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Thread: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

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    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    I'm making this here so that all members of Total War Center can add their thoughts.

    What do you think the Curia can do for Total War Center?

    We're supposedly a body full of the most experienced modders and debaters. Shouldn't we actually do something with this group of people and point them all towards a common goal? Eg


    - Taking control of the Modding Awards. As far as I'm aware, the Modding Staff still haven't taken control of it, so there's no reason why the the Curia can't take the job.
    - Host competitions of our own that are open to everyone on the site
    - Introduce players to all the various parts of the forums from modding Rome Total War to modding Warhammer, or from debating politics to creating courses on the TWC University.


    Just brain storm stuff. Maybe absolutely nothing will happen, but maybe something will.




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    Flinn's Avatar ehhhhh.. You don't say???
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    - Taking control of the Modding Awards. As far as I'm aware, the Modding Staff still haven't taken control of it, so there's no reason why the the Curia can't take the job.
    I'm the reason; you might have missed the fact that I'm the Award & Competitions Hexer; both Site awards are under the direct management of Hex since a while now

    edit: as I'm here I'd like to drop down few points:

    - the site is administered by the Staff under the direction of the Hex; anything that is "official" has to have the approval of the Hex, so from this point of view the Curia has no independence, unless previously authorized by the Hex; this is not my opinion, this is how it works, established by the owner of this site.

    - the Curia can propose changes to the structure and even to the management and administration of the site, but every decision taken is pending the approval of Hex (which is implicit most of the times, but not always so).

    - the Curia is made of people, it's not Skynet; most part of the people composing the Curia is also part of Staff, so pretending to assign to the Curia duties which are already carried out (or should be so) by the Staff is pointless
    Last edited by Flinn; March 08, 2019 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    The Curia does not "do" anything. The only reasons why it gives awards is because it created every single one of them except Civitates (Citizenship) that was created by the admin. Citizens have two jobs: Be a role model and patronize other members who can be role models. The one benefit it received was having a voice and vote on how the site was run. Over the years, it artificially elevated itself to the point that it acted elitist. meanwhile contributors great and small ssep through the cracks. Perhaps we should stop looking for "other" things to do and do the two things we are supposed to do.

    If members want to help the site there are a lot of things they could do.
    Content
    Librarian
    Wiki
    Moderation
    Modding
    Gaming

    There is something for everyone if they want to do something. However, citizens have the role of rewarding contributors in many areas that make this a rich community, but we are too busy arguing nonsense.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The Curia does not "do" anything. The only reasons why it gives awards is because it created every single one of them except Civitates (Citizenship) that was created by the admin. Citizens have two jobs: Be a role model and patronize other members who can be role models. The one benefit it received was having a voice and vote on how the site was run. Over the years, it artificially elevated itself to the point that it acted elitist. meanwhile contributors great and small ssep through the cracks. Perhaps we should stop looking for "other" things to do and do the two things we are supposed to do.
    If this above is the real and only meaning of the curia, then I prefer to resign from my citizenship instead of being part of that kind of ...(can't say the word but you've got my point, right?).
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; March 08, 2019 at 08:37 AM.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The Curia does not "do" anything. The only reasons why it gives awards is because it created every single one of them except Civitates (Citizenship) that was created by the admin. Citizens have two jobs: Be a role model and patronize other members who can be role models. The one benefit it received was having a voice and vote on how the site was run. Over the years, it artificially elevated itself to the point that it acted elitist. meanwhile contributors great and small ssep through the cracks. Perhaps we should stop looking for "other" things to do and do the two things we are supposed to do.

    If members want to help the site there are a lot of things they could do.
    Content
    Librarian
    Wiki
    Moderation
    Modding
    Gaming

    There is something for everyone if they want to do something. However, citizens have the role of rewarding contributors in many areas that make this a rich community, but we are too busy arguing nonsense.
    What I bolded in blue cannot be part of the Curia, because you are asked to become a moderator and not the opposite by asking to become a moderator.

    As far I know, the Librarians is a separate department of the Content Staff, unless that have changed.

    The wiki is another story as it is on a different platform than in a forum aside of the staff room of course and other forum related discussions.

    That's exactly what's wrong with the Curia IMO.



    Also, if anything of what you said here happen then I agree with Lifth and doing might be the only thing that is the most logical and sensible thing to do.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    What I bolded in blue cannot be part of the Curia, because you are asked to become a moderator and not the opposite by asking to become a moderator.

    As far I know, the Librarians is a separate department of the Content Staff, unless that have changed.

    The wiki is another story as it is on a different platform than in a forum aside of the staff room of course and other forum related discussions.

