is, Bernie's voting crowd is shifting under his feet from 2016. The turnout numbers are going UP from 2016, but they're not going up for him. In fact they might be going down for him.
    You cannot really compare percentage from 2016 when at this stage he was running against Hillary alone to 2020 when the were five or six more candidates on the table.

    With all the spoilers out (except Gabbard, but DNC will be moving goal post to ensure she never qualifies for any debate from now on), the race will start from square one, though Biden has the momentum.
    But time, ironically and sadly, isn't visibly/audibly on his side, which probably Sanders won't exploit out of decency, Trump surely will.
    VP pick should be quite pivotal in this election more than in previous ones as there are progressives to be convinced to appear in general election on Biden side, and sub-urban moderates and normies to appear on Sanders side in DNC primary.

    And I wouldn't expect Warren to endorse Sanders anytime soon. She didn't in 2016, she probably won't now as that would require integrity (and burning bridges with establishment/moderates democrats to get her any significant position in next administration) which, frankly I keep hearing people say, she only had once she was still republican.
    Last edited by reavertm; March 06, 2020 at 08:58 PM.

  17. #1897
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    [an interesting analysis about Biden's win in ST]
    All good but... what this had to do with my post about the issue? You could have post that without quoting me as it had nothing to do with my post, unless I miss what's in front of my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    People need to realize that in 7 of 9 victory states last night, Biden had no offices and spent not a god damn dime. This was the most organic voting movement I've ever seen. This was literally the voters telling Bernie: "No."
    That. Simply put, Biden won because mainstream democrats, not the activist but the guy in the 3rd office down yours, a reasonable moderate guy, simply didn't like Sanders and wanted to express that he wanted moderate views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    What I wonder, can Bernie shift his platform to attract the Older than 45? Or can he add to his platform to attract the Older than 45? He's got to do SOMETHING.
    What I wonder is... does Sanders wants to? If there's one man that I am not sure he would "water down" his principles just to win the election, it would be Sanders.
    PS. I strongly disagree with Sanders, but he's decent. His views are more or less what they were 40 years ago when such things were insanely controversial. Changing his platform? I honestly don't see it. What I see is Sanders saying more or less "Look, that's me and that's my vision for USA. I realize I can't win every battle, but this is what I will work for. If you like it, vote for me. If not, have a good day sir or madam."
    I don't think he will change what's his vision for USA is just to win. Either his principles will win the nomination or not. I don't see him moving strongly towards the center.

    As such, I don't see him winning the general election against Trump even if he wins the nomination, because I don't think most of USA voters agree with his platform.


    Another thing: It seems like every day I check the news, there's at least a mention of Sanders openly disagreeing with things some of his followers do. Things like "This is nasty, I strongly condemn it" seems to be commonplace.
    This is a man of principles, I give him that. I disagree with many of his principles and views, but he has them. He doesn't pretend to have them, he has them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post

    Trump has shown just how powerful attack ads and aggressive rhetoric can be in a political arena, and the majority of the stuff he says doesn't even make any sense.
    Yeah, while I can see Sanders' campaign turning more aggressive and calling out bad things (in their opinion) that Biden did, I really really don't think he would get close to Trump rhetoric against Biden.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 06, 2020 at 09:38 PM.
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  18. #1898

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    All good but... what this had to do with my post about the issue? You could have post that without quoting me as it had nothing to do with my post, unless I miss what's in front of my eyes.
    Your post left out nearly every reason Biden won the votes he did. Are you saying I shouldn’t have quoted it?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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  19. #1899
    Slydessertfox's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Mountain View Post
    Sanders' policies are popular, that's been touted repeatedly by the campaign. I've seen studies that lean towards voters being single-issue, but I think the reality is that voters weigh a number of considerations when choosing who to vote for. There are many factors at play and I don't think that either campaign has identified the key issues that can swing the election.
    Specifically, voters this cycle care about electability above all else. And, inaccurately, I believe, the common conception of electability filtered through the media and through influential figures in the Democratic Party, is that the most electable candidate is an old centrist white guy. Voters listen to those queues, and when party figures and center-left media finally signaled in the 10 days from Nevada to Super Tuesday that they believed Joe Biden was the "electable" choice, the voters listened and broke heavily for him.

  20. #1900
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Your post left out nearly every reason Biden won the votes he did. Are you saying I shouldn’t have quoted it?
    You can quote whatever you like. All I am saying is that I didn't understand how your posts connects to mine.
    My post left out all reasons Biden won the votes he did and all reasons Sanders didn't get the votes he didn't get. If I happened to cover some, it was coincidence. I didn't try to touch or approach the subject. I found your analysis interesting regardless.
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