Turkey's Local Elections 2019

[Tureuki]

That's just a rumor so far, no proof.

[Odenat]

@Odenat
Kemal was NOT born in Selanik as you call it but in a small village 20 kms north from it , only 3kms frome where i live. So...do your homework and learn things better.
His fammily moved to Thesaloniki only when he was already 10 years old. Follow the star on the map. That village is today ruins but hundreds of Turks visit it every year.

Mustafa Kemal is born at Selanik at in Apostolou Pavlou Street. Greek's nationalistic media started to make this propaganda at 2007 saying he is not born at Selanik but at a village north. Stop feeding us the nationalistic propaganda.

Here is his house ; https://inthessaloniki.com/item/ataturk-museum/

Here is the wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C...(Thessaloniki)

Here is a Greek Macedonian page that is saying this is the house Mustafa Kemal is born http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Mu...iti_Kemal.html

So...do your homework and learn things better.

[Kyriakos]

^No one here gives af about Kemal. In fact it is a travesty that you even have a consulate; we only need an embassy in Turkey, no need for a first - let alone a second - consulate.
Also, even assuming he was magically born here and is tied to that house, history doesn't begin with your leader in 1920.

[Alastor]

Mustafa Kemal is born at Selanik at in Apostolou Pavlou Street. Greek's nationalistic media started to make this propaganda at 2007 saying he is not born at Selanik but at a village north. Stop feeding us the nationalistic propaganda.

That actually happened? What was the rationale behind it? I mean this is the first time I'm hearing about this, I always thought Kemal was born in Thessalonica. But I don't see the symbolic difference between Thessalonica or a small village near Thessalonica. Do you have any of these sources?

[Odenat]

That actually happened? What was the rationale behind it? I mean this is the first time I'm hearing about this, I always thought Kemal was born in Thessalonica. But I don't see the symbolic difference between Thessalonica or a small village near Thessalonica. Do you have any of these sources?

Unfortunately my sources is in Turkish, as you said, for us there is no symbolic difference between being born at Thessalonica center or a village north. But Greek municipality itself gave the house to Turkish state at 1935 when Mustafa Kemal is still alive. I'm pretty sure he would say "but that is not the house i was born" lol.

If i can translate my source; Greek Promo Thema newspaper wrote at 2012 that he was born at someplace called Sarıger village near "Lagadas". Then the name of this village is changed to "Golden Dawn" (in greek) which is as you can very well remember, the name of Greek nationalist party. Here is my turkish source about Greek nationalists trying to change his birthplace. http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/ye...dogdu-1087866/

All the Greek and Turkish sources from 1930s says that Mustafa Kemal was born at the house at Apostolou Povlou street. Anyway this thread is about Turkey's local elections, i just didn't want a false information to stay here unanswered.

[ioannis76]

Alastor, here is the information you seek, perhaps:
https://www.protothema.gr/greece/art...-thessalonikh/

Something seems to have been lost in translation, though.
First of all the village actually exists, and the name is Χρυσαυγή, (which is actually a female name in Greek, I once knew a girl of that name and used to make fun of her for her name). The name of the political party is Χρυσή Αυγή. Yes, they both mean the same and translate as the same. However one must remember that the political party was formed long after the village, so nobody in Greece named the village (in fact there are two villages of that name, one in Thessaloniki and one in Kozani) or the people after Golden Dawn.
That being said, I would agree with Kyriakos, Turkey has no bisuness having a consulate, let alone one in Komotini.

[PointOfViewGun]

That being said, I would agree with Kyriakos, Turkey has no bisuness having a consulate, let alone one in Komotini.

Why?

[AnthoniusII]

That actually happened? What was the rationale behind it? I mean this is the first time I'm hearing about this, I always thought Kemal was born in Thessalonica. But I don't see the symbolic difference between Thessalonica or a small village near Thessalonica. Do you have any of these sources?

Yes between the villages Hrisaygi and today village Polidendri , 20 miles north of Thessaloniki was the turkish village that abandoned durring the population exchanges in early 1930s.
That was the birth place of Kemal. But his parents moved to Thessaloniki and the house they managed to buy is the modern Turkish consulate of Thessaloniki.

Unfortunately my sources is in Turkish, as you said, for us there is no symbolic difference between being born at Thessalonica center or a village north. But Greek municipality itself gave the house to Turkish state at 1935 when Mustafa Kemal is still alive. I'm pretty sure he would say "but that is not the house i was born" lol.

If i can translate my source; Greek Promo Thema newspaper wrote at 2012 that he was born at someplace called Sarıger village near "Lagadas". Then the name of this village is changed to "Golden Dawn" (in greek) which is as you can very well remember, the name of Greek nationalist party. Here is my turkish source about Greek nationalists trying to change his birthplace. http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/ye...dogdu-1087866/

All the Greek and Turkish sources from 1930s says that Mustafa Kemal was born at the house at Apostolou Povlou street. Anyway this thread is about Turkey's local elections, i just didn't want a false information to stay here unanswered.

