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Thread: Faction specific formations is possible!!

  1. #41
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    I made nothing but mentioned it this thread - made custom formations for attack/defend situations and had to disable G5 for the sake of saving formation without regroup into vanilla. Same about .xmls - only to save formations and fixing battlefield behavior according to unit formation roles.

    The purpose of this upload is to find such bugs as you describe and fix them. I'd be very pleased if you discribe more detailed - what was the battle type and composition of armies.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  2. #42

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    that one fight was all with enemy archers and crossbow unit,just played yesterday a new siege and the ai was very smart and almost lost the battle,they attaked the ram(as i do always) lucky i had mine general_unit to charge them from behind,on the walls units were well organized, only they left their general alone to be defeated, but they were fighting well as a whole and it was close, or I would have lost the battlein open field battles the general seems to get too close to my troops and then waits a few meters so I can shoot him with my crossbows and archers

    i guess it is difficult to use the wright number of code for the general unit,maybe a 9 will do(distance to attack) but it will never be perfect

  3. #43
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Tnx for feedback! It's vital to fix such problems.

    As for general_unit - I always wanted it to be more proactive, especially in minor battles, seems that general sometimes can deal such battles entering combat. But yes, in my test general dies too fast, not in the beginning but in the middle of the battle, which is deadly for troop morale. I'll think about it.

    As for sieges - credits goes strait to z3n, I didn't changed nothing in that part.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  4. #44

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    just had some more battles and i must say that i had a lot of fun with it,now i will see what the enemy will do if they besiege me with more then 1 army and if it can handle more then 1 ai armies
    getting older

  5. #45
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Thanks! I'd like you to post feedback here.

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...-Aimless-Steel

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  6. #46

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    So, bitterhowl proudly presents - TrueGeneral Alpha: Aimless Steel.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RkW...ew?usp=sharing

    Well, the name is self-explanational. Aimless Steel means that it's an early version and sometimes things may look ugly and AI goes wrong. I need much more tests which I can't perform alone, that's why I place it here.

    Formations I use are made by GrandViz, he is the best. Pathfinding made by z3n, as well as initial .xmls.

    All I made is bent them together. Here we got 5 custom formations - 2 for attack and 2 for defend (both dedicated to anti_cavalry/anti_infantry options) and 1 universal multi-purpose formation for byzantium faction.

    All formations are choosen for only test purpose (to see a possibility of having more then 1 working formation at all), setting adequate formation to battle situation is a goal for the next version, if the whole method will show workability at all.

    You have to disable any battle scripts before playing.

    Copy all files to data folder with replace option and backup original ones.
    Would this work with Europa Barbarorum II?

  7. #47
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Yes it will, but you better have to change descr_formations_ai file for something related for thar era because in this version I didn't include phalanx-oriented formations. I thought to make "Homeric Steel" for that period but haven't enough time for modding at the moment.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  8. #48

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Yes it will, but you better have to change descr_formations_ai file for something related for thar era because in this version I didn't include phalanx-oriented formations. I thought to make "Homeric Steel" for that period but haven't enough time for modding at the moment.
    Doesn't seem to be working with EBII. I think it crashes with the campaign_script.

  9. #49
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Since reverse modding came to town it will be very useful to see things about attack/defend/anti_cavalry/anti_infantry settings, supported_factions line in descr_formations_ai and how formation's priority written and read by .exe

    Those things are vital for final dealings with faction specific formations, or at least attack/defend specific formations. I posted video somewhere around this thread with 3 different stable formations on battlefield at once, so it's possible without any additional apps.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  10. #50

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Since reverse modding came to town it will be very useful to see things about attack/defend/anti_cavalry/anti_infantry settings, supported_factions line in descr_formations_ai and how formation's priority written and read by .exe

    Those things are vital for final dealings with faction specific formations, or at least attack/defend specific formations. I posted video somewhere around this thread with 3 different stable formations on battlefield at once, so it's possible without any additional apps.
    M2TW Engine Overhaul Project are far more active in their Discord server than in TWcenter, in case it's helpful
    Last edited by jdofo; March 26, 2021 at 02:32 PM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Don't feel bad for just discovering this. Multiple formations have been enabled and disabled several times as the game has updated. Specifically the steam version, I know in 2016 multiple formations would ctd at battle start, but is now possible again. However priority tags do not seem to work now, it just seems to take the first applicable formation in formations_ai. Unfortunate, back in @ 2012 it would actually still use formation and unit priorities, which allowed the AI to adopt formations based on army make-up, like it did for Rome. I hope they put that back in, but just having multiple formations available is better than nothing.

  12. #52
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Finally I dealt with it, preparing now a beta version of my TrueGeneral project.

    As usual, best solution is aurea mediocritas - use both .xml and scripted AI behaviour.

    At the current moment it's possible to use functional formation for defender AI, when it's restricted to move for AI army before melee contact, while shooting is allowed for missile and artillery units.

    If we use only frontal attack option for all classes of units in .xml then it seems formation will stay stable after unlocking army movement ability. But in this case we loose outflank and rear maneuver I think.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  13. #53
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Well, I've find a way to use custom formations in attack phase too. Here's an example of AI using "planned grinding" tactics, when AI has advance in ranged weapons and destroy player's army on a distance.


    I use special formation with gap between first line of missile units and rest army.
    Last edited by bitterhowl; February 16, 2023 at 07:01 AM.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Well, looks like I'm done with any custom formation in attack phase. This is an example of "classic" Medieval knights charge tactics.


    I see a very wide horizon of possibilities here. I can set custom tactics for any general depending on faction specific, personal traits and army composition. Looks like a break through, you know.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  15. #55
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Some phalanx study

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Specific knights charge formation for Khornites army in Call of Warhammer 1.5.1.


    Phalanx in attack in EBII 2.3

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  17. #57

    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Ok, I've made some formations, when they work they're good, but causes CTD way too often. Is there something specific you can do to prevent this? Or is there a tutorial or something about how to avoid this?

  18. #58
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Well, this workaround took several years from me, as you can see from this thread. First I found an entire possibility of different formations existing. Then I tried to implement them into game without any scripting with only .xml and descr_formations_ai, have had many trial and error attempts and tons of nerves burnt when AI composed all units into one single line when I expect to get field formation that I composed for several days.

    So now I find a solution when I decided to use advisor script method. I have default formation in descr_formations_ai_db, which will cover all situations and will not give CTD or single line. Then I write analyzer for AI and player's army content and when conditions match I script particular formation guaranteed I will not have CTD.

    Formation is stable in this case because AI units are under script control. I decided to keep it under script control before main melee contact, so I won't get situation when AI will regroup army to default formation immediately after battle started.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  19. #59
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    I've got an impressive progress with BAI, including reinforcement performance for AI.

    This is an example of AI attacks me with reinforcements. I could only win using initial position on the top of the mountain.


    AI dealing with my army and my ally reinforcements. Notice at 1:03 successful precursor attack in Rome I style.


    And finally proudly presented battle on a plain area when AI attacks me with reinforcements, and main army avoided my counterattack retreating to unite with reinforcements army to unleash full strength attack on me.

    I've returned settings to default and could finally find a way to win this fight defeating them one by one.
    Last edited by bitterhowl; December 19, 2023 at 10:10 PM.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  20. #60
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Faction specific formations is possible!!

    Did you upload your method somewhere? I'm very impressed you managed to avoid crashes, that was always a problem for me.
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