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Thread: Meanwhile in Libya...

  1. #81

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post

    The run-in in question there is France's claim that Turkish ships harassed French frigate Courbet. This was seen as an absurd accusation by Turkey at the time as they pointed out Turkish ships supplied fuel to Courbet about half an hour before the claimed incident. Per France's request a classified NATO probe was opened. There are rumors (calling them "rumors" since while I've heard it from reputable journalists on TV I couldn't find satisfactory sources online so far to link to) that the report so far doesn't validate French claims and only a few NATO countries are backing French allegations. French decision to pull out of Operation Sea Guardian seems to corroborate those rumors.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Which NATO Countries can that be besides Greece? probably just Czech Republic and Bulgaria.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Which NATO Countries can that be besides Greece? probably just Czech Republic and Bulgaria.
    Hey, did Turkey figure out who blew up their Hawk missiles in Lybia?

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  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Hey, did Turkey figure out who blew up their Hawk missiles in Lybia?
    Are you referring to the recent LNA strike on the Al-Watiya air base?
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    Hey, did Turkey figure out who blew up their Hawk missiles in Lybia?
    Maybe UAE with some use of their Mirage Fleet with support from France - But these Hawk Batteries already replaced and are still a threat to the Russian MiGs&Co.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    A while ago we had people, here and in official circles, claiming that Turkey sent thousands of jihadists to Libya from Syria. A Pentagon report came out recently:

    Pentagon report: Turkey sent up to 3,800 fighters to Libya
    Despite widespread reports of the fighters’ extremist links, the report says the U.S. military found no evidence to suggest the mercenaries were affiliated with the Islamic State extremist group or al-Qaida. It says they were “very likely” motivated by generous financial packages rather than ideology or politics.
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #86
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Affiliated with al-Qaeda or ISIS. That doesn't mean they weren't Islamists or jihadists. The report simply states they have no links to Al-Qaeda or the Islamic State.

  7. #87
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    To be fair, these non-ISIS groups are in the end jihadists, either of the Salafist or Muslim Brotherhood stock. In my view, no major difference. They just do not employ the same brutal-video propaganda.

    I live by a simple code: If one side in a conflict raises an Islamist cause, support the other one.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  8. #88

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Affiliated with al-Qaeda or ISIS. That doesn't mean they weren't Islamists or jihadists. The report simply states they have no links to Al-Qaeda or the Islamic State.
    These are just the ones who took part of Gaddafis fall later some of them rest in Turkey and then go back to Libya or even took part in the ongoing Syrian Civil War, but before someone point with the finger especially Turkey, let me show you who else took part on the Party of 2011:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Probably some them are even was trained USA or even on another NATO Country before they even took part on a War. But as i pointed it out some of them even on their origin from Libya. So maybe they are just fighting for the Side they believe which is best for their Country no matter which Ideology that Side is even following.

    Turkey is just supporting a Side which has roots to this Clan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senussi

    I bet even Atatürk would today do the same or how thinking of this Mr.PointOfViewGun?
    PointOfViewGun
    Last edited by Nebaki; July 19, 2020 at 09:25 PM.

  9. #89
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    These are just the ones who took part of Gaddafis fall later some of them rest in Turkey and then go back to Libya or even took part in the ongoing Syrian Civil War, but before someone point with the finger especially Turkey, let me show you who else took part on the Party of 2011:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Probably some them are even was trained USA or even on another NATO Country before they even took part on a War. But as i pointed it out some of them even on their origin from Libya. So maybe they are just fighting for the Side they believe which is best for their Country no matter which Ideology that Side is even following.

    Turkey is just supporting a Side which has roots to this Clan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senussi

    I bet even Atatürk would today do the same or how thinking of this Mr.PointOfViewGun?
    PointOfViewGun
    ....none of this makes sense. Which of the factions in the wikipedia image you linked has Turkey now sent to Libya?

  10. #90
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    https://www.news18.com/news/world/eg...a-2725757.html

    Look like Egypt is one step closer to sending troops to Libya..
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  11. #91

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Are you referring to the recent LNA strike on the Al-Watiya air base?
    LNA? Are you selling turkish air defense capabilities so cheap as to accept that LNA air force, with some outdated Mig 21s could do this to one of their best air defense systems? Tsk tsk...

