British Euro elections thread

[Infidel144]

I'm not going to take anything from the Guardian or Daily Mail, little better than Remainer rags both (the Guardian can't even manage a sustainable level of circulation it's so pointless) very seriously.

Looks like you may be correct in your take. It seems these quotes were taken way out of context:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz0FPS-aImk

[NorseThing]

Local elections: Brexit 'dissatisfaction hitting Conservative vote'

Tory MP Graham Brady has said "dissatisfaction" over Brexit is hitting the party's vote, with voters on doorsteps having told him "for heaven's sake, get on with it".
Asked whether Theresa May's name has come up much in canvassing, Mr Brady - chairman of the backbench 1922 Committee - said "it does from time to time, but it's more an overwhelming frustration" that Brexit is yet to happen.
He added he suspects there may be more spoiled ballot papers than usual.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...servative-vote


So is it usual in UK elections to have spoiled ballots to express dissatisfaction on government? Just a curious question from an Americn that want his vote to always be counted.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...servative-vote


So is it usual in UK elections to have spoiled ballots to express dissatisfaction on government? Just a curious question from an Americn that want his vote to always be counted.

There is a fine tradition of it at the local level , however it depends on the scale, i've seen it reported in this mornings papers that around 30,000 ballots were spoiled, across all councils that were having elections. Which is piddly and not enough to have any real impact. However an interesting point is that while GE ballots don't tend to be spoiled in large numbers as they are rendered invalid (and thus its pointless, FPTP excels when the electoral pool is small, thus the fewer who vote the more stable it is), but at local level a spoiled ballot can still be counted towards a party ironically! Different local councils have different counting rules, but just because you think you 'spoiled' your ballot, doesn't mean its actually read as a spoiled ballot. For instance if you draw 'BREXIT NOW' with an arrow pointing semi-towards a candidate, that can be taken as a valid vote for the candidate (thus ignoring the message). It indeed has been enough to gain Councillors a seat or not as seen here-

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8898321.html

So essentially if you've spoiled your ballot, unless you've done it really well and made sure it cannot possibly be interpreted as a vote for a party (and it can be rather creatively interpreted), it can backfire on you massively and is kinda a stupid thing to do, as the political statement of spoiling a ballot just isn't a thing, it can and will often be used in a way that subverts its message of 'i hate everyone here'. Its better to not turn up.... the ironic thing being that is exactly what the UK political structure is designed to accommodate- if you have dissenting views than those offered, shut up and sit down .

[Aexodus]

https://twitter.com/change_britain/s...930148357?s=21

Well this video was interesting. Chuka Umunna and Anna Soubry stating that there wouldn’t be a second referendum, and David Cameron saying Brexit would mean trading under WTO rules.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

https://twitter.com/change_britain/s...930148357?s=21

Well this video was interesting. Chuka Umunna and Anna Soubry stating that there wouldn’t be a second referendum, and David Cameron saying Brexit would mean trading under WTO rules.

I'm not surprised i actually remember Chuka and Soubry saying that, how things change . However you also have Farage's comment when it looked like he was going to lose (iirc the exact same numbers only reversed) that he would campaign for a second referendum. Also the issue being that was Cameron's vision, who then promptly buggered off, leaving everyone in the lurch. May legitimately can (as terrible as her plan is) do her own thing, likewise Labour and co are not bound by politicians from other parties statements, (or even their own when we add constituency vote and votes of conscience into the mix). This is partly why A) I think FPTP and Britain's 'constitution' is absolute bollocks where actual democracy is concerned and B) Holding a referendum was insane without changes to how domestic political structures work (It would just end up as now, narking people off when they realize their influence starts and finishes at that ballot box), as you've highlighted here, politicians can and do absolutely change their minds, 'accidentally mislead' (I would say lie, by Mr Speaker would slap me on the wrist for that ) and have the legitimacy to do so under this system by the myriad of differing levels that give them a great deal of autonomy from both public opinion and their constituents. The one time you get to call them on that, their further protected by FPTP and by GE's being about a ton of different issues that can all be emphasized or demphasized by any party with an ounce of ability to spin and tackle modern political communications (I.e. everyone but UKIP currently seemingly...).

Big question for everyone...so if the European elections are going to be taken as an opinion poll on brexit (as everyone seems to expect currently)... how do we count that in a practical way? Do we add up the remain and leave parties together, and for fairness split labour's vote in half? While sure unlike the locals this might actually given an indication of something brexit related, i'm interested the extent this can actually be seen as confirmation.

