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Thread: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

  1. #1
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    I am not a great fun of President Trump. However, I don't by default disagree with everything he says blindly.

    Recently, Trump suggested (and ICE at first thought it was a joke) to release immigrants in sanctuary cities. The motivation for this was actually a repugnant, vindictive thought to "punish" political opponents according to some sources.

    Now, I certainly don't condone playing with people's lives and basing policies on petty motivations. However, that aside... I don't see any problem with what Trump suggested.

    Sanctuary cities voted to support immigrants. As in, they elected officials that are against enforcing immigration. So... is it so bizarre to think they're pro-immigrant?
    Also, while immigration is a big problem for USA, all things considered ... it's not that horrible for some of the rich and huge cities like LA and NYC to have a million or so immigrants between them. Their metro areas are vast and their economies dwarf even some developed nations with similar population.
    If anything, LA and NYC are some of the richest places in the world. If Greece with a population of 12M people 1.2 of which were at some point immigrants (illegal or legal) then two megacities that combined with some of their closest suburbs are well over 20M people can certainly accommodate a few hundred thousand immigrants.

    So... what's the problem with Sanctuary cities actually doing what they voted to do? They should have, IMO, embraced the opportunity to prove they can put their wallet where their mouth is.
    Would it lead to an increase in crime? Yes, but they can hire more policemen and they have been sanctuary cities for some time already. It's not like they're foreign to crime.

    Especially that part (from Washington Post):
    " The White House suggested both transporting migrants who were captured at the border and those currently being held in facilities to sanctuary cities where local authorities don't cooperate with federal immigration enforcement authorities. Among the areas targeted: Democratic strongholds, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's district in San Francisco. "
    Well, the Democrats made a huge deal (and rightfully so!) about dividing the families at the border and keeping kids separate from their parents. Indeed it was inhumane. It's quite better to simply send them to San Francisco, which is a big (metro 4.7M people), rich city (GDP 150B$) that voted to support immigrants.
    Well, then do so! Get the families of the immigrants held separate in those inhuman facilities together and stop the madness of tearing families apart. San Francisco can then put them in the facilities they like or whatever.


    "
    Pelosi’s office blasted the plan.
    “Using human beings — including little children — as pawns in their warped game to perpetuate fear and demonize immigrants is despicable.” "
    It would indeed despicable... if that happened.
    But they didn't use them to demonize immigrants. They suggested that cities that voted to support them and shield them, actually take them. Take those little children and protect them instead of using them in democrat warped games to perpetuate fear and demonize Republicans that simply asked "Oh, you voted to shield them? Very well, here are some of the kids then."
    The people in those cities voted to shield the immigrants, they voted!

    Clarification: I don't support Trump's petty and punitive action of "target the districts of my enemies!", I am talking about coming into an agreement with Sanctuary cities to indeed take over immigrants so that families can be together and holding facilities could be lighter and reserved for more dangerous illegal immigrants.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 12, 2019 at 09:30 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    The people in those cities voted to shield the immigrants, they voted!
    Of course they did. Plain and simple virtue signalling... until they're actually called out to walk the walk. Then it becomes a wholly different story altogether.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Because it's kinda pointless. These cities aren't prisons. There is nothing stopping migrants from leaving a sanctuary city and spilling out into the rural Trump supporting areas if, as Trump and his supporters desperately hope, everything goes to hell.

  4. #4
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    And there is nothing stopping those cities from putting up shelters for the immigrants and offering them minor jobs or put them in holding centers where the conditions are much better than the ones in ICE holding centers.
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    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Besides being a pretty great troll, I don't think it's a good idea. As mentioned, they can just leave those cities.


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    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Opening the borders to own the libs.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    I think it's a good suggestion. Even better would be to ensure that all those individuals - not communities held hostage by majority vote - embracing illegal immigration will have to shoulder the burden themselves, with no state or federal "bailout" in case they take on more than they can swallow. Let them house those illegals on their own property and feed them with their own money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Because it's kinda pointless. These cities aren't prisons. There is nothing stopping migrants from leaving a sanctuary city and spilling out into the rural Trump supporting areas if, as Trump and his supporters desperately hope, everything goes to hell.
    But what if there were? The rest of the country could just enforce laws enabling it to deport them as soon as they leave a "sanctuary city".

  8. #8
    Gäiten's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    And the Sanctuar cities will have to give them welfare, housing, medical help for free.

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    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    While that would be a hilarious way of owning the libs, it's an example of a short-term political victory which, long-term, would do far more damage to the republic than anything that could be gained by it.

  10. #10
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    If you come illegally, you need to leave. If you come legally, you should be made welcome.

    This sanctuary city thing is stupid, you’re acknowledging them which is a shot in the foot. The very concept of sanctuary cities should be opposed, allowing illegals in is a contradiction.
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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Because it's kinda pointless. These cities aren't prisons. There is nothing stopping migrants from leaving a sanctuary city and spilling out into the rural Trump supporting areas if, as Trump and his supporters desperately hope, everything goes to hell.
    LA, San Francisco, New York, it's a good bet these are the places these illegal immigrants want to get to anyway.