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  12. #92
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Honestly it was likely the UAE or Egypt who struck the base. Articles i've read describe the aircraft that struck the base as Mirage 2000s or in some cases Rafaels. LNA doesn't posses those aircraft if i am not mistaken.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Maybe UAE with some use of their Mirage Fleet with support from France - But these Hawk Batteries already replaced and are still a threat to the Russian MiGs&Co.
    It appears that they themselves are under threat from "unknown assailants". Your assumption about the UAE with support from France makes sense, but the fact that Turkey has so far been reluctant to show us the wreckage of the weapon(s) used (possibly SCALP EG, if we are talking about French technology) is rather suspicious, as it could be that France itself did it. Remember, a French ship was targeted a while ago by a turkish ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    To be fair, these non-ISIS groups are in the end jihadists, either of the Salafist or Muslim Brotherhood stock. In my view, no major difference. They just do not employ the same brutal-video propaganda.

    I live by a simple code: If one side in a conflict raises an Islamist cause, support the other one.
    I had considered you a Kemalist, when first I joined the discussions here.
    Last edited by Aexodus; August 01, 2020 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Merged

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  14. #94

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    LNA? Are you selling turkish air defense capabilities so cheap as to accept that LNA air force, with some outdated Mig 21s could do this to one of their best air defense systems? Tsk tsk...
    I'm not selling anything. I merely described it as LNA strike since it was made in support of them. So, who did it?
    The Armenian Issue

  15. #95

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I'm not selling anything. I merely described it as LNA strike since it was made in support of them. So, who did it?
    "selling cheap" or "selling short" means "underestimating" AFAIK. To answer your question, I believe it was France itself. And I believe that from the wreckage of the weapon used (possibly a scalp EG if the equipment was French), Turkey could very easily know the identity of the attacker. They are probably aware of the attacker's identity, but if the attacker is a country of the caliber of France, Turkey, acting like an actual bully, pretends she isn't aware of who did it.

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    "selling cheap" or "selling short" means "underestimating" AFAIK. To answer your question, I believe it was France itself. And I believe that from the wreckage of the weapon used (possibly a scalp EG if the equipment was French), Turkey could very easily know the identity of the attacker. They are probably aware of the attacker's identity, but if the attacker is a country of the caliber of France, Turkey, acting like an actual bully, pretends she isn't aware of who did it.
    Since the boasting came from UAE, a country that utilizes French Mirage fighters, it was likely coming from UAE, one of chief backers of France. It was declared as such already. France have been throwing childish tantrums against Turkey to the level of alienating itself from other NATO members. It's open support for Haftar and baseless accusations against Turkey that had NATO members side with Turkey put it at a very undesirable position. If it was indeed France that targeted the base in Libya then it would be very valuable for Turkey to use that publicly. Yet, if there was no clear evidence it was France that did it then it would be counterproductive to accuse France.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #97

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Since the boasting came from UAE, a country that utilizes French Mirage fighters, it was likely coming from UAE, one of chief backers of France. It was declared as such already. France have been throwing childish tantrums against Turkey to the level of alienating itself from other NATO members. It's open support for Haftar and baseless accusations against Turkey that had NATO members side with Turkey put it at a very undesirable position. If it was indeed France that targeted the base in Libya then it would be very valuable for Turkey to use that publicly. Yet, if there was no clear evidence it was France that did it then it would be counterproductive to accuse France.
    So, the great Turkey isn't going to do anything about the destruction of important military equipment by another country? Are you just going to let this fly?

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    So, the great Turkey isn't going to do anything about the destruction of important military equipment by another country? Are you just going to let this fly?
    Given that I do not know exactly what's being done, sure, sometimes its better to not respond in kind. Though since the airstrike was meant to weaken Turkish position on Libya and potentially force a withdrawal continuing to build up presence and aiding the UN-recognized government of Libya sounds like a productive response. Please do not confuse your pissing contest with actual politics.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #99

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    https://twitter.com/MLNA2020/status/1292693979901894656

    several #LNA airstrike were conducted between sdadda bridge and Sdadda castle, targeting a Turkish air Défense missile platform + radar + jamming tower.
    Resulting in the destruction of the targets.
    LNA is busting air defenses of a NATO country, and the second most powerful (at least in terms of numbers) at that? Oh, my...

    The Truth is Hate for those who hate the Truth.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Meanwhile in Libya...

    Quote Originally Posted by ioannis76 View Post
    https://twitter.com/MLNA2020/status/1292693979901894656
    LNA is busting air defenses of a NATO country, and the second most powerful (at least in terms of numbers) at that? Oh, my...
    According to who?
    The Armenian Issue

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