F-35 Goes Missing: Possible Global Ramifications For F-35 Program

[Exarch]

Japan’s military has reportedly found what appears to be debris from the F-35A fighter jet that disappeared from radar with one pilot on board during a training mission over the Pacific Ocean on Tuesday evening.
The Japanese Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) says it has found what could be debris from the F-35A plane that lost radar contact with ground control at Misawa Air Base during a routine training mission off the coast of Aomori Prefecture on Tuesday, broadcaster NHK reports. Coast Guard and Self-Defense Forces have been searching for the plane since it vanished. The fighter jet was flying with three others of the same make about 135km off the coast.

Source: https://www.rt.com/news/456063-japan-f35-debris-found/

Hopefully they will find the pilot alive and well but the fact remains that US made planes are falling out of the sky. This will have global consequences, especially with the US grappling with Turkey over F-35 parts and other nations worried about the increasing costs to the world's most expensive fighter jet program which will be no match for Russian equivalents and Chinese drones.

[conon394]

Planes crash... Pilots make errors. Say on the Ethiopian 737 max the pilots seem to have tunnel visioned the reaction to the auto pilot software and never slowed from take off speed which would have given them a lot more time to deal with their issue.

The cost for the F-35 seems to have stabilized.

I don't like it I think it was Swiss army mistake but it is for example the only useful plane for all small carriers us friends to buy in the B version as an upgrade to the harrier (and it is that an upgrade)

fighter jet program which will be no match for Russian equivalents and Chinese drones.

Proven how? I have little faith in drone warfare in any contested peer war - unless you come with a lot more than anyone is deploying and expect massive attrition.

[Exarch]

Planes crash... Pilots make errors. Say on the Ethiopian 737 max the pilots seem to have tunnel visioned the reaction to the auto pilot software and never slowed from take off speed which would have given them a lot more time to deal with their issue.

i don't think they would just allow any rookie pilot fly the state of the art stealth fighter jet, but it does seem like the US aviation industry has become corrupted, esp. with evident regulatory capture of the FAA by companies like Boeing.

The cost for the F-35 seems to have stabilized.

to nil, if the plane can't fly, or worse, is equipped similarly to the 737 MAX.

I don't like it I think it was Swiss army mistake but it is for example the only useful plane for all small carriers us friends to buy in the B version as an upgrade to the harrier (and it is that an upgrade)

it is an inferior fighter and the russians would be laughing as they won't need to bother shoting the F-35s out of the sky, as they'll happily race each other to the bottom on their own anyhow.

Proven how? I have little faith in drone warfare in any contested peer war - unless you come with a lot more than anyone is deploying and expect massive attrition.

Chinese plans appears to use swarms of stealth drones to overwhelm enemies.
https://warisboring.com/china-s-coming-drone-swarm/

That is some Warhammer 40K right there.

[conon394]

i don't think they would just allow any rookie pilot fly the state of the art stealth fighter jet, but it does seem like the US aviation industry has become corrupted, esp. with evident regulatory capture of the FAA by companies like Boeing.

Saying it does not make a thing man. Any Japanese pilot is effectively a rookie on the F-35 as is more or less every new operator. That was point in showing the Ethiopian situation. That is how a few small new tech differences that the pilots were not familiar with looks like it put them into a tunnel vision flying and not doing things like slowing the plane out of take off speed.

it is an inferior fighter and the russians would be laughing as they won't need to bother shoting the F-35s out of the sky, as they'll happily race each other to the bottom on their own anyhow.

Inferior to what in what situation?

to nil, if the plane can't fly, or worse, is equipped similarly to the 737 MAX.

Whatever. Fighters crash in training all the time. Its kinda of a thing you know flying close to the envelope. You know Japan has crashed 10 f-15s doesn't stop them from been the current king of interception by record with no combat loss.Do you have public source for Chinese crashes?

Chinese plans appears to use swarms of stealth drones to overwhelm enemies.

Umm I like war is boring but what I see is a crap ton of speculation - no hard data no demonstrations and the same old problem of no particular evidence that anyone's drones will last more than a day in a peer conflict. VS the US or China or Russia or France...

[Exarch]

Saying it does not make a thing man. Any Japanese pilot is effectively a rookie on the F-35 as is more or less every new operator. That was point in showing the Ethiopian situation. That is how a few small new tech differences that the pilots were not familiar with looks like it put them into a tunnel vision flying and not doing things like slowing the plane out of take off speed.

When even superior huwhite american pilots are crashing the plane, you know it ain't just becuz the coloureds be inferior at flying:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKCN1M82H2

The F-35 is currently the world's most expensive flying coffin and a death trap at that, comparable to the soviet Soyuz 1.

But i'll grant that it does have some capabilities that some countries would like to have, namely Turkey which wants to reverse engineer the F-35 for its own indigeneous fighter programs and is blackmailing the US for it. Elsewise, the Russians will provide Turks with Sukhois and Russia gets its man in the NATO tent.

