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Thread: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

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    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Article III. ResolutionsAny Citizen member can propose a resolution for discussion by posting a thread in the Prothalamos.7

    Resolutions can be Amendments, making changes to this document8; Decisions, suggesting changes to the site; or Nominations, proposing a member for a Curial award; Ostraka9; or Votes of No Confidence (VoNC) against Curial Officers or Staff Members. A VoNC may only be initiated for neglect of duty or abuse of authority10 and, if successful against a Curial Officer, results in their immediate removal from office.11

    All resolutions are voted on at the proposer's request5, 12 and pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority of non-abstaining votes in favor.13 All Amendments14 and Decisions15 are considered to have immediate effect and no retroactive effect unless specifically stated otherwise. The Administration may veto any resolution.

    After a successful vote the Consul enacts the resolution, or requests the administration to enact it or to give an official reason for not doing so.16


    Section 2 Footnote 3 revision (NB: The green text was previously voted on in the Curial Overhaul amendment as a footnote in section 1. I am proposing to move it to this footnote:

    3 Should more than six members apply for any position, the Administration may shortlist six members to stand for the election. If there is no applicant, the application period is prolonged and the incumbent will remain in office until a replacement has been elected.

    Applicants for the offices of Primus Prefect Censors and Consul cannot have received an infraction or a Curial Warning in at least six months and must have been Citizens for at least three months. Additionally, the Primus Praefect requires verifiable experience in moderation for three months, and/or Tribunal experience either as a Tribune or having served at least two terms as Magistrate. Censors are appointed positions that serve the same term as the Consul, but they may be reappointed by future Consuls. Applicants for the office of Magistrate cannot have received a Moderation Warning, an infraction or a Curial Warning in at least six twelve months.

    Applicants for Curial offices must meet the minimum requirements of the position:
    • Consul - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least one month
    • Censor - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial Warning for at least one month and must not have any active moderation warnings
    • Primus Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months. Must have verifiable experience in staff moderation for three months, and/or Tribunal experience either as a Tribune or having served at least two terms as Magistrate.
    • Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Modertaion Warning for at least three months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    • Magistrate - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.





    Section III - Praefects, Censors, and Magistrates
    Article I. The Triumvirate and ReferralsCitizens are expected to behave in an exemplary manner and can be referred1 to the Praefects for a review of their behavior and possible disciplinary action. Such a Referral is initiated automatically by Moderation for infractions incurred, or discretionally by Citizens for behavior considered unbecoming. Praefects may decide if a referral is frivolous. If a referral has merit, the Praefects request a defense2 from the referred and decides3 whether4 and which5 disciplinary action is to be taken.6

    If a citizen believes an offense by another citizen is egregious enough to bring before the entire Curia that citizen may initiate an Ostrakon.6,10


    The Triumvirate consists of:

    • The Praefects - Who discuss and vote on every Referral. The Primus Praefect holds the tiebreaking vote if necessary.
    • The Consul and Censors - Who may discuss Referrals, hold no vote, except in the case of infractions issued to citizens in the Curia where they will act in place of Praefects.
    • The Hexagon Council - Who may choose to participate.


    Praefects, censors, and the consul must recuse themselves in their own referrals or any case of a non-Curial infraction they may have issued elsewhere as a site moderator.7

    If a Citizen is not satisfied with the result of their referral, they may request a public appeal. The appeal will be discussed and decided in the Curia.8 The result is binding and is not subject to further appeal.




    Existing Footnote 6:
    6 All citizen initiated referrals processed as Ostrakons are public. All other referrals are private unless the member referred requests for them to be made public.


    New footnote for ostraka #10:

    10 A citizen initiates an ostrakon by making a case via private message to one of the Praefects. A majority vote of the prefects determines if an ostrakon has merit. If an ostrakon has merit:
    • the Primus Praefect notifies the defendant and requests a defense
    • After a defense is provided, or after one week if no defense is provided, the Primus Parefect posts the ostrakon accusation and defense within the Quaestiones Perpetuae
    • After three days of discussion a Praefect adds a poll lasting seven days to either Dismiss, Revoke Citizenship, or Abstain. A 2/3rds majority of non-abstaining votes is required for revocation.