Likewise, anyone else now suspect as i do that May and Corbyn and/or Parliament will 'sort out' brexit prior to the European elections to avoid any further drubbings, and also in the hope that it would sweep the Brexit parties rug right out from underneath Farage before it even gets going? (And seriously, as mentioned in another thread- that is a Party only united by brexit, it has as Aexodus informed, Communists not just standing, but being high in their lists, alongside Farage, this is not a party that currently would get traction of brexit is no longer on the agenda... however taking brexit off the agenda of course is easier said than done considering how split its left the UK electorate).

[Aexodus]

Incidentally, in the region where Claire Fox is standing as Farage’s lead candidate, Tommy Robinson is standing (independent). So yeah that’ll be interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48081445

[mongrel]

Incidentally, in the region where Claire Fox is standing as Farage’s lead candidate, Tommy Robinson is standing (independent). So yeah that’ll be interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48081445

Robinson. He should be using his real name. There again Lord Buckethead doesn't. Robinson also has a court appearance due, if I recall correctly. If convicted, presumably game over.

That reminds me, what is it about anointing him and Carl Benjamin with milkshakes?


I note that the Tories are getting a complete battering with two conssequences as far as I can see. I am hearing talk that Brexit isn't going to happen , no deal being ruled out and a deal with Corbyn seems increasingly unlikely. More importantly there is no prospect of further EU extention if the UK continues to waste its and their time. May would have to capitulate , or offer a second referendum, presuming she isn't kicked out before October.

[QuintusSertorius]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...servative-vote


So is it usual in UK elections to have spoiled ballots to express dissatisfaction on government? Just a curious question from an Americn that want his vote to always be counted.

Spoiled ballots, sure. Spoiled ballots in that volume, no. Many people had no viable option if they didn't want to vote for any of the main Westminster parties.

Next Thursday is a different matter entirely, the groundswell is for the Brexit party, who have come out of nowhere to top the polls (usual caveats apply).

[mongrel]

Final results broken down by pro and anti.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Doesn't tell us what we don't already know. The UK is divided on Brexit, with the advantage to remainer parties. UKIP destroyed itself by focussing on Islam and defending rape jokes. Parties Promising to implement Brexit or destroy it did well.

[Elmetiacos]

Doesn't tell us what we don't already know. The UK is divided on Brexit, with the advantage to remainer parties. UKIP destroyed itself by focussing on Islam and defending rape jokes. Parties Promising to implement Brexit or destroy it did well.

...apart from ChangeUK who were always going to be a stillborn movement with no natural constituency. They are the most readily identifiable in most minds with the perceived elite, widening wealth gaps, unpopular stuff from the past like ID Cards and the Iraq War. Ultimately "Pretend it's still 2006" doesn't have much support among voters.

[QuintusSertorius]

Final results broken down by pro and anti.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Doesn't tell us what we don't already know. The UK is divided on Brexit, with the advantage to remainer parties. UKIP destroyed itself by focussing on Islam and defending rape jokes. Parties Promising to implement Brexit or destroy it did well.

Turnout was up in Remain areas, yet the Brexit party still won the most regions (as well as seats), coming second in Scotland. Hundreds of thousands of EU citizens not eligible to vote either in the 2016 referendum or a UK general election voted on Thursday. It doesn't take a genius to guess how they will have voted. If this pattern of voting were repeated in a general election, it would have been a Brexit Party landslide.

The Conservatives and Labour were elected on manifestos promising to respect the result. The Beeb's graph is an act of sophistry worthy of Pravda separating them out from the pro-Brexit vote.

But keep on spinning this as some sort of victory for Remain, you're in good company.

[95thrifleman]

Final results broken down by pro and anti.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Doesn't tell us what we don't already know. The UK is divided on Brexit, with the advantage to remainer parties. UKIP destroyed itself by focussing on Islam and defending rape jokes. Parties Promising to implement Brexit or destroy it did well.

That vote share grapth is remain propoganda. Add the Tory vote to the leave vote (which is the party policy) and the country is still more leave than remain.

[mongrel]

That vote share grapth is remain propoganda. Add the Tory vote to the leave vote (which is the party policy) and the country is still more leave than remain.

There is an entire thread dedicated to the reasons why the Tories can't deliver Brexit. Farage would like to, but he has never been elected to the Commons nor does his party have a prayer of getting a House majority.

Turnout was up in Remain areas, yet the Brexit party still won the most regions (as well as seats), coming second in Scotland. Hundreds of thousands of EU citizens not eligible to vote either in the 2016 referendum or a UK general election voted on Thursday. It doesn't take a genius to guess how they will have voted. If this pattern of voting were repeated in a general election, it would have been a Brexit Party landslide.

The Conservatives and Labour were elected on manifestos promising to respect the result. The Beeb's graph is an act of sophistry worthy of Pravda separating them out from the pro-Brexit vote.

But keep on spinning this as some sort of victory for Remain, you're in good company.