    That's exactly what's wrong with the Curia IMO.
    Leo, did you miss this line prior to the list?
    If members want to help the site there are a lot of things they could do.
    Did you notice it was separated from the previous paragraph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Also, if anything of what you said here happen then I agree with Lifth and doing might be the only thing that is the most logical and sensible thing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    If this above is the real and only meaning of the curia, then I prefer to resign from my citizenship instead of being part of that kind of ...(can't say the word but you've got my point, right?).
    So you are saying that you do not want to be an exemplary member of the site? You do not want to recognize others through patronage wh could be exemplary members of the site? It is pretty elitist to think otherwise.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    So you are saying that you do not want to be an exemplary member of the site? You do not want to recognize others through patronage wh could be exemplary members of the site? It is pretty elitist to think otherwise.
    Not at all. I'm just saying that I don't want to be part of 'an institution' with which I don't share values. Please, stop distorting my posts. Thank you.
    And btw, I can't see how it is elitist to refuse a higher rank
    Does it means that all members who have resigned from the citizenship were elitist?
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Not at all. I'm just saying that I don't want to be part of 'an institution' with which I don't share values. Please, stop distorting my posts. Thank you.
    And btw, I can't see how it is elitist to refuse a higher rank
    Does it means that all members who have resigned from the citizenship were elitist?
    Any misunderstanding is your fault if you fail to provide any context when you respond. Simply quoting me and making a vague statement is not very productive.

    I would not use the term "refuse" as "elitist." One could hardly blame that perception if contributing members are not being patronized.
    I stated reeatedly that resigning makes zero sense. Participation in the Curia is a benefit, but it is not the reasons why you were patronized. You are thought to be an exemplary member of the site. If the focus is on being an exemplary member there would never be a cause for resigning. If you make it about the site being in your own image, then resigning is an unfortunate and an unnecessary consequence.

    The "Curia" has worked itself into a corner. The site needs little massive changes, it has managed to add more awards than it can possibly give to more than deserving members, and in the meantime, we lost the concept that we are supposed to be exemplary members and by being so, recognized others. There should be no reason why a citizen resign their "rank" unless they choose to not be an exemplary member and no reasons got anyone to have their "rank" removed unless they are no longer exhibiting exemplary behavior.

    Maybe this is more clear?
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    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    So Flinn and Pike, you're both admitting that the Curia can do nothing to help the site as a whole, and its never going to be more than a glorified role playing group?

    Personally, if Hex are fundamentally opposed to the Curia taking on any site-wide responsibilities at all, then there's no point to being a Citizen other than to have a shiny badge.
    Last edited by Commissar Caligula_; March 09, 2019 at 12:31 AM.




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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Any misunderstanding is your fault if you fail to provide any context when you respond. Simply quoting me and making a vague statement is not very productive.
    You describe the citizen role/duty in a very restricting manner that I don't share. I've replied that I'd prefer to resign from my citizenship rather to be limited to the role you described. You seem to be the only one unable to understand me. Are you doing this on purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I would not use the term "refuse" as "elitist." One could hardly blame that perception if contributing members are not being patronized.
    I stated reeatedly that resigning makes zero sense. Participation in the Curia is a benefit, but it is not the reasons why you were patronized. You are thought to be an exemplary member of the site. If the focus is on being an exemplary member there would never be a cause for resigning. If you make it about the site being in your own image, then resigning is an unfortunate and an unnecessary consequence.
    Tbh, if I knew what to expect from the curia at that time, I'm not sure that I'd have accepted it. This is just like a exlusive gentlemen club, no matter what. I think that I've done more for the site in Content and Moderation staffs than I'd ever be able to do in the curia. You can consider me in many ways but as elitist... what a joke!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The "Curia" has worked itself into a corner. The site needs little massive changes, it has managed to add more awards than it can possibly give to more than deserving members, and in the meantime, we lost the concept that we are supposed to be exemplary members and by being so, recognized others. There should be no reason why a citizen resign their "rank" unless they choose to not be an exemplary member and no reasons got anyone to have their "rank" removed unless they are no longer exhibiting exemplary behavior.

    Maybe this is more clear?
    Just a very simplist view.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; March 09, 2019 at 01:05 AM. Reason: typos
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    So Flinn and Pike, you're both admitting that the Curia can do nothing to help the site as a whole, and its never going to be more than a glorified role playing group?

    Personally, if Hex are fundamentally opposed to the Curia taking on any site-wide responsibilities at all, then there's no point to being a Citizen other than to have a shiny badge.
    No, citizenship was created to promote good posting and good contribution. Staff facilitates the activity. It is the members who provide the activity. Citizenship is integral for accomplishing that very goal.
    The only thing that is "role-playing" is meddling with the amendments. Citizens are not supposed to "play" in the Curia. The only exception was the Symposium where it is supposed to be an intimate place where only citizens can post thus a higher level of discourse.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    You describe the citizen role/duty in a very restricting manner that I don't share. I've replied that I'd prefer to resign from my citizenship rather to be limited to the role you described. You seem to be the only one unable to understand me. Are you doing this on purpose?
    I have told you this before; I can only respond to what you write. The first message was cryptic, then the last one was a slight elaboration compare to this response.
    How is it restrictive? Citizenship is given to exemplary members. By your activity, you promote good postings. The benefit is the ability to participate in the Curia where you can suggest an improvement to the site (that has changed, now, apparently just to vote).
    It is ordered 66 that has restricted you. You now receive fewer benefits then you had before.


