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Thread: It just went down in New Zealand

  1. #101
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Yes but we are not really relevant, nor we are following the rest of Europe trend, in recent years, on several areas i might add. At least for now. ( suppose we have to thank the Communist party to be a lid for that kind of sentiment here in Portugal ).

    Were you actually see a rise of the far right sentiment in countries Like Germany or Finland, or Even Sweden, etc, countries that weren't affected by the euro crisis, in a social-economic way. Not like the PIIGS countries.
    I dont think this is as simply as blaming it on the economy. There were lots of events happening all at once.


    Of course. I listed some. Make it so it all comes down to economic recessions, is shortsighted.

    acci_dent

    Again that is no argument. Nor does that tell the whole story. It is just a meme.
    Mediteranean Sea was always a bridge to diferent cultures...That gave its people a sence of tollerance with few exeptions. Also a poor european that strugles to feed his fammily and had relatives imigrants to USA, Australia etc, understands better another humn being that also strugles to find a shelter to his kids and give them a more bright future.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

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  2. #102
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Does the far right terroristic massacre in Christchurch have a link to islamophobia and white genocide/replacement theories? Clearly yes and thats the reason why hate speech laws should strictly executed.

    My condolences to the innocent victims in Christchurch.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; March 15, 2019 at 12:17 PM. Reason: condolences added
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  3. #103

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    What really shocks me is how many far/alt-righters were watching his live feed and cheering him on.

  4. #104

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    acci_dent

    Again that is no argument. Nor does that tell the whole story. It is just a meme.
    i tried to grab some paragraphs out of this but i would have just ended up using all of it:
    https://monthlyreview.org/2017/02/01...n-immigration/
    everybody read this ^^^ it's pretty short

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    son of a was talking third-worldism before the third-world concept had been invented...


  5. #105

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Do I have to recount to you the history of migration in the Balkans to you? You are being intentionally obtuse.
    You could actually try to explain how immigration plays into what you suggest. When I asked about it specifically you talked about Ottomans and their oppression...
    The Armenian Issue

  6. #106

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Hello, I live in Christchurch, New Zealand just a couple blocks down from the main mosque shooting and have family near the secondary mosque shooting as well. I see all news coverage including international networks and the livestream.
    I never expected our first hate crime to be so big. I know this is nothing uncommon in larger countries. The average New Zealander is pretty casual when it comes to politics and social issues. Most immigrants come here to flee wartorn countries or over urbanized congestion in other countries. Main ethnic groups are European 65% Maori/ Pacific Island 10% Asian 12%. We are primarily big on European/Asian immigration compared to African/Middle eastern being given less than 2% each. New Zealand media show no footage of gunman but international media did. I hope gun control is tighter after this. I understand this is really significant for us but we are just a small player internationally so the issues go far out to the rest of the world. It feels weird being the one receiving condolences instead of giving them to other countries.

  7. #107

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Is it? What were the other ones?
    Suzano massacre


  8. #108
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by pak88 View Post
    Hello, I live in Christchurch, New Zealand just a couple blocks down from the main mosque shooting and have family near the secondary mosque shooting as well. I see all news coverage including international networks and the livestream.
    I never expected our first hate crime to be so big. I know this is nothing uncommon in larger countries. The average New Zealander is pretty casual when it comes to politics and social issues. Most immigrants come here to flee wartorn countries or over urbanized congestion in other countries. Main ethnic groups are European 65% Maori/ Pacific Island 10% Asian 12%. We are primarily big on European/Asian immigration compared to African/Middle eastern being given less than 2% each. New Zealand media show no footage of gunman but international media did. I hope gun control is tighter after this. I understand this is really significant for us but we are just a small player internationally so the issues go far out to the rest of the world. It feels weird being the one receiving condolences instead of giving them to other countries.
    My condolences to your community. First the earthquake and now this - Christchurch truly has been through more than its fair share of internationally famous tragedies, for somewhere which by rights should be probably the quietest and most contented city on planet earth, being in a safe and out-of-the-way area, within a safe and out-of-the-way country, in a safe and out-of-the-way region of the world. Unfortunately nowhere is safe from this kind of mindset, it spreads across oceans and continents via the internet.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  9. #109

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Some truly odd aspects to this atrocity.