    Opening the borders to own the libs.
    Disgracefully our federal courts are blocking the President from faithfully enforcing the laws Congress have passed.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; April 13, 2019 at 08:46 AM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    While that would be a hilarious way of owning the libs, it's an example of a short-term political victory which, long-term, would do far more damage to the republic than anything that could be gained by it.
    Of course they don't imagine that one day liberals might take the government back and look for revenge if laws specifically targeting citizens for punishment for wounding the president's fragile ego are okay.

  13. #13
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Again, I would like to reiterate that I don't support a "let's bus them to San Francisco, open the doors of the bus, give them a pat in the back and drive away."

    But a system for those cities that voted to protect illegals from deportation to actually do it in a feasible manner could be implemented. As I said, those cities could set up their own, high standard facilities and holding centers and as others mentioned provide medical care, welfare etc to the immigrants from their funds or even raise local taxes for that purpose. A very light "let's help the immigrants!"-tax for the 4.5M people in SF (that again, voted to shield the immigrants), say 5$ per year to 500$ per year for the very rich, in a way that it averages like 30-40$ per citizen, would get 150M$+ per year.
    That is enough to build facilities, hire doctors, hire policemen, hire councilors, hire lawyer firms to help the illegals with the federal law etc.

    In such facilities, the illegal immigrants won't be running around raising crime and all, but the good apples could be more easily divided from the bad apples, with opportunities through legal actions and lawyers etc to become legalized or at least get a temporary visa and at the very least: Keep families together.
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  14. #14
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Of course they don't imagine that one day liberals might take the government back and look for revenge if laws specifically targeting citizens for punishment for wounding the president's fragile ego are okay.
    Indeed, as with the Emergency funding for the wall this is a dangerous precedent Trump has set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Political violence wasn't started or popularized by Nazis, nor is there any association between the two. The fact that Antifa violently respond to far-right movements is a sign of a healthy and responsible polity, not authoritarian groupthink. Indeed, political violence is often the most effective and most responsible method to prevent normalization of abhorrent ideas.

  15. #15
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Well well, what have we here? This is a clever and hilarious resolution Trump's found to the impossible situation he's been placed in by the courts indeed. Judging from the left's reactions, he should follow through, and wait - I suspect it won't take even two weeks for Pelosi, Harris, Alyssa Milano and the rest of Hollywood to start making speeches and movies about the necessity of a 100 ft tall wall with machine gun towers and 30 ft wide, 20 ft deep moats with perpetually hungry alligators.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    LA, San Francisco, New York, it's a good bet these are the places these illegal immigrants want to get to anyway.

    Disgracefully our federal courts are blocking the President from faithfully enforcing the laws Congress have passed.
    Quite right. It's been ruled that we can't send the migrants back to Mexico to await processing and the left loses its mind when they're kept in detention facilities, but they have to be kept somewhere. And what's the most logical place next to a detention center? Well, what about these sanctuary cities that are so welcoming of illegal immigrants that they're willing to defy the law to keep them, and where they'll surely be safe from those gosh-darned evil racist shotgun-toting hicks in 'MAGA country'?

    Oh wait! Actually the 9th Circuit just issued a very un-9th-Circuity injunction allowing Trump's administration to hold these illegals in Mexico until their cases have been heard. How quaint. I'm sure that had nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that the 9th Circuit is based in San Francisco.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Of course they don't imagine that one day liberals might take the government back and look for revenge if laws specifically targeting citizens for punishment for wounding the president's fragile ego are okay.
    'Punishment'? Whatever do you mean? I thought diversity was our strength and we're racists if we turn migrants away, in fact we should be honored to welcome them with open arms. Why are these sanctuary cities and leftist politicians, judges and celebrities suddenly rejecting what they claim to have wanted all along, what they've been arguing is an unambiguous good?

    But seriously, it's incredibly telling that as soon as Bad Orange Man offers the left an opportunity to put their money where their mouth is and take these illegal immigrants into their own neighborhoods, they drop the 'diversity is a strength', 'no human is illegal' and 'immigrants welcome' canned lines in favor of characterizing it as 'punishment' and 'retribution' and even 'inhuman'. So very, very telling.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    What's ICE going to do? Go right back into those cities and catch those immigrants again without the support of local LEOs? Does Trump know what the definition of a shield city is?
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  17. #17
    irontaino's Avatar Deadass B
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Imagine thinking people, regardless of immigration status, are inanimate objects you could move around for your petty little games.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Next I think we should make it so only people who voted for a president who wants to go to war are eligible for the draft. Is that how this works?
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Next I think we should make it so only people who voted for a president who wants to go to war are eligible for the draft. Is that how this works?
    Well, last I checked, your ability to be sent to war was what got the voting age lowered.
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  20. #20
    Miles
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    Default Re: Trump, immigrants and sanctuary cities suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Imagine thinking people, regardless of immigration status, are inanimate objects you could move around for your petty little games.
    I've played Total War games. I'm comfortable imagining thinking people as inanimate objects that I can move for my petty little games.

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