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Thread: Various downtimes today

  1. #21
    Gigantus's Avatar I am thinking more about running away now then I did as a kid, but by the time I put my teeth in, my glasses on and find my car keys I forget why I am going.
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Late to the party - afaik spoilering pictures does not stop them from being downloaded when the thread page gets accessed. I sometimes open spoilers only to see pictures already half displayed and slowly filling up, or already totally downloaded. Hence my comment, and I am on a slow connection.




  2. #22
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Ok lots of comments here and I not going to try to quote them all and respond individually.

    What I am focusing on is processing time. The amount of time it takes to generate the html that is then sent to your browser. Image issues and stuff like that, which absolutely do have an impact on page "speed" are outside the scope of what I am doing right now. That is our biggest problem with site speed. If you need that proven to you, then go to the wiki and create a page that has those same 5-6 ridiculously sized images in it and then load that page. It loads MUCH faster, running on the same server.

    The image size (or attachment size) isn't really an issue when it comes to processing the page. That only becomes an issue once the page has been processed and is being sent to you.

    Putting images in spoilers does not increase page speed. It actually adds a few k of code that has to be processed.

    We have all kinds of issues like CSS that is not very optimized, plugins that may not be playing well together, lots of stuff. Restricting images and the like is not going to solve our core problem when we have php problems.

    Probably the best way I can demonstrate the difference is something I bet a lot of people do not know. On Chrome, when you click on a website there is a little circle in the top of the browser bar that spins. Watch it, because it changes direction. It spins counterclockwise when you first click, its waiting for a response from the server. When the server finishes processing that page it sends a response to your browser. When it gets that response it spins clockwise, and spins clockwise while it is downloading the actual page. So go to the forum index and click Reload.

    All that time it is spinning counterclockwise is what I am working on. All that time it spends clockwise is download time. When we get the first fixed, the second wont be nearly as big an issue. For the people that insist on posting huge images, we will have to have some conversations. But restricting images by type flat out isn't going to work as most of the site files are png. People just have to be told to use some common courtesy. Just like people have to be told once in a while THAT IT IS NOT COOL TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS.

    Internet etiquette is learned, just like every other courtesy you can name. Some people have just never been told. If I have to tell moderators to just start editing images out of posts and telling the poster to repost them in a more user friendly fashion, I will. But realistically anytime anyone runs across something like the one linked above they should post about it, just as you would if someone posted in all caps all the time. It shouldn't be just moderators that mention that kind of stuff.

  3. #23
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Ok, as guideline posting images in jpg is preferred?
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. (Morticia Addams)


  4. #24
    Gigantus's Avatar I am thinking more about running away now then I did as a kid, but by the time I put my teeth in, my glasses on and find my car keys I forget why I am going.
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Yes, it has the lowest memory\size ratio. Sage Thumbs actually allows you to convert common picture formats, even TGA, to JPG (as well as GIF, BMP and PNG) by simply right clicking the picture.
    Last edited by Gigantus; April 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM.




  5. #25
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    I use steam, It uses only jpg for Screens. Thanks.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. (Morticia Addams)


  6. #26
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Just to clarify while keeping it simple about pics formats:

    GIF format is limited to 256 colors and is a lossless compression file format, a common choice for use on the Web. GIF is a good choice for storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a small file size. Support transparency.

    PNG format is a lossless compression file format, which makes it a common choice for use on the Web. PNG is a good choice for storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a small file size. Support transparency.

    JPEG format is a lossy compressed file format. This makes it useful for storing photographs at a smaller size than a BMP. JPG is a common choice for use on the Web because it is compressed. Doesn't support transparency. For storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a smaller file size, GIF or PNG are better choices because they are lossless.

    For those who are interested, you can check this article, pretty detailed while keeping things easily understable by anyone.
    So yes, JPEG is preferable but not always an option. Allowing just one format of pic, like Steam f.e., is far too limiting. TWC covers a larger scope and different kind of areas than just screenshots of games
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; April 26, 2019 at 02:13 AM.
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  7. #27
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar BEARDED MODERATION
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    Ok lots of comments here and I not going to try to quote them all and respond individually.

    What I am focusing on is processing time. The amount of time it takes to generate the html that is then sent to your browser. Image issues and stuff like that, which absolutely do have an impact on page "speed" are outside the scope of what I am doing right now. That is our biggest problem with site speed. If you need that proven to you, then go to the wiki and create a page that has those same 5-6 ridiculously sized images in it and then load that page. It loads MUCH faster, running on the same server.

    The image size (or attachment size) isn't really an issue when it comes to processing the page. That only becomes an issue once the page has been processed and is being sent to you.

    Putting images in spoilers does not increase page speed. It actually adds a few k of code that has to be processed.

    We have all kinds of issues like CSS that is not very optimized, plugins that may not be playing well together, lots of stuff. Restricting images and the like is not going to solve our core problem when we have php problems.

    Probably the best way I can demonstrate the difference is something I bet a lot of people do not know. On Chrome, when you click on a website there is a little circle in the top of the browser bar that spins. Watch it, because it changes direction. It spins counterclockwise when you first click, its waiting for a response from the server. When the server finishes processing that page it sends a response to your browser. When it gets that response it spins clockwise, and spins clockwise while it is downloading the actual page. So go to the forum index and click Reload.

    All that time it is spinning counterclockwise is what I am working on. All that time it spends clockwise is download time. When we get the first fixed, the second wont be nearly as big an issue. For the people that insist on posting huge images, we will have to have some conversations. But restricting images by type flat out isn't going to work as most of the site files are png. People just have to be told to use some common courtesy. Just like people have to be told once in a while THAT IT IS NOT COOL TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS.

