View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    19 48.72%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 12.82%
  • Neither.

    15 38.46%

Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #2161

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    On the issue you raise though how the state should act... fines. Fine those that gather on the beach just to spite authorities with a 100$ fine. Nothing more serious at this point.
    In my country, in a state of emergency, according to the law, people can be arrested.

  2. #2162
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Being communistic doesn't exclude a country for being highly democratic and free country,
    Are you kidding me? a communist country is not free.Period.
    ------
    You said"Down with unions. Don't let the commies win".As I said before, we care about the unions. Ergo, the commies have already won... according to your logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    an article that claimed it's Trump's fault that 20-years olds go to the beaches because weeks ago he was downplaying the coronavirus threat.
    I'm not surprised.
    According to Trump- I quote,
    What's the point of social distancing if 20% ignore the order?
    Our country wasn't built to be shut down. This is not a country that was built for this. It was not built to be shut down. If it were up to the doctors, they may say let's keep it shut down -- let's shut down the entire world. We're going to open up our country.
    Without comments.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  3. #2163

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Without comments.
    And thats what I don't understand. Democrats have Trump on record saying things like that and rather than trying to steer the discussion on the virus, Pelosi fills her coronavirus bill with Industry loans conditioned on PERMANENT paid leave, $15 minimum wage, ban on buybacks, executive compensation cap, and industry emissions standards. I've read it's got other crap like a post office bailout, same day voting registration, board of director diversity quotas and on and on.

    The senate is at an impasse over the bailout part and instead of both sides coming together to pass the money for families as a stand alone we're left with this clown show.

    Not sure whose winning the PR battle over this but the American people and the economy are the sure losers.

  4. #2164
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Are you kidding me? a communist country is not free.Period.
    Democratic, it can be. When I said "free" I obviously don't mean "Free Market" but freedom of speech, independent courts, freedom of movement etc.
    You know, all those things communists have promised but never delivered. I am not saying democratic communistic regimes are easy to find, I am saying a communist regime doesn't have to be undemocratic in order to be communistic.
    They all become authoritarian because they can't stay in power without authoritarian measures, not do the reforms they want etc but they don't have to be authoritarian. They choose to be authoritarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    You said"Down with unions. Don't let the commies win".As I said before, we care about the unions. Ergo, the commies have already won... according to your logic.
    First, I think it was clear I was exaggerating as I said several times that some unionizing is a good thing so we don't regress to the robber barons of the 19th century with the boss doing whatever he or she wants. Second, you guys have the communists in the government as you said and they play nicely, so you didn't let them win.
    Third and most important: We're talking about USA's commies, behind a major candidate. We're not talking about Portugal's history or commies. An example of "communists here are in the government and we're doing well" are of course relevant but let's not go too far from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    According to Trump- I quote,

    Without comments.
    Yeah, his crisis management is awful. But since the thread is about the democratic primaries: The democrats are not getting passing marks either.
    Both sides tried to pass things of their agenda inside the bill holding the USA economy and the people hostage as tgoodenow said.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  5. #2165

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The Democrats are not the only ones with blame. What they did was crappy but to be fair, the Republicans tried to put things in the bill that were favoring their own buddies - big money.
    However it is undeniable that democrats are worse IMO in this situation as some of the things they asked to put on the bill are even worse.
    Such as?
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #2166
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    And to get back to the democratic candidates: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...omic-stimulus/

    "Sanders objected to an amendment proposed on Wednesday afternoon by Senators Ben Sasse (R., Neb.), Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), and Tim Scott (R., S.C.) that would cap unemployment benefits at a worker’s previous salary level."

    Where Sanders thinks a reasonable cap would be? Twice what the unemployed person made as an employee?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  7. #2167
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Democratic, it can be. When I said "free" I obviously don't mean "Free Market" but freedom of speech, independent courts, freedom of movement etc.
    No, sorry. Under a communist regime, there is no freedom of speech, freedom of press,freedom of movement, or independent courts.

    Bernie Sanders' role in history is secure. CNN


    Sen. Sanders was instrumental to transforming the policy agenda within the Democratic Party. In presidential politics, Democrats had spent several decades since Ronald Reagan's victory in 1980 shifting to the center in an attempt to avoid being branded as too far left.

    Even President Obama, who pushed one of the boldest domestic agendas since the 1960s, was extraordinarily cautious in the way that he framed his government plans and avoided ideas that could be labeled as too radical. Rather than single payer national health insurance, for instance, the Affordable Care Act relied on regulatory mechanisms, online markets and expansion of existing programs -- such as Medicaid -- to provide better coverage.

