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Thread: The double standards of progressives in the West

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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default The double standards of progressives in the West

    In the past few years, the double standards of a large part of the progressives is becoming more and more jarring. In a recent example, a religious girl in Ohio saw pride flags and posters and next day she put up bible verses. She got suspended because apparently it is OK to put up pride flags but not bible verses.
    This is by far not the only double standard by progressives. 20 days before the 2016 USA elections, Hillary Clinton was saying things like "Donald, whatever happens, we need to work together afterwards" but you didn't see her denouncing the people screaming "he's not my president" after the elections. She was also not the only one that while applauding (before the defeat) Michelle Obama's "when they go low, we go high" speech, later acted in different ways. A high ranking Obama official said things like "when they go low, we kick them".
    And this kind of double standard and preaching one thing while doing another is not limited to the USA. In Greece, a large cross in Mytilene was pulled down because it offended illegal immigrants according to some progressives on the island, without realizing that breaking a religious symbol is offensive to the Christian (and legal) inhabitants of the island - that have erected that cross in honor of the thousands that have drowned in those waters.

    I would like to open a discussion on what the members of this forum feel about those and many more examples of hypocrisy from the progressive politicians - how such things are not disenfranchising progressive voters making them to turn on their representatives - forcing out radical elements and hypocrites by simply not voting for them. Is it because the other side is full of hypocrites too*? Is it because of loyalty to a party or ideal is blinding the voters to what should be obvious double standards? Is it because of a large number of celebretards doing the same making it a trend to be progressive?


    *Feel free to mention examples and there are many, but two wrongs don't make a right.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 13, 2019 at 02:27 PM.
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    Praeses
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Pretty sure the US has separation of church and state, and religion is generally kept out of schools. But by all means get angry and post about weird false equivalences in other people's countries to fire up your own political disagreements.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Pretty sure the US has separation of church and state, and religion is generally kept out of schools.
    Are you sure about that? Then I believe you should condemn this move, right? You don't want double standards, do you?
    Last edited by alhoon; March 12, 2019 at 11:23 PM.
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Are you sure about that? Then I believe you should condemn this move, right? You don't want double standards, do you?
    You want a cheersquad? I don't fit into those little dresses if that's what you want from me. F! A! L! S! E! Equiv-a-lencies! YAY!
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  5. #5

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    From French revolutionaries massacring nuns to progressives imprisoning grandmothers for not baking gay cakes, we've always known that the Left doesn't like Christianity. Not really a "double standard"; they're pretty open about what they want to do to Christians.

    "The party cannot be neutral toward religion, and it does conduct anti-religious propaganda against all and every religious prejudice, because it stands for science, while religious prejudice runs counter to science, because all religion is something opposed to science."
    Sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeft View Post
    As a society we've spent too long bowing to supernatural beliefs. Were it up to me all symbols of religion would be outlawed in public, all places of worship closed and turned into homeless shelters, and the CofE dissolved.

    I'm sure that will outrage some, but please feel free to use verifiable scientific methodology and proof your God exists. Until such time as you do, we'll all just agree that God, much like the tooth fairy, doesn't exist.
    Just give the Far Left a little power and their inner Stalinist always comes out.
    Last edited by Prodromos; March 13, 2019 at 08:52 AM.
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    So the extreme ends of politics are extreme and politicians are hypocrites. This is rather self evident.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    I am not sure how many useful conclusions we can extract from the reference to a couple of unlinked incidents. Even the most innocent child can observe that politics are marked by partiality, hypocrisy and insincerity. Perhaps a flawlessly designed scientific research can shed some light on this phenomenon, by examining wider social trends, but the controversies mentioned in the original post certainly do not suffice for anything more valuable than arbitrary generalisations. My social media are flooded by Islamists, who simultaneously criticise Israel and American warhawks for their hostility against Arabs and then complain why neither of them invades Syria and ethnically cleanse the country's religious minorities. Not to mention the innumerable conservatives who mock the leftists for being sentitive snowflakes and then get immediately triggered, when the protagonist role of a blockbuster is given to a female or when a Democrat populist dares to endorse the most moderate parts of the social-democratic doctrine. And yet, singling out Sunni extremist and the right-wing for being exceptionally insincere would seem very unfair and biased to me.

