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Thread: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

  1. #41
    Centenarius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    One more suggestion, it would be nice to integrate the Port of Piraeus submod into this mod. I bet Srenhr91 would have no issue with this, but be sure to ask.

    Here's a link: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...rt-(DeI-1-2-5)

  2. #42

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Thanks Fluke, but the strategic port is a downgrade to the one in Total Realism. Better if it's optional.

    I've started a game and may do an AAR. The merc options as the HL are superb, and allowed me to capture Crete quickly. Downside is that Mercs are expensive and wreck the top population classes, so I'll need to rely on levies for Makedonian conquest. Fine by me.

  3. #43
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    @Basilius - got a question regarding the submod.

    I'm not using this submod but I am playing in the same way as you proposed in this submod. I roplayed as "greek alliance" and made a houserule to never declare war on factions that I can confederate with (except aetolian league, screw them!) Following this rule I confederated Rhodos, Knossos, Pergamon and finally Sparta, which rejected all confederation bids until we got war declared by Seleucids and all their vassals (we were in def alliance and I guess the AI felt threatened after having war with such a huge empire). As a result of the confederation I got my hands on 6 spartan hoplites - however the AI does not comprehend reforms mechanics. My question is if I can enable your submod, reform spartan hoplites to theuros reforms and then disable the submod to play normally. Should that break my save or will it be ok? Do you think it can affect my save in any way?

    Will be glad to hear your feedback

    By the way, this submod looks awesome. I may try it with next athems campaign which is bound to happen sooner or later as it is my favourite faction.

    Also, have you added the special lvl 5 barracks of Sparta to HL building roster? Seems reasonable to do so, I guess.

    Cheers!

  4. #44

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Hey Nordling; I love your confederate idea! Can you explain in more detail how it works? Do you just butter up other Greeks in the hopes you can eventually confederate them? My favorite faction is also Athens, and I may try this with them.

    To answer your questions:

    I think it'll work, but to be safe, I'd make a copy of your save as backup. Otherwise you can try it. Also, the League does have the Spartan lvl 5 barracks, though it has no name for some reason.

  5. #45
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    @Basilius, basically yeah, I threw money at the other greek factions in order for them to like me. The way the diplomacy works is that factions are much more likely to accept treaties if they are weak or lost recently. so i made friends with all the greek factions, watched closely as Rhodos and Pergamon were slowly destroyed by Seleucids (I'm using AoH from Seleukos as well so seleucids are pretty strong) and at their weakest I proposed lots of cash and confederation which they gladly accepted. This has slowed down my cmapaign considerably as I had to hoard quite a treasury in order to do so but was still satisfied with the final result. As explained earlier, sparta was not willing to accept the confederation for some reason, but finally i managed to do so. The confederation is also a pretty strong stuff, considering that i acquired 7 regions through confederations alone. The final touch was changing government to oligarchy which is closest government style to an allied polis which all "have a seat in council". I like to porttrait the other families in the politics as allies from the coalition which all have different agenda (just like you did in the submod). Thus, if i get a civil war it's more like rhodos declares "screw them, i'm backing out of this alliance". kinda like in the times of delian league.

    Just launched your submod and it looks really cool! All the subtle touches are awesome like new faction traits, units renamed, new names for political parties. All just adds to the flavour. One thing that I can't wrap my head around though - why did you change stat of athenian hoplites to be on par with rhodian? I think that it was fine the way it was before; +10 armor but -5 morale just added to the flavour suggesting that all allies states provide soldiers of different qualities.

    Did the trick with enabling and disabling the submods, seems to be working after a couple of turns. Thanks for the feedback

    Cheers!

    EDIT: Just came to my mind that there is a great potential for roleplay with this submod. Just basically do what I did however you cannot recruit any soldiers from either spartan or rhodean roster until you confederate! That way you have the potential to recruit spartans etc. but you must first make them agree to your confederation proposition. That basically means - just forget the "easy diplo" step in the OP.
    Last edited by Nordling; August 25, 2019 at 03:40 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    why did you change stat of athenian hoplites to be on par with rhodian?
    I wanted to normalize all the hoplites to avoid a player spamming 1 type. But, similar to the generals, if people feel the hoplites should all be slightly different, then I'd be down to do that.

    Just basically do what I did however you cannot recruit any soldiers from either spartan or rhodean roster until you confederate!
    I love this idea, but it would drastically expand the mod. Which isn't a problem if people are interested. Maybe I can make a secondary one?

    I could make a Hellenic League Plus, wherein I include one unit from every (non-Diadochi?) Greek culture that you can confederate with. The house rule would be that the player cannot use that unit until they've confederated their nation. Garbad suggested a similar roster here.

  7. #47
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    @Basilius, I guess that you can confederate only with 5 factions at the moment (aetolians, sparta, knossos, rhodos and pergamon) so the roster is ok as it is, at least imo. Plus you can get creatn archers as mercs + AoR (same goes for rhodean slingers) so there is no immediate need to include those into the actual roster. Spartan hoplites (perhaps it's worthwhile to consider skiritai swordsmen as well) are fine from sparta plus maybe 1 or 2 pergamon units are more than enough as additions to athenian roster which is pretty steong as it is. Bosphoran kingdom is too far off to include em imo.

