[SUBMOD] The Hellenic League

[NorthernXY]

Damn, just realized I need a DLC to play as Athens.

[Fluke]

I've started a new v1.2.5 campaign using this mod and so far so good. They seem to play well together. I did notice so far that of the three General units, only the Spartan unit has 300 men. The other two only have 200 men.

Update 1: The Cretan Levy unit has javelins assigned to it in this submod. I believe this wasn't intended. I have fixed my copy of the mod. They are now just a basic spear unit.

Update 2: The Athenian Levy unit (Greek Infantry) has javelins assigned to it in this submod. I believe this wasn't intended. I have fixed my copy of the mod. They are now just a basic spear unit.

[Basilius]

Trying to find the time to update this. I also really want Dresden to make a settler mod. Population problems are a to deal with as the League.

is it possible to use this mod via Steam?

If you're asking "is it on steam's workshop mods", it's not, though I could add it. Otherwise see Garbad's answer.

Damn, just realized I need a DLC to play as Athens.

*Shakes fist at CA*

I've started a new v1.2.5 campaign using this mod and so far so good.

The mod mostly works but I need to remove the replicate units and update stats.

I did notice so far that of the three General units, only the Spartan unit has 300 men. The other two only have 200 men.

The problem is that changing # of men in a unit is a pain in the rear. Dresden has it as part of the scripts, and it's hard to mod that. You could do it manually (lmk if you need help).

Update

Regarding the levies, javelins are actually intended, as EB2 had them. But play as you like.

[Fluke]

The problem is that changing # of men in a unit is a pain in the rear. Dresden has it as part of the scripts, and it's hard to mod that. You could do it manually (lmk if you need help).



Regarding the levies, javelins are actually intended, as EB2 had them. But play as you like.

Thanks for the reply Basilius, I just dismissed the Athenian and Rhodian generals on the starting turn and then reinstated them. I modded the main v1.2.5 pack file and they went to 300 after that.

Funny, I read both Hellenic League threads back in the day and I must have forgotten you including javelins for the levy units. They were definitely OP for the money with those javelins so I took them out.

Looking forward to your update for v1.2.5. This is a terrific sunmod!

[Basilius]

Thanks. I'm still open to feedback, so if you think levies are OP with javs, I'll take 'em out.

I'm also prob gonna add Spartan Youths and maybe add Thorax Swords. Let me know your thoughts.

[Fluke]

Thanks. I'm still open to feedback, so if you think levies are OP with javs, I'll take 'em out.

I'm also prob gonna add Spartan Youths and maybe add Thorax Swords. Let me know your thoughts.

I would definitely add Spartan Youths. I would love to pair with the other one I got in the Spartan spawn army. I would like two in the army to protect the flanks.

As for the Thorax Swords how about adding Pergamon's but only after they join the League or become a client state? Might as well throw in their great peltast unit, the Phrygian Peltasts.

[Basilius]

I'm more inclined to add Epirus' Thorax Swords over Pergs, as the former is closer to the League's sphere of influence.

So I reviewed the mod last night and I need to import the new patch's unit stats & rosters. This is quick & simple. The only thing I'm worried about are changes to unit stats in the new patch:

Tweaks to hoplite phalanx, overall Hoplite units are more usefull in early game but are outclassed by late game infantry like Thorakitai

Yet...the only change I see to Hoplites in the gamefiles is a higher charge value. Kam is notoriously opaque, so I need to sit down and investigate all the small changes that may have messed with my mod's refinement of certain units. I hope to do that this weekend.

[Fluke]

I also just noticed that I cannot recruit Rhodian assault ships at their port (or any port). I can only obtain Rhodian ships via mercs. I think we should be able to at least recruit Rhodian naval units from the special port at Rhodes. I also can't seem to recruit the Rhodian slinger versions as well.

Update: I can see in the custom battles menu that I can recruit the Rhodian marines variants of their assault ships and Rhoian slingers playing as the Hellenic League. But in the Grand Campaign I can only recruit the variants manned by Athenian marines and Athenian archers.

[Basilius]

Hey Fluke; I don't follow. My understanding is that there are ships and there are marines. There's no difference between Athenian and Rhodian assault ships; the only difference is which marines are on board. So you're asking that the port @ Rhodes unlock Rhodian marines? I can do that, but why? Rhodian marines are inferior to Athenian ones. For flavor? (Rhodian slingers make sense.)

Further, I'm not seeing them in my custom battle roster. Do you mind posting a screenshot?

[Fluke]

Hey Fluke; I don't follow. My understanding is that there are ships and there are marines. There's no difference between Athenian and Rhodian assault ships; the only difference is which marines are on board. So you're asking that the port @ Rhodes unlock Rhodian marines? I can do that, but why? Rhodian marines are inferior to Athenian ones. For flavor? (Rhodian slingers make sense.)

Further, I'm not seeing them in my custom battle roster. Do you mind posting a screenshot?

I believe Rhodes has access to one 160-man assault ship that Athen doesn't if I remember correctly. It also has the unique access to the recruitable slinger ships.

As for why, I think the Rhodian marines look better than their Athenian counterpart, but mostly, I think it makes sense that native units from the League would be recruited in their native lands. For instance, I kept the general unit at Rhodes as a Rhodian hoplite. This gives the campaign flavor. A Rhodian general would field mostly Rhodian units, a Spartan general would field mostly Spartan units, etc.

Even better, though more complicated, would be we could only recruit certain pre-Helenic League faction specific units in their representative homeland.

Examples: Rhodian slinger and 160-man assault ships at Rhodes. Spartan generals, hoplites, etc at Sparta.

But keeping this just to naval units for now, since Rhodes has a special port, it should be easy to allow the recruitment of Rhodian-manned ships at Rhodes. Rhodes was primarily a naval power at the time and I feel most of their contribution to the League would have been naval.

