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Thread: [Decision] Certification Program

  1. #21
    Radious's Avatar I came, I saw, I modded
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You justify my answer by 100%.
    You have learned modding not by the assistant of CA/SEGA but through tutorials and sources OTHERS CREATED and you used FOR FREE and you return NOTHING to that community that hosted you in your 1st steps to become what you are today.
    In my NATION that is called ungratefulness. 1st you "take" but you "return" nothing and then you have the nerve to sugest "solutions" when your actions barry this site.
    Gratidute is a virtue that its name seams unknown to you...You could simply add in social media links to direct here inorder to "advertise" your mods and help the site that made you what you are.
    It was never about awards and other tringets , it was always about the feeling that you are "home" and friendly phases would suport you, advice you and help you go on.
    For this spesific prospective i see TWC i was punished several times because the "feeling" TWC offered to me the last 11 years was priceless and can not be measured by the hundreds of downloads.
    Enough with that! I returned nothing? How dare you say something like that? For 12 years i am making mods, which are entirely free for everyone to use. For 12 years i give people content to enjoy and spend times with it, for 12 years they have fun with our overhauls since SHogun 2, as the ONLY TW modding team in history we support last 7 TW titles with full overhauls and wil lbe doing 8th this year.

    I helped hundrets of people with modding basics or even much more difficult tasks. We have support section open 24/7 more then 2 years already. Just because i dont do it here it does not mean its not happening. Its not my fault there are far better places for people to go when they need something or just want to have easy time with modding or playing. I only adapted to it, nothing else. I support TWC everywhere i go, every article was always shared so people know about it, every awards promoted so people can go and vote, because absolute majority of them have no clue about what is going here. Every overhaul we have is still kept and regularly updated here on TWC aswell.

    But saying that i am ungratefull is stupid lie. Last 5 years i am helping CA to improve their official tools, their games, testing all i can, reporting tons and tons of feedback so actualy everyone modder or not has better time for playing or changing the game. And on top of that we are working on own projects and created large community around it. We are always open for disscussions and supporting many people outside of it. I suggested changes to TWC dozens of times past 4-5 years, nothing changed, after Attila release people start leaving super fast, after WH1 release almost nobody left here to support newer games. We did and we stayed and yet i again asked for changes, that situation like that will not hold and will get only worse. And look where we are today?

    You dont know me, so please dont judge till you get some real info next time! I should be the last person you open mouth like that.
    Last edited by Radious; March 11, 2019 at 02:16 PM.

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  2. #22
    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    I like the idea, i am supporting.
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  3. #23
    20ninescene's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    I like it as well, I support it!
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  4. #24
    leo.civil.uefs's Avatar nis que va bruxo!
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    small ranks seems cool.

    Ive spent 7 years of modding to get the rank I get. Small awards during this period would be... encouraging.

  5. #25
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Well I always really appreciated your mod Leo. I dont think any other modder has done anywhere close to your work on settlements in an old game or new.


    Third Age just wouldn't feel the same without it. Even DaC would feel like some major things are missing.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You justify my answer by 100%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Radious View Post
    Enough with that! I returned nothing? How dare you say something like that? .
    Gentleman,

    The purpose of the proposal is to build community not destroy it. Let's not make statements based off of what we think, but only what we know. Let's return to the discussion at hand.

    Thank you both for the feedback. I certainly have a lot to consider these days.
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  7. #27
    Radious's Avatar I came, I saw, I modded
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Gentleman,

    The purpose of the proposal is to build community not destroy it. Let's not make statements based off of what we think, but only what we know. Let's return to the discussion at hand.

    Thank you both for the feedback. I certainly have a lot to consider these days.
    You are indeed correct. That is why i came here to offer my opinions, feedback and ideas. Not to listen insults....

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  8. #28
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Opposed. There's no need to make recognitions with such complexity. z3n proposal seems more adapted for such recognition. No need to add another office.
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  9. #29
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    There is no new office.

    Essentially, all that is needed is a forum and modders. The rules are basic and simple and should remain so.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    What committee? There isn't a committee.
    Every Artifex, every Opifex and Modding staff will have access to the Alchemist's Chamber. Every person with access can nominate any member including themselves for a skill. Every single member may vote.