[swabian]

The F-35 is very maintenance heavy. It's a redundant demonstration of what US know-how can do. Militarily, the bird is uneconomical. But it's kinda pretty, i admit it. It's more like a piece of art, rather than a militarily necessary weapon.

[Odenat]

But i'll grant that it does have some capabilities that some countries would like to have, namely Turkey which wants to reverse engineer the F-35 for its own indigeneous fighter programs and is blackmailing the US for it. Elsewise, the Russians will provide Turks with Sukhois and Russia gets its man in the NATO tent.

You can't reverse engineer a modern warplane, this is not an Iphone. I don't understand where you get these ideas.

Plus, it is USA who is blackmailing Turkey by not giving the planes that Turkey already paid for! Turkey is an independent country who can buy whatever it wants. If we want to buy weapons from Russians, Chinese or even aliens, this is our decision. There is nothing in the NATO rules that says countries must not buy weapons from Russia. I wonder what will be US reaction if Turkey says to USA that USA must stop sending astronauts to space using Russian facilities and Russian rockets. (I know Russia already stopped giving that service to USA starting from this month, US astronauts will go to space using Elon Musk's Spacex. Still you get the idea.)

F-35 project is a mess. If Turkey does not buy 100 planes it was promised and if USA pays back 900 mn $ Turkey already paid for, the plane will become more expensive for USA.

Now, do you guys know that F-35 have 15 category-1 deficiency and more than 1.000 Category 2 deficiency!! Check this article ;

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...y-action-44412

[conon394]

When even superior huwhite american pilots are crashing the plane, you know it ain't just becuz the coloureds be inferior at flying:

Err what. Its a new plane and particularity one being produced under concurrence and a constant stream of updates. I sure both pilots were equally expert I am annoyed that you were suggusting racism.

https://thedefensepost.com/2018/07/0...rash-grounded/

Oh look Russian planes flown by Poland crash too and are grounded.

Look there are serious issues I think you can raise about the F-35. That concurrent production was a mistake, that its was likely a bad ideal to not make a separate VSTOL aircraft, that you can question if it really an effective replacement for the A-10, or that its BVR model flies in the face of decades of the US largely not trusting BVR for fear of friendly fire or shooting at something not your target. But a couple crashes one of which is so far univestigated are not a coment on the plane.

The F-35 is currently the world's most expensive flying coffin and a death trap at that, comparable to the soviet Soyuz 1.

Again unsupported by evidence and as noted clearly the f-15 is more dangerous to Japanese pilots

[LaMuerte]

There will be no global ramifications for the f-35 programme. As others have stated, fighter planes crash during training...a lot. For example : out of 160 F-16's bought by Belgium, 34 got lost in peacetime due to mechanical failures or pilot errors. The Netherlands bought slightly less f-16's, yet they managed to lose 36 in peacetime. Worldwide combat losses for the f-16 due to enemy fire: 5.

According to the author of Broken Wings: Post War R.A.F. accidents, 'More than 100 Lightning jets crashed out of 345 in service with Britain between 1959 and 1989.' Since the 1970's more than 170 Indian air force pilots died in Mig-21 accidents.

So the real question is not what are the ramifications for the f-35 programme. The real question should be this : With so few training losses involving the f-35, can we assume it is a better airframe?

[swabian]

Stealth technology advances and so does radar tech. Aircraft like the F-22 and the F-35 simply can't be a reasonable long-term investment in a waeapon that can supposedly act even as a stealthed interceptor.
Really functioning stealth technology is and probably for some time will be a separate and specialized branch of the air forces. Who needs a super-expensive multi-role stealthed vehicle if one can just as well devide the roles of aircraft. No?

[Common Soldier]

I recall the similar criticisms being leveled against the F14 when it was introduced, there were some early crashes of F14 that raised similar criticisms about it, yet the F14 proved to o be a fine plane.

I suspect new planes have teething problems that probably take time to work out. The new planes fly differently, and likely there is a learning curve for pilots on how to handle the plane, how to properly train the pilots, wnd how the o properly maintain them. Every plane has its quirks, and it takes time to learn what they are. After some initial publicized crashes of F14, you didn't hear more about them.

It is too soon to throw in the towel on the F35

[Exarch]

I recall the similar criticisms being leveled against the F14 when it was introduced, there were some early crashes of F14 that raised similar criticisms about it, yet the F14 proved to o be a fine plane.

I suspect new planes have teething problems that probably take time to work out. The new planes fly differently, and likely there is a learning curve for pilots on how to handle the plane, how to properly train the pilots, wnd how the o properly maintain them. Every plane has its quirks, and it takes time to learn what they are. After some initial publicized crashes of F14, you didn't hear more about them.

It is too soon to throw in the towel on the F35

Considering the competition against the F-35, it is overpriced and no longer serves the role to which it was invented.

Actually, it served its primary role of pork barreling for US lobby groups and defence firms very very well.