    Internet etiquette is learned, just like every other courtesy you can name. Some people have just never been told. If I have to tell moderators to just start editing images out of posts and telling the poster to repost them in a more user friendly fashion, I will. But realistically anytime anyone runs across something like the one linked above they should post about it, just as you would if someone posted in all caps all the time. It shouldn't be just moderators that mention that kind of stuff.
    Couldn't have said it better myself

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    Case in point in establishing priorities - this is immediately relevant, has wide measurable symptoms and negatively affects site usability in all levels; and it seems to be independent of the outside media brought here unless the outside media is putting massive global strain on editing systems in particular (?). Once this is pinned down and addressed, we can look to the issue of media threads and decide from there if we want to address it specifically. Keep in mind that should this be resolved, the server will have a strong net gain, as well as the user outside of media threads. Said threads do not represent a substantial portion of the TWC experience and I've yet to see evidence that what is quoted below is such a major priority (that would, ultimately, reduce the functionality of those threads) to reduce the site's capacity to be useful on the whole for a limited portion.
    Sorry, I'm on my phone but you could check GED's latest post right above, since it's 100% my point of view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Just to clarify while keeping it simple about pics formats:

    GIF format is limited to 256 colors and is a lossless compression file format, a common choice for use on the Web. GIF is a good choice for storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a small file size. Support transparency.

    PNG format is a lossless compression file format, which makes it a common choice for use on the Web. PNG is a good choice for storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a small file size. Support transparency.

    JPEG format is a lossy compressed file format. This makes it useful for storing photographs at a smaller size than a BMP. JPG is a common choice for use on the Web because it is compressed. Doesn't support transparency. For storing line drawings, text, and iconic graphics at a smaller file size, GIF or PNG are better choices because they are lossless.

    For those who are interested, you can check this article, pretty detailed while keeping things easily understable by anyone.
    So yes, JPEG is preferable but not always an option. Allowing just one format of pic, like Steam f.e., is far too limiting. TWC covers a larger scope and different kind of areas than just screenshots of games
    Thanks for the detailed explanation buddy
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 26, 2019 at 04:47 AM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔Greek Strategos♔ View Post
    Sorry, I'm on my phone but you could check GED's latest post right above, since it's 100% my point of view.
    Which 100% validates my shpeel on priorities and captures the essence of what I want to say perfectly as well.

  9. #29
    Gigantus's Avatar I am thinking more about running away now then I did as a kid, but by the time I put my teeth in, my glasses on and find my car keys I forget why I am going.
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodia_Metelli View Post
    I use steam, It uses only jpg for Screens. Thanks.
    Old school PRT SC button still works in Steam (M2TW at least). That one produces TGA pics, they get stored in the aptly named tgas sub folder. Better quality.
    Last edited by Gigantus; April 26, 2019 at 08:09 AM.




  10. #30
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Old school PRT SC button still works in Steam (M2TW at least).
    That actually works for every Steam game provided that the user has chosen that key to take a screenshot in-game, if I am not mistaken.
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  11. #31
    Imperator Majora's Avatar What's under your mask?
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    That actually works for every Steam game provided that the user has chosen that key to take a screenshot in-game, if I am not mistaken.
    Depends on the game. Old school style draws on the game's built in screenshotting, and the game's built in screenshot functionality may vary (different key, different level of quality, etc). It does invoke windows screenshot as well for whatever that's worth, sometimes nothing, sometimes quite useful (though not in any intensive games as far as I can find). And then we have the steam version of .JPG screenshotting, by default F12 and indeed functional on PRT SC if you manually set it up to do so.

    For a quick screencap on Medieval 2 Steam's functionality is the best bang for buck in regards to space, while the built in becomes relevant if you want to use the game to produce, as Gig linked above, a very high quality screenshot that should probably not be used on TWC as a full image under any normal circumstances. I'm not counting any other utilities to screencap in this, which might be equally usable or more so over Steam while maintaining an economic screenshot size.

  12. #32
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    I am going to take the site down for a few hours again tonight. Hopefully this is the last time for a while.

  13. #33
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    I am running an import of the entire site database to a sandbox site. I had the site turned off for that when I started but after watching it for a while decided I can open the site back up while it runs. Since that is eating most of the disk i/o though the site will be slower than normal for a few hours. Page generation times for me are right around 8-9 seconds.

  14. #34
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    I have been up for about 20 hours so I am going to bed. The import is 3/4 or so done, so the site should return to normal in an hour or two. Finish the sandbox setup tomorrow.

  15. #35
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Thank you for keeping us updated.
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  16. #36
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar BEARDED MODERATION
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    While you are at it GED, could we please have a wrap spoilers (quick reply) button, like the wrap quote's one?
    It'll be very useful for us Moderators, since loading when we edit posts on advanced is taking a long time.

    Cheers

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    About 10-15 minutes ago I lost connection to TWC and the same thing happen with YouTube as well.

    Did Cloudflare had an issue this time as they have had issues before?
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Considering I experienced nothing on either, sounds like it's a very temporary and/or local glitch at best, and not worth noting unless there are other symptoms.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator Majora View Post
    Considering I experienced nothing on either, sounds like it's a very temporary and/or local glitch at best, and not worth noting unless there are other symptoms.
    I think so too. I happen to know that Cloudflare has a server located in Copenhagen and this isn't the first time it happen.
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Various downtimes today

    Try using this next time it happens. Like it says on the box, it will tell you if it's down for everyone, or just you:

    Down for Everyone or Just Me?
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