    Moreover, I have my reservations about the examples you used, alhoon. For instance, your own source admits that there are two stories about the destroyed cement cross in the island of Lesbos. The first one (about the cross being erected in the honour of whoever lost his life swimming there) seems rather weird and is not supported by any other source I looked for. The only English-speaking article I managed to detect was published by Breitbart (surprise, surprise), whose original source leaves no doubt about what really happened*. Namely, ultra-nationalist groups exploited the tensions created by the presence of a great number of refugees to call for some sort of beach Apartheid, where the local swimmers would not mix with "brown and black subhumans". As a result, the cross was constructed at night and illegally, in order to provoke the immigrants, which explains why it was promptly destroyed by activists who disagreed with its reactionary and reactionary message.
    *The fact that the cross-controversy is probably a product of fake-news makes me also skeptical about the halal story, given that the Middle East Forum is a conservative think tank, generously paid to propagate a certain agenda.

    Therefore, given the truth about the event, I can easily reverse your conclusions and blame the conservatives for inconsistency. Given that the cement cross was erected without building permit in private or public land (with probably negative repercussions to the natural landscape and environment), protesting its demolition means that there is zero respect for the "holy right of property" for the sake of religious intolerance, so we could assume that "conservatives" are deeply hypocritical and it is quite a surprise why the public has not already shifted to voting the much more sincere and honest "progressives". Of course, I'm being ironical, but I think it is obvious how easily fragile argumentation like this can be distorted. After all, to be frank, in a country where the Constitution openly confirms the privileged position of Orthodox Christianity, at the expense of secularism, while blasphemy laws are still enforced, Christianity is not justified to complain about harsh treatment. In general, I would say that, thanks to the victory of Donald Trump, there is now more anecdotal evidence of "conservative" lack of credibility than the opposite, since the current administration is inevitably undermined by the contradictions between its rosy promises and actual reality: From the President's dubious stance on the Electoral College to its most dedicated fandom bashing Hillary Clinton as a warmonger and a Saudi puppet and fruitlessly trying to defend their Messiah's crystal ball dance and numerous bombing attacks against the sovereign Syrian Republic. Quite the spectacle, but as I underlined previously, focusing on a specific side of the political spectrum is usually indicative of bias and is unsupported by the necessary data.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; March 13, 2019 at 06:14 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Inconsistency of conservatives mainly derives from neocons, who are largely disavowed as false by pretty much anyone on the right-wing spectrum.
    Then we see "progressives" not really receiving same treatment on their end of political spectrum, hence why OP's stance is factual.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    In the past few years, the double standards of a large part of the progressives is becoming more and more jarring. In a recent example, a religious girl in Ohio saw pride flags and posters and next day she put up bible verses. She got suspended because apparently it is OK to put up pride flags but not bible verses.
    Reading the link Its important to note she did something on her own w/o prior permission. In any high school that is usually a road trip to being in trouble. My high school paper was shut down due to critical (of the school) content and racy comics. Attempts to distribute a final issue on our own saw myself and the other staff all suspended for a week. Forming the Christian student union, and getting permission to hand out inventions to an after school meeting likely would not have been a problem.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Apart from all the fallacies alhoon used, the statement "when they go low, we kick them" was uttered by Eric Hodler as evidence by the link alhoon himself provides, it's not uttered by Hillary Clinton as alhoon claimed... What's really troubling is few actions of a handful of people seem to be enough to generalize millions of people.
    The Armenian Issue

  11. #11

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    You have the right to be offended, make use of it. But just keep your Bible verses and crosses to y'all.


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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Apart from all the fallacies alhoon used, the statement "when they go low, we kick them" was uttered by Eric Hodler as evidence by the link alhoon himself provides, it's not uttered by Hillary Clinton as alhoon claimed... What's really troubling is few actions of a handful of people seem to be enough to generalize millions of people.
    Alhoon never claimed Hillary said that, he said the Democrat politicians have double standards. He also said Hillary said "We need to work together" but did nothing to calm the "Not my president" crowd. He also mentioned how one of Obama's high-ranks, Eric Hodler, while he applaud Michele Obama's words started singing a completely different tune after the elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Inconsistency of conservatives mainly derives from neocons, who are largely disavowed as false by pretty much anyone on the right-wing spectrum.
    Seriously? Do you want me to start providing links about the double standards of Conservatives, the traditional ones?
    What do you think would have happened to a deeply devout school district in the Bible Belt if a gay kid put up posters about a pride parade? What about all the conservatives including Trump that said Trump should accept the results in election night only if he wins and then 5 days later where throwing vitriol on those that said "Not My President"?