But going up against Russian Sukhois or Chinese drones which can be mass produced....you may as well blow up your own F-35 than have the Russians or Chinese do it for you.

[conon394]

Considering the competition against the F-35, it is overpriced and no longer serves the role to which it was invented.

Actually, it served its primary role of pork barreling for US lobby groups and defence firms very very well.

But going up against Russian Sukhois or Chinese drones which can be mass produced....you may as well blow up your own F-35 than have the Russians or Chinese do it for you.

Well maybe the F-35 can hide and just wait for the Russian plane to crash like at the Paris Air Show good one Russia we did see the pyrotechnic option coming.

Its debatable how many drones anyone can really produce. But notably nobody has used them in the face of a peer grade fight I not betting on them.

[Daruwind]

But going up against Russian Sukhois or Chinese drones which can be mass produced...

So how planes have Russia sold already? Or China with drones?

USA are only one selling expensive crap around...

[Exarch]

Well maybe the F-35 can hide and just wait for the Russian plane to crash like at the Paris Air Show good one Russia we did see the pyrotechnic option coming.

Its debatable how many drones anyone can really produce. But notably nobody has used them in the face of a peer grade fight I not betting on them.

By virtue of being AI, drones are the future, especially swarms of AI which are comparably cheaper and can withstand G-forces which the human body cannot.

Chinese drones are already there, and it's not just aircraft drones either; amphibious drones are already in production by China.

So how planes have Russia sold already? Or China with drones?

USA are only one selling expensive crap around...

You mean the captive market of NATO where the members are forced to buy and inherently subsidise inferior american arms and goods just to ensure the viability of the US mil-industrial complex.

So what happened when a member like the Turks wanted to buy russian S-400s eh? That's right, the americans got upset because they saw that the S-400 would kill any F-35s in flight; all the Turks have to do is perform a military exercise with both platforms and once the F-35 gets killed a million times over, you can kiss goodbye to american profits.

[Daruwind]

You mean the captive market of NATO where the members are forced to buy and inherently subsidise inferior american arms and goods just to ensure the viability of the US mil-industrial complex.

Sure sure, for inferior plane it has pretty good sales. Hundreds... Earning money and XP towards 6th generation plane. Not like Russia who is once again gonna build 4++++ generation based upon same original drake..

So what happened when a member like the Turks wanted to buy russian S-400s eh? That's right, the americans got upset because they saw that the S-400 would kill any F-35s in flight; all the Turks have to do is perform a military exercise with both platforms and once the F-35 gets killed a million times over, you can kiss goodbye to american profits.

Wasn´t S-400 in Syria? Haven´t noticed it preventing Izrael from attacks, or shooting down any plane...

[Exarch]

Sure sure, for inferior plane it has pretty good sales. Hundreds... Earning money and XP towards 6th generation plane. Not like Russia who is once again gonna build 4++++ generation based upon same original drake..

The Russian Pak-FA is 5th generation, and the F-22s haven't been ordered into any significant number.

Wasn´t S-400 in Syria? Haven´t noticed it preventing Izrael from attacks, or shooting down any plane...

You mean the Israelis cowardly hiding behind civilian commercial aircraft before launching their bombs?

No prizes for guessing the inevitable fallout of the S-400 launching any of its ordinance close to the civilian aircraft.

[Daruwind]

The Russian Pak-FA is 5th generation, and the F-22s haven't been ordered into any significant number.

Su-57 is prototype. If I´m not mistaken only one has newer engine. Nobody ordered any planes so far, China is thinking about it at best. (i know russia ordered 13 planes and i will take it back as soon as they are in service as russian military plnas are changing every year..) And it is 5th generation on the paper, at best it is 4,5 due to loooong development After Russia builts and sells 100+, come back...So far it is the same story as T-14. A few prototypes. A few newspaper headlines about the best tech in the world, then opt out for building latest T-72B3, T-80BVM, and T-90SM tanks because they are cheaper.

Yury Borisov stated that "Today, the Su-35 is one of the world's best fighters, so there is no reason for us to speed up work on mass production of the fifth-generation fighter."
https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3033426&3033426

F-22 200 build units,
F-35 350 build units, planned are 2000+
and around 2030 USA is planning to start with 6th generation plane. Let´s hope Russia will finish its engine for 4,5th Su-57 at least by this time

You mean the Israelis cowardly hiding behind civilian commercial aircraft before launching their bombs?

No prizes for guessing the inevitable fallout of the S-400 launching any of its ordinance close to the civilian aircraft.

Well better than last time Syria tried to use AA system from Russia, shooting down russian own plane Of course loss of life is always tragedy, but irony of the situation....russians killed by russian AA...

Anyway, describe situation whatever you want but truth is, Izrael is able to do what it wants and russian AA system are just watching or get destroyed at best.

Maybe it is due to politics, maybe syrian soldiers are unable to operate such weaponery with Azbuka signs but anyway it is not good PR...