    Regarding the change in magistrate requirements, I'm open to leaving that at 6 months for both magistrates and the Primus Prefect and reducing the requirement for Consul to eliminate that discrepancy. Thoughts?
    Last edited by StealthFox; March 10, 2019 at 05:57 PM.

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    Hader's Avatar Things are very seldom what they seem. In my experience, they’re usually a damn sight worse.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I believe this fits perfectly with necessary clarifications and not complicating further anything else. The only thing I think worth maybe discussing is about appointment of Censors by the Consul; I suppose I intended/thought it would be a per Consul sort of thing, like choosing your cabinet at the beginning of your Consul term, and being able to replace Censors as needed if any could not continue actively in their office, but that each new Consul would pick new Censors and they wouldn't necessarily carry over between two different Consular terms. Thoughts?

    Otherwise, Support.

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    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I can support this with some additions.

    Personally, I would like to have proposals ideas to be a nice tease for citizenship, but I supposed voting will have to do for now.

    Any Citizen member can propose a resolution for discussion by posting a thread in the Prothalamos, except VonC which only citizens can propose.

    The second issue is the problem of non-elected Censors judging referrals. Since it would always be a ToS violation anyway, I see no conflict with Magistrates and Consuls serving that role. The alternative is to restrict Censors to citizens who have been a citizen for three months or more.

    The third issue; Keep Moderation Warning.

    The fourth issue: 6 months is long enough. This is a Gaming site forum. let's keep that in perspective.
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    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    SF's proposal has in toto without any alterations my consent. It benefits all TWC members.
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    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    @ Pike:

    I actually edited in a line (probably while you were reading the original post) that I am open to keeping the magistrates and primus prefect at a 6 month requirement and reducing the other. I realize 12 months is a long time, maybe too long.

    I almost removed VONC from being allowed by any member but kept it since the constitution allows VONC of staff in addition to Curial officers. I hope that this would almost never be used, but I think it is a good check to have in the constitution.

    Regarding warning vs. infraction, I think infraction makes it clearer that it isn't referring to notes. It's also consistent with the previous line about Consuls.

    Lastly, I'm not sure what to do about censors judging referrals. I hate to add any requirement to it as that's supposed to be an introductory position for getting involved with the Curia, or least it previously was as Curial Assistant.

    @ Hader:

    I think it's important to allow reappointments of censors as activity isn't so great these days and because new Consuls can see the activity of previous censors. That's why I asked Elfdude to stay on as a Curial assistant at the beginning of my term. I was impressed by how helpful and active he was and generally how he handled things in the Curia.
    Last edited by StealthFox; March 08, 2019 at 10:58 PM.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    @ Pike:
    I actually edited in a line (probably while you were reading the original post) that I am open to keeping the magistrates and primus prefect at a 6 month requirement and reducing the other. I realize 12 months is a long time, maybe too long.
    For me, it is the same philosophical approach with term limits. The goal is to make officials accessible. It is best the roles are spread around. A year or 6 months is a very long time to have to wait to serve the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    I almost removed VONC from being allowed by any member but kept it since the constitution allows VONC of staff in addition to Curial officers. I hope that this would almost never be used, but I think it is a good check to have in the constitution.
    The biggest problem is the misuse of frivolous cases. it wasn't that long ago a VonC was initiated against a Staff member and it was unconstitutionally denied. The MCT and TCT are rife with unfounded rants and accusations against staff. I prefer that we do not allow such behavior to come here in an official proposal as opposed to mindless rants and endless suppositions and paranoia. Let's keep that garbage out of here.

    Regarding warning vs. infraction, I think infraction makes it clearer that it isn't referring to notes. It's also consistent with the previous line about Consuls.

    I guess you neglected to read your own thread???

