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Thread: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn View Post
    Prodromos, I just don't even understand this post. No well-respected Biologist, Psychologist or M.D. believes that all behavior is genetic. That's what adherents to eugenics believe, and I shouldn't have to remind you how discredited eugenics is as a scientific field of study. But onto your other point "What does it add to the discussion to say that homosexuality is genetic?" chiefly, it establishes the point that homosexuality is not really a choice(although if you read the article posted above, homosexuality is clearly not JUST a result of genetic factors, but environmental ones as well), and unlike your comparison of the genetic element of homosexuality to the heritability of alcoholism, homosexuality is not considered a disease by the DSM--so the comparison is just plain ridiculous.
    Many adherents of naturalism believe that our genes and environment (which are factors beyond our control) are the governing forces behind our thoughts and behavior, yet these same people will make the argument that since homosexuality isn't a choice, it's therefore not immoral to act on it. Doesn't that strike you as faulty reasoning? If we take that argument to its logical conclusion, wouldn't we have to concede that no behavior is immoral?

    "No one has caused himself: No one chose his genes or the environment into which he was born. Therefore no one bears ultimate responsibility for who he is and what he does." - There's No Such Thing as Free Will - The Atlantic

    "If you think carefully about any decision you have made in the past, you will recognize that all of them were ultimately based on similar—genetic or social—inputs to which you had been exposed. And you will also discover that you had no control over these inputs, which means that you had no free will in taking the decisions you did." Free Will Is an Illusion, so What? | Psychology Today

    "According to neurobiologist Robert Sapolsky, all of our actions can be attributed to our biology. ... 'The basic theme is that we are biological creatures, which shouldn't be earth-shattering. And thus all of our behavior is a product of our biology, which also shouldn't be earth-shattering—even though it's news to some people.'" You Have No Free Will - VICE

    If all behavior is beyond our control, what does it add to the discussion to say that homosexuality is beyond our control?
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  2. #42
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Genghis Skahn,

    The Daily Mail report was at the beginning of the week so I'll have to search through the papers to find it. Paul writes that some converts to Christ were homosexual or alludes to it yet tells them that they are now no longer under that influence being new creations in Christ showing the love and grace of God towards any sinner. His or her sin was defeated at the cross by Jesus dying for their sin and all that was asked of them was to believe it and keep their eyes on Jesus and by that using prayer as a means of His power to overcome anything that is sinful.

    Now regarding preference by men or women in regards to their sexuality is it not true that many men marry and have families yet only later are attracted to other men and just so with women? If it was a gene thing when does it kick in?

  3. #43
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    They were days, or better, weeks, I wanted to post this: I find totally immoral deciding and planning what they should be the the physical or mental characteristics of a child. This is immoral because children are not commodities, children are human beings, and nobody apart God (if you believe in His existence) and/or nature should decide what a human being has to become in his damn ing life! Merchants, doctors and usurers should keep their dirty hands away from human procreation, we are not commodities, we are men.

  4. #44
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    The study in question came from the Broad Institute of the US, co-authored by a Dr Benjamin Neale. The study found that an individual's genes have less influence on the sexuality than their height or educational ability. They could not find the genetic marker from which there was a gay gene. The originator of that himself said that it was too complicated and therefore too simple to make such a claim. So, if this report is correct, parents get what they get, like it or lump it.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Surely God's plan was for people to be gay, so therefore being a homophobe is denying God's Master Plan and therefore blasphemy.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    If you're going to argue on the basis of Calvinist predeterminism, then it must be stated that all acts - including blasphemy itself - were ordained at the beginning of time within the Logos.



  7. #47
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Surely God's plan was for people to be gay, so therefore being a homophobe is denying God's Master Plan and therefore blasphemy.
    TheLeft,

    How do you make that out? Perhaps you know something we don't so why not share it?

  8. #48

    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ep1c_fail View Post
    If you're going to argue on the basis of Calvinist predeterminism, then it must be stated that all acts - including blasphemy itself - were ordained at the beginning of time within the Logos.
    Interesting point!

    Quote Originally Posted by basics
    How do you make that out? Perhaps you know something we don't so why not share it?
    Think about it..

    Apparently everything that happens is according to God's grand design, after all isn't the oft repeated mantra "God has a plan"?

    With that being the case, and with gay people being born that way, isn't homophobia protesting God's Master Plan? And therefore blasphemy?

  9. #49

    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Nope, because divine sovereignty doesn't do away with human responsibility. Contrary to popular belief (including among some Calvinists), even in Calvinism humanity retains freedom of choice, so reprobates still willingly and voluntarily choose to do evil.

    "According to these definitions we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. ... For we do not say that man is dragged unwillingly into sinning, but that because his will is corrupt he is held captive under the yoke of sin and therefore of necessity will in an evil way. For where there is bondage, there is necessity. But it makes a great difference whether the bondage is voluntary or coerced. We locate the necessity to sin precisely in corruption of the will, from which follows that it is self-determined."

    John Calvin, The Bondage and Liberation of the Will: A Defence of the Orthodox Doctrine of Human Choice against Pighius
    Satan is a perfect example. He can only do evil all the time, and yet he's fully culpable for his actions and commits them voluntarily though out of necessity.

    Scripture is clear that all sexual immorality can and should be condemned by Christians. Where did you read that God forbids Christians to oppose immorality? I've never heard of a Christian who espouses this view.
    Last edited by Prodromos; September 10, 2019 at 10:46 AM.
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  10. #50
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Is it moral for parents to decide not have gay children?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    Interesting point!



    Think about it..

    Apparently everything that happens is according to God's grand design, after all isn't the oft repeated mantra "God has a plan"?

    With that being the case, and with gay people being born that way, isn't homophobia protesting God's Master Plan? And therefore blasphemy?
    TheLeft,

    Yes, God does have a plan and it's called redemption. Man has a will but it never was free as the rule in the garden plus the curse of sin displays. Man went from the arms of his Creator into the arms of Satan in two steps, one he disbelieved God and two he disobeyed Him. The plan of redemption was then put into place by the promise of Jesus Christ coming to redeem man from his sin. Homosexuality is just one of other sexual sins and these apply more often to non-homosexuals so why make homosexuality to be greater than these others when it is not. Man was never meant to sin in any respect plus there being no league tables of sin then why try to make it so?

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