View Poll Results: Who's your favourite candidate for the 2020 Democratic Primaries?

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  • Bernie Sanders.

    18 51.43%
  • Joe Biden.

    5 14.29%
  • Neither.

    12 34.29%
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Thread: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

  1. #2181

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    havent you been arguing for the last three pages that Bernie is a commie and that his past comments make him unelectable? if so you've already admitted that theres more to Bernie not winning the primary than his policies

    also hes running against the VP of the most popular democratic president in recent memory, so theres that too. Not to mention all the endorsements from DNC chairs, offices etc that that entails. Biden was dead in the water until the Clyburn endorsement for instance.

    that said I still think Bernie should have won this, but the democratic party has a lot of fail safes in place that prevent someone like Sanders from ever winning. The people in charge of the country are scared to death of a left populist candidate ever coming to power though, and they own the media. Old media is still a powerful tool.
    I don't really see the contradiction here - Bernie's policies is what caused him to lose the primaries. With Biden's public image being more of a liability then an asset, I don't really see how there was any major disadvantage for Bernie campaign... other then Bernie himself.

  2. #2182
    RedGuard's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Well...that's the catch. It's not that there's fail safes to keep him from winning.
    the superdelegates would beg to differ. the amount of candidates in this primary that were carbon copies of each otehr would beg to differ. The exit polls would beg to differ. the coin tosses in the primaries would beg to differ. I could go on
    It's more that Biden has worked with the Democratic Party for his entire political career, where Bernie has worked with the Democratic Party when politically convenient for himself
    well yeah, thats part of running as an independent. Except In Bernies case hes no fool and knows that hes had to work with the democrats his whole life, and as has already been stated previously hes on several democratic party positions. its a bit hypocritical for them to want his vote then claim "hes not a real democrat" when they LET him run as a democrat nominee for president.
    The democratic politicians have literally no obligation to play nice with Bernie, where they know what working with Biden is like and how it works.
    No one said that they do. At the same time you'd have to be blind not to see how this whole primary revolved around stopping Sanders, and looking for a viable alternative to Biden. They succeeded in the first and failed in the second, and now they will pay the price come hell or high water.
    How did anybody think this was going to go, especially when Bernie can't even expand his base?
    He has expanded his base, but not enough. He had the downside of the bases he needed to expand into already being locked down by other candidates in many ways. Warrens non-endorsement didn't help, since she was the clear choice of the left leaning urban whites this election, which Bernie needed to win. I still think he will win a lot of them back when they see the dumpster fire coming, but its probably too late.
    Last edited by RedGuard; March 29, 2020 at 03:40 PM.

  3. #2183

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    the superdelegates would beg to differ.
    Do you really think it's going to make it to the second ballot?

    Get back to me with an honest answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    He has expanded his base, but not enough. He had the downside of the bases he needed to expand into already being locked down by other candidates in many ways. Warrens non-endorsement didn't help, since she was the clear choice of the left leaning urban whites this election, which Bernie needed to win. I still think he will win a lot of them back when they see the dumpster fire coming, but its probably too late.
    Primary vote count has gone up from 2016. Except they're voting for Biden, not Bernie. Bernie's vote count in major states he won has gone down by huge margins from 2016. Which implies they were voting against Clinton, not for Bernie.

    Get back to me with an honest reply.
    Last edited by Gaidin; March 29, 2020 at 03:53 PM.
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  4. #2184
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't really see the contradiction here - Bernie's policies is what caused him to lose the primaries. With Biden's public image being more of a liability then an asset, I don't really see how there was any major disadvantage for Bernie campaign... other then Bernie himself.
    except you can clearly pinpoint the day that Biden went from a doomed campaign to the front runner, which was the date of the South Carolina Primary. Meanwhile Bernie has gone up steadily, while Biden skyrocketed. You can't just say "its the policies". Its clearly not. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...tion-6730.html

  5. #2185

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If public cared about Bernie's policy, he wouldn't have de-facto lost the primaries. This is evidence that Sander's policies are not something that American public desires.
    Not really. Politics is not simplistic like that. I'm sure you know that as its a basic idea. You're simply throwing this argument because you said something stupid and you're unable to acknowledge that.
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  6. #2186
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Do you really think it's going to make it to the second ballot?