Alastor, here is the information you seek, perhaps:
https://www.protothema.gr/greece/art...-thessalonikh/

Something seems to have been lost in translation, though.
First of all the village actually exists, and the name is Χρυσαυγή, (which is actually a female name in Greek, I once knew a girl of that name and used to make fun of her for her name). The name of the political party is Χρυσή Αυγή. Yes, they both mean the same and translate as the same. However one must remember that the political party was formed long after the village, so nobody in Greece named the village (in fact there are two villages of that name, one in Thessaloniki and one in Kozani) or the people after Golden Dawn.
That being said, I would agree with Kyriakos, Turkey has no bisuness having a consulate, let alone one in Komotini.

The turkish village ruins are a mile up to the mountain after the village Hrisavgi...I live in Laghadas and i know the history of this region well.

[Alastor]

I thank @Odenat and @ioannis76 for the sources they provided. I read them both and indeed it appears that a number of things were lost in translation. I felt that the response of Dr. Saray was a bit knee-jerk, though probably influenced by the connection the Turkish source alleges with Golden Dawn. Arguably though the Greek source is not entirely blameless either, it did jokingly allude to such a connection, that's not how a serious newspaper should deal with sensitive topics. Well, the symbolic difference is still zero, in fact since nobody disputes Kemal lived in that house in Thessalonica as a child, it's still Kemal's house. And this historical detail, while very interesting, is academic.

Anyway, this is indeed not particularly relevant to the topic so let's stop here.

[AnthoniusII]

Actually is not entirely irelevant.. The accusation for Imamoglou as "Greek" trigered the hiden but still standing lack of national identity confusion Turkish society has.
I explain... As Turks in Ottoman Empire in the Balkans were ALL muslims and as Rum all christians. No matter the ethnic origin of each individual."
Remember 4 years ago when Erdogan became furius when a TV reporter asked him about the claims that he was Greek in origin.. His answer was that his grandfather told him that "its not the blood that makes a man's identity but the religion he follows".
Neoturks were the 1st that consived this idea naming all muslims Turks and the rest as anything else.
So this answer made the identity confusioneven greater in Turkish society when Erdogan "forgot" the answer he gave about his origin and accused Imamoglou as Greek.
In this sense Kemal , Erdogan and Imamoglou are all Greeks since they have not Mongolic /Altaic characteristics like the 80% of the modern Turkey's population.
In this local elections campaign , seams that Erdogan does not use mirors in his palace and forgets the answers he give from time to time.
The Greek origin of the vast majority of Modern Turks explain why hundreds of thousands visit St George Koudoynas Monastery asking health and good fortune like Christians do.
It also explains why Turks are THE ONLY MUSLIM "nation" that defined Prophet Muhamad's Achtiname and converted Christian Churches and Monasteries to Mosques or even worst to stables , something the The Prophet Muhamad forbiten under the penalty of ever lasting CURSE! The Greek blood of those neo muslims forced them to CONTINUE to use the same churches they used as Christians , now as Muslims despite that this fact made ALL TURKS CURSED in the eyes of The Prophet.

[Tureuki]

Oh boy here we go again, even a simple election thread turned into a Turks are Greeks rant.

[Odenat]

Actually is not entirely irelevant.. The accusation for Imamoglou as "Greek" trigered the hiden but still standing lack of national identity confusion Turkish society has.
I explain... As Turks in Ottoman Empire in the Balkans were ALL muslims and as Rum all christians. No matter the ethnic origin of each individual."

And i stopped reading you just at this point because this is false. Not all Turks in Ottoman Empire in the balkans were muslims, for example Gagauz Turks were and still are Orthodox Christians. You are wrong again, please stop writing about this subject. This thread is about Turkish local election, if you want to discuss another thing, open a new thread.

[ioannis76]

Why?

Because there is no need for one. The embassy is quite enough.

[Lifthrasir]

Please stay on topic Gents. If you want to discuss about history, use the Vestigia Vetustatis forum.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because there is no need for one. The embassy is quite enough.

Why is it enough?

[ioannis76]

Why is it enough?

Because there is no need for anything more than the Embassy.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because there is no need for anything more than the Embassy.

Based on what knowledge are you saying that there is no need for anything more than an embassy?

[ioannis76]

Based on what knowledge are you saying that there is no need for anything more than an embassy?

Based on what knowledge are you saying that there is need for more than just the embassy?

[PointOfViewGun]

Based on what knowledge are you saying that there is need for more than just the embassy?

I didn't say that there is a need for it. You said that there is no need for it. So, I'm asking for you to substantiate that. By the fact that you're trying to ask that to me shows me that you have no argument.

[AnthoniusII]

True....Since Pomacks are muslims but not turks in origin there is no need for a consulate in Komotini. Since there are not Turks in Thessaloniki the house of Kemal should pass to the municipality of the city and become a museum like Agia Sophia is.
Is there a Greek consulate in Trapzond or in Sinop ?