    The roster, and the whole submod, is really well made so there is no immediate need to change anything; besides those athenian hoplites bit that's just my personal opinion and it's easily editable in the tables if someone wishes so.

    All in all kudos for the submod which looks really cool for me. I will consider launching your submod with my ongoing campaign as it does not really conflict with the way i was playing it, however i don't have time for R2TW lately due to my developing relationship... guess it's either GF or DeI
    Plus rep!

  8. #48

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Thanks. I pretty much can't play R2TW anymore due to the same reason. =)

    I may just make an expanded mod with more units. I really like the confederate idea. Absorbing Greek Polis, Kingdoms, and Diadochi is too fun to pass up.

  9. #49

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    Thanks. I pretty much can't play R2TW anymore due to the same reason. =)

    I may just make an expanded mod with more units. I really like the confederate idea. Absorbing Greek Polis, Kingdoms, and Diadochi is too fun to pass up.
    I have to say for flavour I wouldn't be keen on seeing confederations with Kingdoms or Diadochi. Spartan confederation I can stomach due to the quasi-democratic nature of Spartan government, but there's no way a king (think Pergamon, Epirus, Makedon) would voluntarily give up sovereign power to become part of a democratic entity such as the League unless they were the hegemon.

  10. #50

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Ended up getting the Greek DLC and have been thinking of something similar. When I'm rewriting history, I'd like to feel like I am. I would love it if the talented folks that gave us DeI had alt-history military units, but can see that leading to them constantly defending why unit "X" exists and why "Y" is OP.

    May start my own thread, but I'm thinking reforms also be government type based. Greek politea I'd imagine would develop similarly to Rome, as their rule spreads they have to incorporate different peoples' style of war or traditions, that are suppose to be equal. The only way to solve this problem would be to break up different recruits from the same polis, get rid of old ideas and allegiances. The military becomes a way to rise in social class immediately for all citizens, irregardless of which polis they're from, especially those of smaller poli aristocracy that are suddenly made unimportant compared to all the rest of the aristocracy in all the "united" provinces.

    The government comes to be dominated by a pro-war, non-ruling class political power party and a self-called pro-peace (except when it might create $$$), pro-commerce, upper class. The nobility from poorer poli might not like having to deal with up-jumped merchants, but would come around to be won over by their coin.

    The Hellenic army I'd expect to be influenced or based on a marine "standard" when they make a national army. Navies require more coordination and planning, so I'd think if Athens/Hellenic League grew, they'd (including merchants hiring mercenary protection) adopt a standard "marine" fighting force more similar to a legionnaire in ability and tactics than a spearman or hoplite. Like the legionnaire, it would be more a jack-of-all-trades soldier with a high standard of professionalism supported by growing wealth from trade. Possibly adopting much heavier armor after expanding north beyond Makedon or dealing with the Romans.

    I'm thinking if a monarchy reforms, their roster would be more localized but with even more elite local units to signify the greater amounts of wealth nobles would be able to acquire in a rich, expanding empire.

  11. #51

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Hey Basilius thanks again for this - been playing a new campaign and having a great time!

    One thing I noticed - after thureos reforms the Athenai Hippeis get upgraded to Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis, but the General bodyguard unit doesn't and remains the pre-reform Athenai Hippeis.

    I've changed it in my mod file through PFM but just thought I'd give you a heads up.

  12. #52

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Thanks Epanastatis.

    It's impossible for me to continue modding for two reasons: 1.) I got married =) and 2.) My Rome 2--rather mysteriously--has become frozen in time and refuses to recognize additional new mods or tweaks to existing mods. I've tried reinstalling the game and mods to no avail. It's kind of fascinating, but I don't have the time to address it, and it may be a cosmic sign that I should spend less time on games anyways.

    So if you or someone else would like to continue this mod, you have my blessing. I only ask you occasionally upload your file here so others can enjoy your changes. Otherwise I encourage people to be on the look-out for some exciting Athenian developments in DEI:

    1.) (WIP) Updated visuals from the main DEI team

    2.) (WIP) Updated Unit Cards by Sourav

    3.) (Released and WIP) Athens overhaul by Demosthenes26

    Perhaps the HL can be integrated into those; who knows?

  13. #53

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    My city is affected by the coronavirus and I've had some time to revisit this mod. I still think the mod itself is solid, and haven't seen a lot I need to change. Perhaps Epanastatis or others disagree?

    I've instead added the following recommended guides and submods to the second post on the front page:

    Recommended Mods


    Recommended Guides



    Also added recommended army compositions and grand strategy.
    Last edited by Basilius; March 17, 2020 at 02:49 PM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    @Basilius
    I was actually going to inquire about this submod's status; I think I'll use it when I eventually play a campaign with one of the city-states. As long as it's still compatible, the reforms work as they should, and you all think the roster is good as is, then it sounds like I'm mostly good to go. I may try it by starting out as a confederation with the Easy Diplomacy mod or slowly confederate naturally and only use the units from the respective places I own.