    Sanders rejected all that. Together with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, he offered a robust and vigorous defense of government as a solution to our problems. He pushed for Medicare for All, free college and a Green New Deal, as well as other forms of aggressive government intervention, without apology.

    Sanders has shown that the future doesn't have to be about big donors even without a system of public finance being put into place. At the same time that he rails against the role of private money in politics, Sanders has also helped revolutionize campaign finance.

    When the history books are written, Sen. Sanders will end up being remembered as a hugely consequential figure.

    He also called on Democrats to remember their historic commitment to working class Americans, demanding a higher minimum wage and more stringent workplace safety rules.
    In other words, Sanders forced the party to debate these proposals rather than having debates on the terms that Republican defined. As a result, the party's conversation shifted dramatically to the left.

    Sanders also mobilized a new generation of Democrats into party politics. He built a movement behind his campaign,
    A majority of his followers are younger Americans who have been turned off and distrustful of politics but now see the possibilities of what our democracy can still offer. He has excited them with his moral clarity and passion for fighting against corrupt political structures. He has persuaded them to vote, to organize, to donate and to think that politics is worthwhile.

    In 2020, the campaign has also done a remarkable job of turning out the Latino vote, a crucial constituency in the next few decades. Through all of these efforts, Sanders has spawned an exciting generation of younger politicians, such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who will be important voices of the future.

    Given the severity of the health crisis we are facing, Sanders might even live to see Medicare for All become the law of the land.
    So, CNN pays huge tribute to Sanders, coming to the conclusion that...

    Biden is the candidate and in a moment of genuine, catastrophic crisis, the nation turns its lonely eyes to him
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 27, 2020 at 05:36 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  8. #2168

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Former Vice President Joe Biden is facing a new sexual assault allegation, from a woman named Tara Reade, who says she has been trying to share her story since 1993 when it allegedly happened. Reade’s allegation comes in the midst of Biden’s surging presidential campaign and is consistent with other stories women have shared about their discomfort with the way Biden has touched them.

    Reade was a staff assistant for Joe Biden in 1993, when she claims he digitally raped her. She told part of her story in 2019, when Lucy Flores wrote in The Cut about the inappropriate way Biden smelled her hair and kissed the top of her head. At the time, several other women came forward to say that Biden had touched them in ways that made them uncomfortable, including Reade, who said that Biden used to put his hands on her shoulders and run his fingers up and down her neck. Now, she has detailed what she says is the entirety of her experience with Biden on The Katie Halper Show.

    According to Reade, Biden pressed her up against a wall and digitally penetrated her without her consent. “It happened all at once, and then… his hands were on me and underneath my clothes,” she says. She also remembers him asking “do you want to go somewhere else?” and then, when she had pulled away, “Come on, man, I heard you liked me.” Reade says that “everything shattered” in that moment and his claim that he thought she liked him made her feel like she had “done this” somehow. “I looked up to him, he was my father’s age. He was this champion of women’s rights in my eyes,” she says. “I wanted to be a senator; I didn’t want to sleep with one
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newsp...1LiRA?ocid=sf2

    #believeallwomen

    Right guys ?

  9. #2169
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, sorry. Under a communist regime, there is no freedom of speech, freedom of press,freedom of movement, or independent courts.
    Not necessarily. Communism doesn't require these things. Many communist regimes had to use those things in order to bring an unpopular ideology in power or to keep it in power.

    Did Sanders end his campaign?! What happened?
    Last edited by alhoon; March 27, 2020 at 03:06 PM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  10. #2170

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Did Sanders end his campaign?! What happened?
    No. But Bernie isn't running against Biden anymore in his manner of campaigning. That's a distinct thing. He's thinking he's running against something...ethereal in the sense that he's not pulled out but he's not saying anything against Biden to pull any of Biden's big endorsements from progressive unions to major politicians to whomever to his side.