I can't imagine the Brexit party doing well in a general election for one main reason, they would have to publish a manifesto.If it is similar to previous Farage UKIP manisfestos, it won't go far.

[Elmetiacos]

All hail our glorious new supreme leader Nigel Farage, the Great Helmsman, Breaker of Chains, King of the Andals and of the First Men, voted into total victory by 11.7% of the electorate... "Bah!" as someone doing a Boris Johnson impression might say. But that isn't the point: it's looking like the Conservative Party is going to be panicked into voting in an extreme no-deal Brexiteer, which will result in defections, a No Confidence vote when he goes against the wishes of Parliament and a general election before the end of the year.

[caratacus]

There is an entire thread dedicated to the reasons why the Tories can't deliver Brexit. Farage would like to, but he has never been elected to the Commons nor does his party have a prayer of getting a House majority.

I can't imagine the Brexit party doing well in a general election for one main reason, they would have to publish a manifesto.If it is similar to previous Farage UKIP manisfestos, it won't go far.

They could publish sections of the telephone directory it woudn't matter. Who reads manifesto's before they vote? Everybody knows that parties never follow them if they get elected. It wasn't that long ago that a certain Conservative party promised to honour a referendum result and take us out of Europe, and we all know what has happened since.

What does today's Conservative or Labour parties represent? If you asked this question 40 years ago to people, they would certainly not reply with the same answers today. Political parties in the UK have become the muddled middle, a collection of professional pliticians who often share common opinions across party lines. In effect though, they have pathed the way to a party like the Brexit party, which unlike UKIP actively sought to build alliances between Left and Right and a diverse electoral base. I genuinely blieve this could be the breakthrough which changes British politics and our representitive democracy for good, and be the end of the two party state. Anybody that thinks this is just about leaving the EU, really doen't understand the electorate.

[mongrel]

They could publish sections of the telephone directory it woudn't matter. Who reads manifesto's before they vote? Everybody knows that parties never follow them if they get elected. It wasn't that long ago that a certain Conservative party promised to honour a referendum result and take us out of Europe, and we all know what has happened since.

What does today's Conservative or Labour parties represent? If you asked this question 40 years ago to people, they would certainly not reply with the same answers today. Political parties in the UK have become the muddled middle, a collection of professional pliticians who often share common opinions across party lines. In effect though, they have pathed the way to a party like the Brexit party, which unlike UKIP actively sought to build alliances between Left and Right and a diverse electoral base. I genuinely blieve this could be the breakthrough which changes British politics and our representitive democracy for good, and be the end of the two party state. Anybody that thinks this is just about leaving the EU, really doen't understand the electorate.

I 'd beleive that the Brexit Party has the UK's interests at heart only if:

- It published a manifesto
- The leader wasn't so reliant on one man for his lavish lifestyle
- the party was not endorsed by the likes of George Galloway and Steve Bannon.

[Elmetiacos]

I 'd beleive that the Brexit Party has the UK's interests at heart only if:

- It published a manifesto
- The leader wasn't so reliant on one man for his lavish lifestyle
- the party was not endorsed by the likes of George Galloway and Steve Bannon.

That would be part of the problem with any attempt to form a government: clearly Farage himself and Aaron Banks are neoliberal turbo-capitalists dressing up as the populist Right, but they've also brought along quite a few Bennite lefties and Old Tanky Communists for the ride... what the Hell could they all agree on as a programme? Would they immediately split and bring themselves down, or is the idea to leave with no deal and then do a Cameron and leave the next lot to clear up the mess they'd leave?

[Aexodus]

Claire Fox is actually a libertarian not a tankie for what it’s worth

[mongrel]

Claire Fox is actually a libertarian not a tankie for what it’s worth

She was a trot for over two decades until the Revolutionary Communist Party went into reverse mode. She also suggested that the Bosnian genocide was faked. Not an ideal person to respresent the UK.

That would be part of the problem with any attempt to form a government: clearly Farage himself and Aaron Banks are neoliberal turbo-capitalists dressing up as the populist Right, but they've also brought along quite a few Bennite lefties and Old Tanky Communists for the ride... what the Hell could they all agree on as a programme? Would they immediately split and bring themselves down, or is the idea to leave with no deal and then do a Cameron and leave the next lot to clear up the mess they'd leave?

If another PM goes populist and then pulls a Cameron, sales of red flags would escalate, I'm sure.

Go Boy!

I must thank Sargon, Hitler dog guy and Tommy Robinson for their part in the total annihilation of UKIP and their flirtation with white supremacism.

Real Life 3 - Keyboard Warriors 0

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Aexodus]

I must thank Sargon, Hitler dog guy and Tommy Robinson for their part in the total annihilation of UKIP and their flirtation with white supremacism.

None of them are white supremacists.