    Hypocrisy and Double Standards, as Abdulmecid said, are the stapple of politics and go both ways. Since progressives also annoy me and they are far more widespread than conservatives, holding majorities in most of the West, I chose to ask about them, but it's not that the conservatives are better. It's just that the conservatives are few and older so they make less waves.

    My question is simply: Why do the voters keep ignoring such things and vote for clear Hypocrites. Again, as Abdulmecid said, even a child knows politicians include large numbers of liars and cheats.
    Why do we vote for those instead of the good ones?

    There are good progressive politicians for those with progressive ideas. They don't have to support the rabble-rousers that their morals don't stand the test of time.
    Sure, being progressive means your morals change, but they don't have to go down the drain.


    Abdulmecid: Two wrongs (or three if you count the zealots of Middle East) don't make a right. However, I was talking about the West.

    "And yet, singling out Sunni extremist and the right-wing for being exceptionally insincere would seem very unfair and biased to me." It would not seem insincere and unfair to me.
    Outside the West, Sunni extremists don't actually rely on votes. They frankly rely on lies to increase the ranks and thus their power.
    Singling out the right-wing for being insincere (although IMO less so that then progressives - in the whole Europe - Australia - USA - Canada, not just USA) seems perfectly fair and unbiased to me.

    "so we could assume that "conservatives" are deeply hypocritical and it is quite a surprise why the public has not already shifted to voting the much more sincere and honest "progressives""
    We can assume that conservatives are deeply hypocritical and it was not a surprise the public chose to vote new faces, progressives. Those were proven to be far less sincere and dishonest that abandoned all their promises except the not-popular ones and even managed to ignore the result of a referendum they called themselves.

    About the cross incident: Things might have been as you say, but knowing the people of Lesbos and the way the Greek communities there tried their best to save immigrants - and were awarded several honors for their selfless help - I would say that no, that cross was put up for the people losing their lives. As such, it was rebuild a few days later.
    And another thing: Those people faced horrors waaaay worse than anything the GD has to offer and x1000 times worse than seeing a cross. I doubt it would intimidate them.
    It didn't sit well with some hypocritical progressives that are anti-religion and found an opportunity to hit at the church.
    Last edited by Tango12345; March 13, 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Alhoon never claimed Hillary said that, he said the Democrat politicians have double standards. He also said Hillary said "We need to work together" but did nothing to calm the "Not my president" crowd. He also mentioned how one of Obama's high-ranks, Eric Hodler, while he applaud Michele Obama's words started singing a completely different tune after the elections.
    This is you saying it:
    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    20 days before the 2016 USA elections, Hillary Clinton was saying things like "Donald, whatever happens, we need to work together afterwards" but you didn't see her denouncing the people screaming "he's not my president" after the elections. She was also not the only one that while applauding (before the defeat) Michelle Obama's "when they go low, we go high" speech, later said things like "when they go low, we kick them".
    Last edited by Tango12345; March 13, 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This is you saying it:
    Well, You are right there. I misspoke and I didn't see it till you pointed it out.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    @Alhoon

    You ignored my post LGBT vs Christian thing is failing to accept that pretty much any non pre approved activity in a US high School aside from going to class is generally punished. I spent a week mopping floors for ordering a pizza for delivery and another for protesting the fact that in a school with no AC and a Michigan temp of ~100 F - Shorts were banned but not skirts. So I wore a skirt did not work out so well. Even got a fun speech from the detention teacher as in you are a trouble maker I am a little too used to seeing you the rest can just sit for a hour but you will be cleaning toilets. On balance I don't think that particular story rises to hypocrisy of progressives, just avoid bright ideals in school unless you have permission and don't whine about the consequences.
    Last edited by conon394; March 13, 2019 at 02:30 PM.
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    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    @Alhoon

    You ignored my post LGBT vs Christian thing is failing to accept that pretty much any non pre approved activity in a US high School aside from going to class is generally punished. I spent a week mopping floors for ordering a pizza for delivery and another for protesting the fact that in a school with no AC and a Michigan temp of ~100 F - Shorts were banned but not skirts. So I wore a skirt did not work out so well. Even got a fun speech from the detention teacher as in you are a trouble maker I am a little too used to seeing you the rest can just sit for a hour but you will be cleaning toilets. On balance I don't think that particular story rises to hypocrisy of progressives, just avoid bright ideals in school unless you have permission and don't whine about the consequences.
    That may be so, but the girl was not only accused of doing something without permission but also of "attacking" the "Gay Straight Alliance" an organization she was not even aware of, simply by putting up bible verses.