    Apparently the attacker traveled widely, including to Pakistan where he praised its people and the country in general. Even more interestingly he did this via a visitor's post on the Facebook page of the hotel he was staying in. This hotel is supposedly a Nizari Ismaili owned business.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Last edited by The Gurkhan; March 15, 2019 at 01:55 PM.

  10. #110
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    You could actually try to explain how immigration plays into what you suggest. When I asked about it specifically you talked about Ottomans and their oppression...
    Book. Read.

    Can you walk me through this reasoning? Like an example or something.
    I stand for straight Americanism unconditioned and unqualified, and I stand against every form of hyphenated Americanism. I do not speak of the hyphen when it is employed as a mere convenience, although personally, I like to avoid its use even in such manner. I speak and condemn its use whenever it represents an effort to form political parties along racial lines or to bring pressure to bear on parties and politicians, not for American purposes, but in the interest of some group of voters of a certain national origin, or of the country from which they or their fathers came.

    Americanism is not a matter of creed, birthplace or national descent, but of the soul and of the spirit. If the American has the right stuff in him, I care not a snap of my fingers whether he is Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Protestant. I care not a snap of my fingers whether his ancestors came over in the Mayflower, or whether he was born, or his parents were born, in Germany, Ireland, France, England, Scandinavia, Russia or Italy or any other country. All I ask of the immigrant is that he shall be physically and intellectually fit, of sound character, and eager in good faith to become an American citizen. If the immigrant is of the right kind I am for him, and if the native American* is of the wrong kind I am against him….

    ….Now for our own citizens. We represent many different race strains. Our ancestors came from many different Old World nationalities. It will spell ruin to this nation if these nationalities remain separated from one another instead of being assimilated to the new and larger American life.

    The children and our children’s children of all of us have to live here in this land together. Our children’s children will intermarry, one another, your children’s children, friends, and mine. Even if they wished, they could not remain citizens of foreign countries….The effort to keep our citizenship divided against itself by the use of the hyphen and along the lines of national origin is certain to breed a spirit of bitterness and prejudice and dislike between great bodies of our citizens.


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    The USA was on the verge of entering WW1. The message was clearly aimed at German-Americans - you could not be a German and an American. German songs, German beer, German socialism and the German language had to go. And it went. If you asked some one today what it meant to be a German-American he would look at you like had two heads. I would know because I am ethnically German (I will deny to my dying day any Irish descent ) and I wouldn't have the faintest idea what to say.

    By the time of WW2 German-American wasn't much of a thing. Japanese-American was though. And we know what happened to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
    Am I reading this right? . . .
    No you aren't reading this right.

    Back on topic, it looks like this guy was meta gaming it pretty hard.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; March 15, 2019 at 02:47 PM.
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  11. #111

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Book. Read.
    Intellectual and coherent argument. Make...
    The Armenian Issue

  12. #112
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Intellectual and coherent argument. Make...
    Didn’t read the book did you? Explaining the basic facts of world history is something I do for My chilrden.

    I’ve said quite a bit on this thread, you should try to rebut it instead of making useless posts.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 16, 2019 at 04:18 AM. Reason: off topic part removed
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  13. #113
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    What really shocks me is how many far/alt-righters were watching his live feed and cheering him on.
    Does it shock you, though? Anyone who has been on /pol/, /b/, or really anywhere on the chans and the right wing parts of Reddit etc, knows that there are thousands if not tens of thousands of edgelords who talk about this kind of thing on a daily basis. It's no surprise to me that one of them has finally acted on the incitements from what amounts to white nationalist terror cyber-cells which these websites have become. I remember back in the '00s, 4chan and its like were racist, but racist because they were just intrinsically opposed to all societal norms and existed in a constant state of trying to outdo each other in the extremism of their language and attitudes.