    And...here's your numbers. Bernie seems to think he can focus on New York. Which is...laughable. Bernie needs to win EVERY remaining primary, no matter the delegate count, in a 60%-40% fashion to just catch up, much less take the lead and win. And for every primary he doesn't make that cut that number just climbs.
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  11. #2171
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Not necessarily.
    Hmm? you said "Democratic, it can be". There is a huge between theory and practice.No, it's not democratic.Totalitarian, certainly.
    Sanders will fight until the last battle, so his movement can live on by dragging Biden leftward (Medicare for all, etc).
    Bernie Sanders Plans to Participate in Next Debate
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #2172

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    It's the end of March and that debate doesn't even have a sponsor yet. Nevermind a sound-stage or date. Bernie's kinda grasping here.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  13. #2173
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Bernie needs to win EVERY remaining primary, no matter the delegate count, in a 60%-40% fashion to just catch up, much less take the lead and win. And for every primary he doesn't make that cut that number just climbs.
    Numbers are not looking good Ludicus. He has lost and everyone knows it. I also agree that he stays so he can pull Biden to the left and talk about his issues. Also perhaps to force concessions from Biden like a promise to put people with beliefs similar to Sanders in the administration etc etc.

    I have to say this for Sanders: He's certainly tenacious.
    And he had to be because what he says now is stuff he was saying in the 80s. And unlike 2020, back then such things were the left-wing equivalent of ... [insert fringe far-rightwing USA politician here since I don't know any].
    And he kept repeating them for 30+ years until they became mainstream, and he's an important factor of why they became mainstream.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 28, 2020 at 04:14 PM.
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  14. #2174

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    I don't really get the rational behind the "stay in primaries to push Biden left". Marxists are rather loud, but competitively minor demographic within Democrat electorate, dominated by clintonite unionist neoliberals. The only reason for Biden to adopt even more left wing policies would be if marxists outnumbered clintonites, but until that happens numbers talk and walks, especially with a lot of former being "vote the blue no matter who" kind of people who are still going to vote for Biden, even while his policies poor people much more then policies of Trump.

  15. #2175

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't really get the rational behind the "stay in primaries to push Biden left". Marxists are rather loud, but competitively minor demographic within Democrat electorate, dominated by clintonite unionist neoliberals. The only reason for Biden to adopt even more left wing policies would be if marxists outnumbered clintonites, but until that happens numbers talk and walks, especially with a lot of former being "vote the blue no matter who" kind of people who are still going to vote for Biden, even while his policies poor people much more then policies of Trump.
    More than half the American public support Medicare for All. Does that make half the Americans Marxist?
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #2176

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    More than half the American public support Medicare for All. Does that make half the Americans Marxist?
    That's largely irrelevant. Primaries show that American public isn't really that crazy about Sanders or his policies. Heck, the fact that he de-facto lost to a guy who can't be shown to public for longer then a minute without a PR disaster, speaks for itself.

  17. #2177

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    That's largely irrelevant. Primaries show that American public isn't really that crazy about Sanders or his policies. Heck, the fact that he de-facto lost to a guy who can't be shown to public for longer then a minute without a PR disaster, speaks for itself.
    Nice deflection but no, it's not irrelevant. It's direct evidence of what the American public desires. So, tell us. Does that make half the Americans Marxist?
    The Armenian Issue

  18. #2178

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Nice deflection but no, it's not irrelevant. It's direct evidence of what the American public desires. So, tell us. Does that make half the Americans Marxist?
    If public cared about Bernie's policy, he wouldn't have de-facto lost the primaries. This is evidence that Sander's policies are not something that American public desires.

  19. #2179
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If public cared about Bernie's policy, he wouldn't have de-facto lost the primaries. This is evidence that Sander's policies are not something that American public desires.
    havent you been arguing for the last three pages that Bernie is a commie and that his past comments make him unelectable? if so you've already admitted that theres more to Bernie not winning the primary than his policies

    also hes running against the VP of the most popular democratic president in recent memory, so theres that too. Not to mention all the endorsements from DNC chairs, offices etc that that entails. Biden was dead in the water until the Clyburn endorsement for instance.

    that said I still think Bernie should have won this, but the democratic party has a lot of fail safes in place that prevent someone like Sanders from ever winning. The people in charge of the country are scared to death of a left populist candidate ever coming to power though, and they own the media. Old media is still a powerful tool.
    Last edited by RedGuard; March 29, 2020 at 03:13 PM.

  20. #2180

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    that said I still think Bernie should have won this, but the democratic party has a lot of fail safes in place that prevent someone like Sanders from ever winning. The people in charge of the country are scared to death of a left populist candidate ever coming to power though, and they own the media. Old media is still a powerful tool.
    Well...that's the catch. It's not that there's fail safes to keep him from winning. It's more that Biden has worked with the Democratic Party for his entire political career, where Bernie has worked with the Democratic Party when politically convenient for himself. The democratic politicians have literally no obligation to play nice with Bernie, where they know what working with Biden is like and how it works. How did anybody think this was going to go, especially when Bernie can't even expand his base?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
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