    This isn't a badge. It is postbit like the Opifex award
    Ok. And how is this helpful exactly? I fail to see the incentive. Anyone can say that he's expert in XYZ, who vouches for his/her skills? Who checks the code/texturing/modelling works and makes sure that it's legitimate, not stolen etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    TWC already has a Discord channel. There is also a modding channel. (Chats are not much of an option for me given I am in East Asia).
    No that's not what I meant. Discord servers or dedicated 3rd party platforms should replace TWC's extremely old forum structure that nobody uses anymore. This place is stuck in the past. As much as I love old forums their time is over and it has been as such since the early 2010s. We are at the turn of the decade now. it is time to change or die.
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  11. #31
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Radious View Post
    !I should be the last person you open mouth like that.
    Is that a threat? Because I like threats...
    Quote Originally Posted by leo.civil.uefs View Post
    small ranks seems cool.

    Ive spent 7 years of modding to get the rank I get. Small awards during this period would be... encouraging.
    That was the whole idea in the 1st place. To encourage new kids to spend time and effort to modding and some of them -who knows- may become big modders one day.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    This is a bureaucratic monstrosity. While my issues have already been stated by others in some form or another, I will summarize what issues stand out to me most.
    - It is irrelevant to what TWC ultimately needs to offer. Other platforms are whipping TWC into the ground for small caliber mods because such mods make up the majority in newer total war games. While such a structure might be viable in Medieval 2 when virtually every mod is a core revision of gameplay, it is something that offers nothing to the current base for modern total wars, does not encourage the formation of such a base in a tangible way and does not make a viable case for itself in relation to the hinted puzzle from page 1.
    - I question the viability of its judgement. Everyone with their own metrics of decision making come to a vote in a blob of a forum board. The catch 22 forms; you either have everyone vote by their opinion resulting in a fairly metric-less setup of potentially biased (given the primary audience of the site) clientele or find it necessary to establish even more beaurocracy when it should be clear by now that TWC's very issue is being a gargantuan that is rather difficult to approach at a casual level.
    - 2/3rds majority? Is this a 2/3rds of everyone no matter what, or 2/3rds of people actively willing to engage in these votes?

    To answer a random blurb that nobody asked, but I acted anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlion View Post
    No that's not what I meant. Discord servers or dedicated 3rd party platforms should replace TWC's extremely old forum structure that nobody uses anymore. This place is stuck in the past. As much as I love old forums their time is over and it has been as such since the early 2010s. We are at the turn of the decade now. it is time to change or die.
    A case can be made for this, though you open a can of worms that leads to an extremely uphill battle and something on a scale way beyond the directive of this thread. It would be interesting to discuss at length if you created a dedicated thread for the subject.

  13. #33
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by CommodusIV View Post
    This is a bureaucratic monstrosity. While my issues have already been stated by others in some form or another, I will summarize what issues stand out to me most.
    - It is irrelevant to what TWC ultimately needs to offer. Other platforms are whipping TWC into the ground for small caliber mods because such mods make up the majority in newer total war games. While such a structure might be viable in Medieval 2 when virtually every mod is a core revision of gameplay, it is something that offers nothing to the current base for modern total wars, does not encourage the formation of such a base in a tangible way and does not make a viable case for itself in relation to the hinted puzzle from page 1.
    - I question the viability of its judgement. Everyone with their own metrics of decision making come to a vote in a blob of a forum board. The catch 22 forms; you either have everyone vote by their opinion resulting in a fairly metric-less setup of potentially biased (given the primary audience of the site) clientele or find it necessary to establish even more beaurocracy when it should be clear by now that TWC's very issue is being a gargantuan that is rather difficult to approach at a casual level.
    - 2/3rds majority? Is this a 2/3rds of everyone no matter what, or 2/3rds of people actively willing to engage in these votes?