To get the Rhodian naval units in the Custom Battle area I simply selected "Naval Battle" on the right, and then "Helenic League" as the player faction. You will see them there. If not I can take a screen for you.

[Basilius]

Okay guys, update:

Download Link

• Added Spartan Youths
• Added Epirus Thorax Swords
• Removed (Non-Spartan) Thorax Hoplites
• Removed Javs from Cretan & Athenian levies
• Updated unit stats (Kam buffed charge values across the board)
• I didn't update text. LMK if you notice a text issue.

I'm pretty happy with the League...with one big exception: Thureos reforms, which is arguably the most important part of the game. Simply put, all the League has are sub-optimal pikes. In fact, there are no non-levy Theuros Spears in the game.

There's one enormous exception to this: Athenian Elite Thureos Spears. These guys are insane. They're a pop 3 sidegrade to Thorax Spears (-10 armor in exchange for +2 stam!) that come online during Thureos. They're incredible, they're spammable, and they're almost perfect for the league.

I would include them but for balance and lore reasons. Lorewise, why are an elite spear unit pop 3? Balancewise, they basically make Thorax Spears obsolete.

Unless....we also bring in Athens' pop 3 Thorax Spears too! (And maybe buff their stam?) This would give the League incredible Thureos & Thorax spear units that we can spam. We can give the lore justification that the League had inclusive reforms, similar to Rome. I think this is a perfect fit, but would obviously buff the league to being a tier 1 faction.

What say you all?

Edit: Fluke -- The League has the Rhodian Hextreme =) I'll consider your other suggestions; thank you.

[Fluke]

Thanks for the update, I'll give it some play time with a new campaign.

And I like your idea about the pop 3 later spear units. Please implement that.

And I hope you like my Rhodian naval idea.

[Jake Armitage]

Well done basilius!

As a side note, wouldn't be better to have the download link into OP?

[Basilius]

Yup; updated there too.

• Added pop 3 Elite Thureos Spears
• Added pop 3 Thorax Spears (replacing pop 2)
• Added pop 3 Lancers (replacing pop 2)

I'm pretty happy with the current roster. Granted these changes are ahistorical, but are very important for balance. We can also roleplay that the league instituted inclusive military reforms, similar to Rome.

The one change I'm waffling on is the stamina for the Thureos Spears. Athens has them at 4 stam, which is OP. I've nerfed them down to 2 to be strictly inferior to Thorax spears. But perhaps this is too much...should they be stam 3?

Also, I'm not seeing the new faction (Kimbroz) anywhere (custom battles or campaign). Can someone confirm they're there?

[Fluke]

Yes, I am seeing Kimbroz in both campaign and custom battles. DLC faction? I don't remember.

Stam 3 for Thureos I would say. Their lighter armor should allow them better stamina than Thorax.

[Epanastatis]

Hey Basilius congratulations on the latest release, good to see you working hard on this mod as it is close to my heart.

Playing the new Alexander campaign at the moment, but once I'm finished I'll grab this and give it another whirl!

[Basilius]

Thanks Epanastatis. I hope your current campaign is going well.

Yesterday I ran into a lot of problems with the mod, and I can't tell if it's just on my end. My old saves aren't working, I'm seeing the original Athenian custom battle roster, and Greek Levies are suddenly pop 2. But at least I can see Kimbroz!

I'm looking into these problems this week, and I hope to have a stable version by the weekend.

Here are some anticipated changes:

• Buff AOR Corinthian Thureos Spears (to be a pop 2 alternative to Hellenic Thureos Spears)
• Give Hellenic Thureos Spears 3 Stam (gives them some use late game)
• Update the Navy to use Athenian Marines but Rhodian Slingers
• Consider a new Cav...late game Lonchophoroi are awkward.
  
  • Jav: Hippakontistai -> Tarantine -> Elite Tarantine (Bueno)
  • Lancer: Sarissa -> (AOR Thessalian Cav->) Xystophoroi (Bueno)
  • Light/All-purpose: Lonchophoroi -> Elite Athenian Cav (Awkward)
  
  

I feel like the Elite Athen Cav is a good upgrade to the Lonch when using a top tier army. But for normal Thorax armies Lonchophoroi seem out of place (though not obsolete). I see two options:

• Let the player choose from AOR units to fill that role
• Add a Melee Cav

Heppeis are too well-rounded and I don't want to include companion cav, as those are successor IP. Is there a good cav in the game that could succeed the Locho? Or is a weakness here justified?

For reference, Garbad has a good post on Greek Cav.

[Jake Armitage]

Keep it up!

[Fluke]

[*]Light/All-purpose: Lonchophoroi -> Elite Athenian Cav (Awkward)
I feel like the Elite Athen Cav is a good upgrade to the Lonch when using a top tier army. But for normal Thorax armies Lonchophoroi seem out of place (though not obsolete). I see two options:

• Let the player choose from AOR units to fill that role
• Add a Melee Cav

Heppeis are too well-rounded and I don't want to include companion cav, as those are successor IP. Is there a good cav in the game that could succeed the Locho? Or is a weakness here justified?

For reference, Garbad has a good post on Greek Cav.

I would vote for the first option, let the player choose from AOR cav, which by this time, they should have good access to.

[Basilius]

Okay lads this should be a stable version. OP updated.

Changelog

• Incorporated changes from last post (no cav change)

Known Issues

• Euzonoi take from pop 2, instead of pop 3 (1.2.5 issue)
• Custom Roster also includes default Athenian units (1.2.5 issue)

I'm pretty happy with the current roster. Unfortunately I won't have time to play for a while, so I'll rely on you all for feedback.