    Get back to me with an honest answer.
    No I don't. But that was the whole point of throwing so many useless candidates at the wall to see what stuck, then telling them behind closed doors all to get out at the same time and endorse the same candidate.

    aka fail safes


    Primary vote count has gone up from 2016. Except they're voting for Biden, not Bernie. Bernie's vote count in major states he won has gone down by huge margins from 2016. Which implies they were voting against Clinton, not for Bernie.

    Get back to me with an honest reply.
    those votes will disappear as soon as Trump is out of office. Also more people are voting for Trump now than ever before. They're voting for the candidate that the media are telling them will win vs trump, because they're low information voters. I'd like actual evidence that Bernie's margins have gone down with the same people that voted for him in 2016, that sounds like corporate media clap trap to me. Problem with Bernie is hes winning over a lot of people that have lost all faith in the democratic process, for good reason apparently.

    Biden is the toilet paper panic of candidates. its all herd mentality. "he can beat trump!" except Bernie can too, even more so. "His policies can actually get passed" except his already moderate proposals will just be pushed farther right as he "works" with republicans, aka give them everything they want so that they can both walk away like winners.

    he hasn't said anything meaningful in the past week because Trump did the exact same thing he would have done
    Last edited by RedGuard; March 29, 2020 at 06:27 PM.

  7. #2187

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Not really. Politics is not simplistic like that. I'm sure you know that as its a basic idea. You're simply throwing this argument because you said something stupid and you're unable to acknowledge that.
    If Bernie's ideas aren't as popular, then how come he lost to frickin' Biden? You can't argue that majority of Americans support Sanders while he lost the primaries to a neoliberal human fossil.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    except you can clearly pinpoint the day that Biden went from a doomed campaign to the front runner, which was the date of the South Carolina Primary. Meanwhile Bernie has gone up steadily, while Biden skyrocketed. You can't just say "its the policies". Its clearly not. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...tion-6730.html
    That has something to do with other candidates dropping out at pretty much the same time.

  8. #2188
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    havent you been arguing for the last three pages that Bernie is a commie and that his past comments make him unelectable? if so you've already admitted that theres more to Bernie not winning the primary than his policies.
    Nope, he hasn't. I have been that one.

    And yes, it's not that some of his policies don't have traction, it is that the rest of his policies and his previous career scares people away. So, Sanders stays in the race so that Biden would adopt the "popular" part of Sanders' agenda even if it means transforming it to something "less" than Sanders wanted.
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  9. #2189
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    So could Biden be impeached if he won the election? His "alleged" actions in Ukraine would be the pebble that started the ripples of the political poo storm.

  10. #2190

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    If Bernie's ideas aren't as popular, then how come he lost to frickin' Biden? You can't argue that majority of Americans support Sanders while he lost the primaries to a neoliberal human fossil.
    I didn't say majority of Americans support Sanders. I said majority of Americans support one of his policies, namely Medicare for All. Now, try to respond without distorting what I say.
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  11. #2191
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    So, Sanders stays in the race so that Biden would adopt the "popular" part of Sanders' agenda even if it means transforming it to something "less" than Sanders wanted.
    in other words exactly what Sanders would do himself if he were elected. I don't know why people don't or can't understand that none of the policies Sanders proposes would be passed as stated. Which is why when Warren backed off Medicare for all it tanked her campaign. Another clue that it wasn't the Sanders policies.

    So could Biden be impeached if he won the election? His "alleged" actions in Ukraine would be the pebble that started the ripples of the political poo storm.
    yeah, if theres more evidence uncovered of pay for play in this regard. Majority of Democrats have elected 4 more years of political theater
    Last edited by RedGuard; March 30, 2020 at 07:45 AM.