    And this is just one of many, many, many examples where in progressive school districts they throw the book at kids that are WASP but look the other way when it comes to minorities.
    Do you think that if a black girl put up posters of "Black Lives Matter" in the halls without permission she would be suspended? I am not sure. And if she did, there would be a different kind of backlash from large groups of SJWs demanding the racist and white supremacist school director to resign. There would be bleeding-heart articles about how brave she was and how what happened to her is a symptom of a sick society.
    But when a Christian girl does it? Crickets. (-from the SJWs that is, I am sure Fundamentalists would go to town with that)


    PS. I don't have the time and patience to read and reply to every post made in a thread I create. I try to read as many of them as I can and reply, but there's not always time or energy.
    I may simply not see them as I reply to previous or later posts that caught my eye.
    Last edited by alhoon; March 13, 2019 at 05:26 PM.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    From French revolutionaries massacring nuns to progressives imprisoning grandmothers for not baking gay cakes, we've always known that the Left doesn't like Christianity. Not really a "double standard"; they're pretty open about what they want to do to Christians.
    Pretty much, there's no double standards, they want to attack Christianity and replace it with an Equality/Progressive Dogma.. The existance of Christianity is seen as a Rival existance for their message which a mix of ideology/religion, so kinda works as if it was almost a competing rival religion.

    Pope Francis has done great patient Diplomatic work on this front, though.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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  18. #18
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by fkizz View Post
    Pretty much, there's no double standards, they want to attack Christianity and replace it with an Equality/Progressive Dogma.. The existance of Christianity is seen as a Rival existance for their message which a mix of ideology/religion, so kinda works as if it was almost a competing rival religion.
    Hardline conservative Christianity is absolutely seen as regressive and harmful. Liberal Christianity is seen (by anyone who knows anything at all about it, which admittedly excludes a lot of young people these days) as a staunch ally of progressive and socialist movements, albeit with a very different role to play. There are many examples of liberal Christian progressives throughout Western countries. Of course in the USA, because of the prevalence of Bible bashing hardliners, a lot of progressives (themselves in many cases raised in conservative Christian communities) are understandably quite opposed to the communities which treated them badly. It's not such a big thing in Western Europe though.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    Hardline conservative Christianity is absolutely seen as regressive and harmful. Liberal Christianity is seen (by anyone who knows anything at all about it, which admittedly excludes a lot of young people these days) as a staunch ally of progressive and socialist movements, albeit with a very different role to play. There are many examples of liberal Christian progressives throughout Western countries. Of course in the USA, because of the prevalence of Bible bashing hardliners, a lot of progressives (themselves in many cases raised in conservative Christian communities) are understandably quite opposed to the communities which treated them badly. It's not such a big thing in Western Europe though.
    Correction essentially all christian religion is seen as regressive by progressives. There is a limited number of ultra liberal protestant groups that are somewhat more tolerated because they tow the line .

    You routinely see the religious in american media portrayed as a caricature of of bible belt voters. Partially because the media finds it convenient to push that narrative, and Neo cons realised they can pay lip service to irrelevant side issues among a subsection of the conservative base instead of actually getting anything done politically.

    For a fun mental exercise, try to think of how many times you see a christian depicted positively on TV vs the opposite ?

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  20. #20
    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: The double standards of progressives in the West

    There's a valid argument to be made that in some respects progressives or 'liberals' are hypocritical in their approach, most notably in my opinion when they call for the banning of speakers they disagree with. But if we're going to talk about the hypocrisies of political sides, I think the double standards of conservatives are far more jarring. Consider the Evangelicals who support Trump: in 2011, 32% believed that "an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties." Yet in 2016, this number rose to 72%, the biggest turnaround of any group. Likewise, conservatives were all for law enforcement, until the FBI began investigating one of their own, becoming the Deep State. To top it off, Republicans passed a tax bill that would increase the deficit for years to come, despite consistently arguing that the deficit should be reduced - fiscal responsibility indeed being a key pillar of conservatism.

    In my opinion, these are far more significant instances of political hypocrisy than some girl allegedly being suspended for putting up bible verses.
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