    To answer a random blurb that nobody asked, but I acted anyways.
    The levels are black and white. There is virtually no subjective or biased possible unless you have a vendetta.
    As I mentioned before, there isn't a bureaucracy. The structure is anarchic in nature. It is modders determining if a modder did 'x."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlion View Post
    Ok. And how is this helpful exactly? I fail to see the incentive. Anyone can say that he's expert in XYZ, who vouches for his/her skills? Who checks the code/texturing/modelling works and makes sure that it's legitimate, not stolen etc.?
    To your last points, such a process will expose those that plagiarized other modders work. Yes, anyone can claim to be an "expert," but will your fellow modders agree.
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  14. #34
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    The level is not black and white, as pre-warscape modders can't judge the knowledge of warscape modders, as vice versa the warscape modders can't judge the knowledge of pre-warscape modders.

    And which practical value has this certfication for other modders, as i can't see in what game/engine, at least in the actual proposal?

    If i seek someone for coding in Rome II, the certfications in the current state don't say me in which game they are achieved, so i find them not very helpful.
    Last edited by Carmen Sylva; March 12, 2019 at 10:21 PM.

  15. #35
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    I find it more or less the same type of modding (warscape vs nonwarscape) but maybe that's just me with my coding.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodia_Metelli View Post
    The level is not black and white, as pre-warscape modders can't judge the knowledge of warscape modders, as vice versa the warscape modders can't judge the knowledge of pre-warscape modders.
    Why would they vote out of ignorance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodia_Metelli View Post
    And which practical value has this certfication for other modders, as i can't see in what game/engine, at least in the actual proposal?
    If i seek someone for coding in Rome II, the certfications in the current state don't say me in which game they are achieved, so i find them not very helpful.
    I code for ETW and I have made personal mods for Rome II, Attila and ToB with no problem. Once you know the principles/ mechanic on how it works, you can code for all. I know you do Rome II. I suggest you play around with Attila and ToB and you will see what I mean.
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  17. #37
    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    I'm talking from special knowledge, not basics, changes after a patch for example. If i have concret questions to a specific game this certification is not very helpful.

  18. #38

    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    About the main point. I dont think a complex medal system would work.
    About twcenter future .. I quite much think as Radious. Twcenter was great to learn and all but its structure is just old. The only way i see this forum to keep going ahead is to make it more Lean and clear.
    From time to Time i get peope asking me around steam how to change some small stuff of the game. And i cannot just say hey go to twcenter, because is too big.
    If forum had easier to find and better tutorials people would use them. Also a real time chat would be helpfull.
    Yet i know this might cost money or lot of Time. Considering how many modders are here we could get a desing idea dont you think?

  19. #39
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodia_Metelli View Post
    I'm talking from special knowledge, not basics, changes after a patch for example. If i have concret questions to a specific game this certification is not very helpful.
    The certificate is for recognition of skill. There is one that refers to knowledge and the sharing of knowledge.
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  20. #40
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: [Decision] Certification Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Weierstrass View Post
    About the main point. I dont think a complex medal system would work.
    About twcenter future .. I quite much think as Radious. Twcenter was great to learn and all but its structure is just old. The only way i see this forum to keep going ahead is to make it more Lean and clear.
    From time to Time i get peope asking me around steam how to change some small stuff of the game. And i cannot just say hey go to twcenter, because is too big.
    If forum had easier to find and better tutorials people would use them. Also a real time chat would be helpfull.
    Yet i know this might cost money or lot of Time. Considering how many modders are here we could get a desing idea dont you think?
    I agree with the chat idea but I don't agree with the rest. I think newer modders not being able to handle a forum with a mildly complex structure is a symptom of a greater problem
    That being the modern mods are nowhere near as complicated or large in scope.


    Gone are the days of the Third Age grandeur or the Europa Barbarorum overhauls of massive scale and on multiple fronts or even Divide at Impera. Now we are stuck with tiny little mods in scope or ones hyper focused on a specific goal.

    It's really disappointing trying to find a real overhaul mod for warhammer you are stuck with cobbling together a couple mods but it never feels cohesive or real like it was all intended to be part of the same vision. You can tell there was no teamwork or colloboration in an effort to achieve something bigger than the little pieces alone.

    Maybe TWCenter not being a place for the mods anymore played a role in that as steam modders cant even have easy access to tutorials any more or find answers to questions by searching Google and seeing TWCenter question and answer threads. I dont know why but thats another problem with steam workshop, the quality of the mods are worse in terms of scope. its sad.
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