    Now, it seems that anti-Muslim sentiment (together with anti-black, anti-semitic and anti-women sentiments) have ceased to be for shock value, and are now a genuine ideology laced with incitements to violence. It's got to the point where even some of their own members are desperately trying to pull them back from the brink, realising they've gone too far. But it's too late for that now. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw dozens more of these kind of attacks in the coming years.
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; March 15, 2019 at 05:07 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  14. #114
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodia_Metelli View Post
    Does the far right terroristic massacre in Christchurch have a link to islamophobia and white genocide/replacement theories? Clearly yes and thats the reason why hate speech laws should strictly executed
    Yes and yes.
    Renaud Camus, the author of the Great Replacement conspiracy/theory was fined in Paris (2014) for referring to some Muslims as "hooligans" and that they were "the armed wing of a group intent on conquering French territory".
    ---
    In New Zealand,the prime -minister said, gun laws will change, says Ardern.
    Ardern said the alleged shooter was found to have used five guns that he appeared to legally own under a “category A” licence obtained in November 2017. He appeared to have begun buying guns the following month, she said.
    And more...
    Ardern urges Trump to show sympathy and love for all Muslims .
    New Zealand’s prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, says she told the US president, Donald Trump, to show all Muslim communities “sympathy and love” when he asked what he could do in the aftermath of the Christchurch mosque attacks.
    Bravo, Ardern.
    In fact,
    Speaking to a pool reporter, Trump had insisted he does not see white nationalism as a rising problem, he said:I don’t really, I think it’s a small group of people
    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Sigh. clearly a great supporter of Trump and inspired by him.
    "Sigh" he says...
    ----
    Precisely. A supporter of Trump's racist ideology, inspired by him, praised the racist President.
    I said, - "when a President of the US inspires terrorists , he should resign"
    The white supremacist terrorist wrote,
    Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump? As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure.
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 15, 2019 at 05:06 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  15. #115
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    It seems as though this murderous scum, who appeals to crusade mentality (in my view a form of Jihad), Fascism and 4chan meme culture was playing to a very specific on line audience, given he live streamed the event.

    Murderous violence is not an intrinsic part of immigration, as my country and New Zealand have repeatedly proved. The onus is on anyone making the claim to prove it so.

    Given the strong connection to internet culture, and the self declared the agenda of provoking gun related violence in the US, its clear this is global right wing terrorism at work. I hope we use the same tools we used on Al Qaida and ISIS on this network of terrorist scum. I remain against stuff like torture and extreme rendition, but if we catch the cheerleaders and enablers I say we freeze their assets, ban their travel etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    ...

    I’ve said quite a bit on this thread, ...
    The bit where you rhetorically asked "was he wrong" reads like flaming. The guy shot women in the back as part of a self proclaimed "crusade", not sure whats unclear about that being wrong. Given its a hot topic, and no time to be cryptic or fly close to the wind on ToS, would you care to expand on the question, maybe supply an answer? Getting all shirty and saying "maybe read more" is a cop out, lets clear this up because its a hot topic and no time for arcane point making.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  16. #116
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Originally Posted by Diocle
    The only thing I found in some way interesting in his frantic message, was the quote of Odo of Châtillon, a gigantic and very complex character at the dawn of European medieval civilization.
    Even characters like him though had some sence of honor.
    It's not difficult to recognize that the mediocre manifesto is either overtly or covertly praised by the white supremacist brigade.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  17. #117

    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    People who are against migration have 0 knowledge and understanding of history.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Yes and yes.
    Renaud Camus, the author of the Great Replacement conspiracy/theory was fined in Paris (2014) for referring to some Muslims as "hooligans" and that they were "the armed wing of a group intent on conquering French territory".
    ---
    In New Zealand,the prime -minister said, gun laws will change, says Ardern.


    And more...