    Tbh, if I knew what to expect from the curia at that time, I'm not sure that I'd have accepted it. This is just like a exlusive gentlemen club, no matter what. I think that I've done more for the site in Content and Moderation staffs than I'd ever be able to do in the curia. You can consider me in many ways but as elitist... what a joke!!!
    Just a very simplist view.[/QUOTE]

    No, I would never use the word elitist. I put it in quotes. If you want something to do that promotes the site then offer patronage to members who you believe to be exemplary. Otherwise, citizenship is restrictive and you cannot blame the membership for thinkng otherwise.

    You do not think referring to the Curia an exclusive Gentlemen's club as simplistic?

    Again the Curia as a "Job" for lack of a better word

    1. Be exemplary
    2. Recognize exemplary members (citizenship and large awards, the former being vital)
    3. Suggest improvements (now just vote)


    Outside of this, what is the Curia supposed to do?
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Modding Awards, Members Awards, different competitions, public polls, promote and help modders's work... Should I carry on? There are many areas on this site where the curia could have been helpful.
    The Modding Staff who's supposed to take some of these duties now exists only because the curia has not been able to do it itself.

    Your pathetic remarks about my posting style to drive away the discussion won't change it. Stay on topic for the discussion sake
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Modding Awards, Members Awards, different competitions, public polls, promote and help modders's work... Should I carry on? There are many areas on this site where the curia could have been helpful.
    The Modding Staff who's supposed to take some of these duties now exists only because the curia has not been able to do it itself.
    The Curia actually did. There used to be two positions that dealt with Modding. At some point, that responsibility went to a Modding Hex.

    The Curi was originally populated by Civitates, that is members that contributed in the common areas. The fact that they had a Modding officer was impressive. I have to go back and look but I believe Artifex was created after those two positions were discontinued. Anyway, and traditionally speaking, it would be strange for the Curia to focus on a specific task like Modding.

    The Function of the Curia would be to suggest ideas (e.g. Modding Staff). If the Curia was remiss, it should have established an official staff position to handle the awards.

    It doesn't make sense to have the Curia 'do" anything. Why would the Curia recognize an exemplary member doing a certain activity and they want that same person to stop doing that activity? Citizens are in a position to suggest changes and these changes would involve adding staff responsibilities as the site may demand. If a member of citizen wants to contribute outside of what they are already doing then they should join staff and do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Your pathetic remarks about my posting style to drive away the discussion won't change it. Stay on topic for the discussion sake
    Sorry, but you stated; You seem to be the only one unable to understand me. Are you doing this on purpose? I simply explained that my understanding is directly related to the available information. maybe not include the "Are you doing this on purpose?" next time and there would be no chance of drifting off point. It is counter-productive to purposely misunderstand. After all, I need people to understand how best to move forward. I am the eternal optimist.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    There are many areas on this site where the curia could have been helpful.
    The Modding Staff who's supposed to take some of these duties now exists only because the curia has not been able to do it itself.
    That's a question I have asked myself.

    When was the last time, if ever, a citizen posted a proposal in the Curia (before the recent changes) for the last 10 years or so about what status TWC Download once had and how to improve it for the future?

    Note, I have not searched the archives inside the Curia so I could be mistaken.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The Curia actually did. There used to be two positions that dealt with Modding. At some point, that responsibility went to a Modding Hex.

    The Curi was originally populated by Civitates, that is members that contributed in the common areas. The fact that they had a Modding officer was impressive. I have to go back and look but I believe Artifex was created after those two positions were discontinued. Anyway, and traditionally speaking, it would be strange for the Curia to focus on a specific task like Modding.

    The Function of the Curia would be to suggest ideas (e.g. Modding Staff). If the Curia was remiss, it should have established an official staff position to handle the awards.

    It doesn't make sense to have the Curia 'do" anything. Why would the Curia recognize an exemplary member doing a certain activity and they want that same person to stop doing that activity? Citizens are in a position to suggest changes and these changes would involve adding staff responsibilities as the site may demand. If a member of citizen wants to contribute outside of what they are already doing then they should join staff and do so.
    That's the problem: the curia did but not anymore for for quite a while now. Where are these committees in charge of specific duties for the betterment of the site?
    I'm expecting a bit more from the curia than just suggesting ideas. Remember, persuaders are defaulters.