    ToS
    Terms Violations
    Infractions of the terms of service are tracked using the infraction system, which allows moderators to record incidents in a reliable and centralized fashion. All such records of infractions are viewable in the user's profile to moderating staff and the user in question, but no one else.


    Note
    Notes are given when the actions of a member require staff to officially contact them. They are simply a record of that contact and do not contribute toward a member's warning level. They are recorded both to let other moderators know that the user has been informed of the particular rule, and to give the user a record of all contacts with moderators they have had.


    Warning
    Warnings are given when a member commits an offense (other than a very mild one) when the member should already know the rule in question, such as if a moderator has previously discussed that type of offense with them. Warnings expire after three months and contribute toward a member's warning level. How many levels an offense is worth can be found in the Member Conduct section in (parentheses). Whether to give the first or second number, if applicable, is up to moderator discretion.
    Infractions are both Notes and Warnings and they are both viewable via the user's profiles. (aprt from the fact both are indicated as subsets of Infractions). Moderation warnings are just warnings.

    Lastly, the Constitution has always stated "Moderation Warning" and it has never been understood to mean anything but a Moderation Warning. It is Crustal clear as is. Let's keep it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    Lastly, I'm not sure what to do about censors judging referrals. I hate to add any requirement to it as that's supposed to be an introductory position for getting involved with the Curia, or least it previously was as Curial Assistant.
    I am working on a new system (actually an old system, but modernized).
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    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I agree with Pike () about the term's use of 'infraction'. Not everybody has the same interpretation of the meaning of 'infraction': does it include or not the Note? Can a note be worth enough to prevent an application? If not clarified, I think that 'moderation warning' remains better
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I agree with Lith and Pike on the infraction issue. Keep the 'moderation warning'. Apart from that I would support the proposal.

    On a side note I agree with Pike that VonC's can get out of hand but as we citizens have shown we are ourselves very good in doing this so I think this is the wrong proposal to address this issue. We might should change something in the VonC procedure.
    So I think all members shall initiate a VonC.

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    Katsumoto's Avatar Quae est infernum es
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Support. Good to have this clarified.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Support, whatever you do about the infraction/warning thing.
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    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'm going to make some edits regarding warning vs. infraction and the requirements for all the offices including censors. I think I have a simple fix for helping address the fact they may judge referral cases. Look for the edits in the next day or so. I want to allow time for more feedback so I'm only making one set of revisions.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I wish you would also consider the VonC issue; I really do not want the Prothalomos to turn into a circus as the MCT and TCT has become.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I wish you would also consider the VonC issue; I really do not want the Prothalomos to turn into a circus as the MCT and TCT has become.
    Are you worried similar attitudes and activity may come over from those commentary threads into the Prothalamos now that it is open?

    Shame we have no way of moderating the Prothalamos to combat it.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    MCT and TCT are not moderated so it can't happen here. Gotcha!
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    mishkin's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    MCT and TCT are not moderated so it can't happen here. Gotcha!
    they were usually moderated with a certain permissiveness, an attitude that seems to have changed; no tumult recently (in the las months) in the tribunal commentary thread, posts frequently deleted by Tango in the Moderation comentary thread. In any case, it is too much to ask to give a vote of confidence to te prothalamos and katsumoto?

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Okay, OP updated. I reworked some of the requirements and reverted back to Moderation Warning.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Looks good, support.

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    Carmen Sylva's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I consent.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    I hope you will reconsider the vonc thing. It's absurd to have people without voting rights being able to initiate vonc's. Otherwise good proposal and good work Fox.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Curial Overhaul Cleanup Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by General Brewster View Post
    I hope you will reconsider the vonc thing. It's absurd to have people without voting rights being able to initiate vonc's. Otherwise good proposal and good work Fox.
    And why is that so absurd?

    I've stated that members now can post here, and thus have interactions with curial officers, so being able to VonC an officer of unbecoming behavior should be within their grasp just as much as any citizen.

    I've yet to hear anything I feel is substantive on why it can be absurd they can do this. Lack of a vote in the end part of the VonC process is not really a reason at all.

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