    Bravo, Ardern.
    In fact,

    ----


    "Sigh" he says...
    ----
    Precisely. A supporter of Trump's racist ideology, inspired by him, praised the racist President.
    I said, - "when a President of the US inspires terrorists , he should resign"
    The white supremacist terrorist wrote,
    How did he endorse him?And yes it's it is a small group of people.Remember how it is always "not all muslims" when terrorist attacks happen?Funny how the narrative changes suddenly it's all white nationalism supporters.
    Elder Scrolls Online :Messing up the Lore since 2007...

    Well overhand or underhand: 3:50 Onwards...

  19. #119
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    I think trying to place an accelerationist eco fascist on a left right scale is a mistake. I also think politicising this beyond ‘fascism is bad’ is a mistake.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  20. #120
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: It just went down in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It seems as though this murderous scum, who appeals to crusade mentality (in my view a form of Jihad), Fascism and 4chan meme culture was playing to a very specific on line audience, given he live streamed the event.
    His manifesto and subsequent actions were directed towards a multifaceted global audience. The media, alt-right trolls, Far Right white supremacists, and anyone who spends a lot of time on the internet. The streaming wasn't so much about the people on 8chan, as all the other people who would see the footage once it got out, which must now be millions of people (it's doing the rounds in the Muslim world especially, where people are very desensitised to these types of videos and some media channels are running this one freely).

    Given the strong connection to internet culture, and the self declared the agenda of provoking gun related violence in the US, its clear this is global right wing terrorism at work.
    Quite so. Or to be more precise, terrorism motivated and incited by a decentralised global alt-right agenda, wherein although not everybody actively supports violence against innocent people, everyone broadly agrees that there is a problem. The quotes on far right fora follow a clear pattern - a continuum ranging from:

    1. A few people, many of whom are probably not regulars, who condemn and reject the attack.
    2. A fair quantity of people who say something like 'the problem is real, but violence is not the solution'.
    3. A smaller quantity of people who say 'violence is absolutely justified, just not against innocent people' or invoke conspiracy theories about this particular attack being a 'false flag' but the general motivtation being justified.
    4. A fair quantity of people who openly praise the attack.

    All categories except no.1 themselves state an allegiance to an ideology wherein non-white immigrants are a civilisational threat to the West which must be somehow addressed through some unspecified or specified form of action.

    I hope we use the same tools we used on Al Qaida and ISIS on this network of terrorist scum. I remain against stuff like torture and extreme rendition, but if we catch the cheerleaders and enablers I say we freeze their assets, ban their travel etc.
    If you're referring to the individuals who some hypothesise this guy was in contact with, I agree. But I fear there isn't really much of a 'network' to target here - I imagine this guy did most of the preparation and research himself. He was exceedingly well kitted out, right down to the graffiti on his guns, but that's not unusual for this type of mass shooter - he had probably been planning this for months and seems to have had some decent financial assets.

    EDIT: Apparently his dayjob was as a personal trainer but he then made a lot of money through investing in cryptocurrencies. Honestly this guy is like a walking talking embodiment of a certain strand of the Western 2010s lifestyle/popular internet culture. He actually planned to carry out the attack somewhere else, but just used New Zealand since it was a good place to 'train' without arousing suspicion, then had the idea of just attacking a mosque there. Originally from a small town in rural Eastern Australia, no particularly strange tendencies and quite liked by many in the community. Seems to be a case of a not-too-bright country bumpkin/roid-head who suddenly got rich and felt chosen to 'do something' about the 'problems' he saw in the media and heard down the pub.

    In fact if I had to compare it to anyone apart from Breivik, I'd probably say it has huge echoes of the Port Arthur Massacre. A young dumb Australian guy from the middle of nowhere who suddenly comes into money and goes travelling, then videos himself killing a load of people for a confused list of reasons. Except it seems that this Christchurch guy had a little bit more up top and had some kind of ideology.
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; March 15, 2019 at 06:16 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

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