    And to chime in, I am in favor of the different hoplites having different stats: it's more realistic and interesting, and if the player is min-maxing which ones they use then it's their problem for abiding by good house rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epanastatis View Post
    One thing I noticed - after thureos reforms the Athenai Hippeis get upgraded to Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis, but the General bodyguard unit doesn't and remains the pre-reform Athenai Hippeis.

    I've changed it in my mod file through PFM but just thought I'd give you a heads up.
    How and where exactly do you make this change in the files?

  15. #55

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    As long as it's still compatible, the reforms work as they should, and you all think the roster is good as is, then it sounds like I'm mostly good to go.
    Yup; should be good to go.

    am in favor of the different hoplites having different stats: it's more realistic and interesting, and if the player is min-maxing which ones they use then it's their problem for abiding by good house rules.
    Okay, I'll take a crack at it. Thinking: Athenians have +10 Armor, Spartan have +1 Stam, and Rhodian have +1 M.Attack +1 M.Defense.

    How and where exactly do you make this change in the files?
    So, oddly enough, one of the ways I fixed my mod issues was by having the new launcher order mods itself, and then I moved stuff around. When this is done, the HL shouldn't have cav generals at all. I'll add Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis as a general sense people seem to want it.

  16. #56

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    Okay, I'll take a crack at it. Thinking: Athenians have +10 Armor, Spartan have +1 Stam, and Rhodian have +1 M.Attack +1 M.Defense.
    Maybe Spartans get a little more morale too?

    I also had another thought: if the mod is editing unit stats, it wouldn't be properly compatible with KAM's Experimental Battle Pack, would it? And in that case, one would simply need to remove the edits to unit stats, because the faction recruitment option is not effected by KAM's pack, right?

    So, oddly enough, one of the ways I fixed my mod issues was by having the new launcher order mods itself, and then I moved stuff around. When this is done, the HL shouldn't have cav generals at all. I'll add Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis as a general sense people seem to want it.
    All I'm saying is that the bodyguard units should change with the non-bodyguard unit with the reforms; are those working as they should? Is the Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis not originally intedid to be a BG unit or are most Hellenic city-state factions not supposed to have cav generals after the Thureos Reforms? I'm not as familiar with Hellenic rosters/reforms as I should be (most of my campaigns in the last year or two have been with either Roma, Parthia, or the Roxolani...I love horse archer amies too much).

  17. #57

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    I also had another thought: if the mod is editing unit stats, it wouldn't be properly compatible with KAM's Experimental Battle Pack, would it? And in that case, one would simply need to remove the edits to unit stats, because the faction recruitment option is not effected by KAM's pack, right
    Correct. This won't be an issue for long, because KAM is incorporating his battle pack into the main mod soonish.

    Is the Athenai Epilektoi Hippeis not originally intedid to be a BG unit
    Also correct. I don't want pre-reform Cav BG because having your general in the front lines on the right side of the phalanx was very important to the classical greeks.
    Last edited by Basilius; March 21, 2020 at 12:20 AM.

  18. #58

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    Correct. This won't be an issue for long, because KAM is incorporating his battle pack into the main mod soonish.
    Oh...soonish you say? Do you have some kind of "submodder's inside information"? I asked KAM when it will be added to the main mod in the Battle Pack mod's thread and he said there's no timetable for it (it's good to not get people hyped up with a specific date because it's ready when it's ready). I've watched his progress with the pack and it's gotten me excited enough to edit Testudo's RPGu component to be compatible.

    Also correct. I don't want pre-reform Cav BG because having your general in the front lines on the right side of the phalanx was very important to the classical greeks.
    Ah, I understand. Were any general bodyguard units removed from what's available in regular DeI? Are there bodyguard units available from the different confederation factions to show the different city-states contributing equally to the military?

    I also took notice of the additional guides; are the listed army compositions based on actual historical greek hoplite armies or are they mostly there to present the player with balanced and effective compositions?

    And finally, is that lvl 5 Spartan barracks only available in the Sparta region or is it available in any region of the Achaia province?

  19. #59

    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Oh...soonish you say? Do you have some kind of "submodder's inside information"?
    Ha, fair enough. I just mean soonish for DEI time, which is probably 2020.

    Ah, I understand. Were any general bodyguard units removed from what's available in regular DeI? Are there bodyguard units available from the different confederation factions to show the different city-states contributing equally to the military?
    Athen's traditional BG options were Hoplite, Logades, and Hippeis. The HL's BG options are Logades, Picked Rhodian Hoplites, and Royal Spartans, all with unique buffs. My next update will include Elite Hippeis, as people seem to want a Cav BG option.

    I also took notice of the additional guides; are the listed army compositions based on actual historical greek hoplite armies or are they mostly there to present the player with balanced and effective compositions?
    Mix of both.

    And finally, is that lvl 5 Spartan barracks only available in the Sparta region or is it available in any region of the Achaia province?
    I dunno...I've never tried building it outside of Sparta!

  20. #60
    Centenarius
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    Default Re: [SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

    Basilius, I wanted to let you know that I am still enjoying your mod and that I appreciate your recent work on it again. Keep improving this terrific mod.

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