  12. #2192

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    in other words exactly what Sanders would do himself if he were elected. I don't know why people don't or can't understand that none of the policies Sanders proposes would be passed as stated. Which is why when Warren backed off Medicare for all it tanked her campaign. Another clue that it wasn't the Sanders policies.
    Why would it tank her campaign, if a majority of Americans (presuming Setekh is correct) support it?

  13. #2193
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Why would it tank her campaign, if a majority of Americans (presuming Setekh is correct) support it?
    mostly because she gave away the game too soon. She split up the policy into two votes. Where the first vote was meant to give everyone a public option, and the hypothetical second vote would take away private healthcare after everyone was signed up to the presumably superior government plan. Problem is no experts actually believed she could ever possibly deliver the second vote. And the mainstream media was extremely critical of it (not really surprising considering CNN is basically the propaganda wing of AARP) And the second vote was completely unnecessary because all of the benefits would be on the first vote- it was basically a way of her trying to have her cake and eat it too. She was giving people an out and republicans a chance to repeal the policy by shooting down the second vote and letting healthcare companies continue to exist and drive up the cost of healthcare in exchange for profit, while still delivering a "public option". It was at this point that Sneaky Pete Boot-edge-edge surpassed her because he was offering just a public option. She lost her supporters that saw her as a moderate progressive that was pro-medicare for all and it hurt her credibility.

    but honestly whatever the hell she was offering, and I'd go so far to say even what ing Kamala Harris was offering as a public option would be better than Joe Biden's "lets just fix the broken and in ruins obamacare" plan. Its dead and its not ever coming back, most people just don't know it yet, sort of like Joe Biden overall.
    Last edited by RedGuard; March 30, 2020 at 08:13 AM.

  14. #2194

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    mostly because she gave away the game too soon. She split up the policy into two votes. Where the first vote was meant to give everyone a public option, and the hypothetical second vote would take away private healthcare after everyone was signed up to the presumably superior government plan. Problem is no experts actually believed she could ever possibly deliver the second vote.
    Ah, so, something like a it's popular until the details are gotten into...

  15. #2195
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Ah, so, something like a it's popular until the details are gotten into...
    more like when you make the details needlessly complicated, yes.

  16. #2196

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I didn't say majority of Americans support Sanders. I said majority of Americans support one of his policies, namely Medicare for All. Now, try to respond without distorting what I say.
    Again, if his policy is so popular, then how come that policy didn't win him the primaries?

  17. #2197
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    That has something to do with other candidates dropping out at pretty much the same time.
    Again, if his policy is so popular, then how come that policy didn't win him the primaries?
    repeating the question a dozen times because you don't like the answer doesn't make you correct

    Not really. Politics is not simplistic like that. I'm sure you know that as its a basic idea. You're simply throwing this argument because you said something stupid and you're unable to acknowledge that.

  18. #2198

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Again, if his policy is so popular, then how come that policy didn't win him the primaries?
    Does the popularity of a candidate solely dependent on a single policy every time? No. Why are you trying to argue as if it does?
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  19. #2199

    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGuard View Post
    repeating the question a dozen times because you don't like the answer doesn't make you correct
    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Does the popularity of a candidate solely dependent on a single policy every time? No. Why are you trying to argue as if it does?
    So is it the policy they support or proposed result of that policy? So is it people who want "free" healthcare, or people who support his whole policy including its implementation?

  20. #2200
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    Default Re: USA Democratic party 2020 candidates and primaries thread

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bide...ry?id=69812092


    not good for Biden. Most people are only "somewhat enthusiastic" towards voting for him. 24% are very enthusiastic compared to 53% to Trump. Considering how close the election was last time in terms of sheer votes, the side with the most enthusiasm is going to win this thing, assuming enthusiasm equals getting out to vote as soon as they get off work or polls open vs "I'll come out and vote sometime today... Ahh oh well my state probably wont matter anyway"

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