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Sorry, but you stated; You seem to be the only one unable to understand me. Are you doing this on purpose? I simply explained that my understanding is directly related to the available information. maybe not include the "Are you doing this on purpose?" next time and there would be no chance of drifting off point. It is counter-productive to purposely misunderstand. After all, I need people to understand how best to move forward. I am the eternal optimist.
    Totally irrelevant here. Your insistance on this, here, in public, is becoming ridiculous, honestly.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    That's the problem: the curia did but not anymore for for quite a while now. Where are these committees in charge of specific duties for the betterment of the site?
    I'm expecting a bit more from the curia than just suggesting ideas. Remember, persuaders are defaulters.
    I still not understanding why you want the Curia to do anything when there is staff to actually do something. I am not sure why you would expect a member of the site who is already contributing and not nterested in any staff position would want to join a group that will act as a defacto staff position??? That is not the reality of the situation.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Your remark applies as well for your definition of the curia: why a member of the site would become a citizen (a part for the recognition of his contribution) if the purpose of the curia is not more than proposing ideas? Do you really think that this would increase attractiveness and activity in the curia? I don't think so.

    Regarding staffs, I don't see the curia as a replacement or a competitor but rather as a possible complement. Content, Moderation and Admins are already working together even if it seems we're all working in our respective corner. So why keep the curia aside if there's a way to associate it to the 'real' life of the site
    That's why I'm always in favor of the simplification of the curial stuff. It has become far too much complex and bureaucratic to be able to do the above. If the curia wants some activity here, it should get out of its horourable but dusty office (if you can get the pic) and get involved in concrete activities for the site betterment and not to flatter some personal egos. Somehow, most of the citizens have already understood that by being inactive in the curia but still on the site in numerous and different ways.
    That's how I see what the curia can do. As you can see, it's far more than just proposing ideas and citizenship. And this kind of idea/proposal is a step forward IMO. It may fail or it may be successful. But at least, we can try.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; March 10, 2019 at 12:16 AM. Reason: typos
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    There is a great quote that sums up the difference between citizens from the other board members. There isn't any difference "except the Curia bit."

    There isn't anything excludes the Curia from setting up defacto staff or committees.

    I had mentioned before while the CdeC was not great, its removal left a vacuum on how to deal with essential trivialities on how things should functions. We fought over the scraps which only reaffirm those looking from outside of the uselessness of the Curia. In retrospect, it would have been better if a committee would have been formed after the removal to resolve all of the Constitutional functionalities. The final result should have been voted on.

    The Curia does not have to be an active place, but it should be a place that it was intended for. Incessant amendments are a bore. Yes, I am as guilty as the next guy. I just fear Oder 66 is Removal of the CdeC part II.

    Citizenship as its best hope of fixing itself by being a place it was intended to be. Then, citizens would be proud to patronize and members will be looking forward to being approached.
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  19. #19
    Flinn's Avatar ehhhhh.. You don't say???
    Patrician Citizen Content Emeritus Gaming Director

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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    So Flinn and Pike, you're both admitting that the Curia can do nothing to help the site as a whole, and its never going to be more than a glorified role playing group?

    Personally, if Hex are fundamentally opposed to the Curia taking on any site-wide responsibilities at all, then there's no point to being a Citizen other than to have a shiny badge.
    There is no opposition, just roles; the Hex (and by extension GED), does not need to oppose anything, if we don't want something we remove it.

    I think I've said it a million of times: TWC is administered by the Staff under the direction of the Hex; the Curia is an awarding body, with "Citizenship" being the first award recognition to enter said body and have a voice in awarding other members as well; the Curia retains the right to propose modifications to the Site and Administration and to his own structure/functioning, but every decision is potentially subject to vetoing by Hex.

    This is, in few lines, how it works (at the least, how I understood it so far); the Curia still has a lot of potential, in anything to fill in the gaps possibly left open by the Staff and to function as a counseling body. What the Curia can do to help the Staff run the site? Become more efficient and faster in his decisions, and become more effective in gathering ideas, feedback and suggestions from the membership and in forwarding them to the Staff... if the two entities work together rather than stepping on each other's toe, then we can do good things for the site.

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  20. #20
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Discussion] What can the Curia do for Total War Center?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    This is, in few lines, how it works (at the least, how I understood it so far); the Curia still has a lot of potential, in anything to fill in the gaps possibly left open by the Staff and to function as a counseling body. What the Curia can do to help the Staff run the site? Become more efficient and faster in his decisions, and become more effective in gathering ideas, feedback and suggestions from the membership and in forwarding them to the Staff... if the two entities work together rather than stepping on each other's toe, then we can do good things for the site.
    You mean citizens could be more active across the forum to look for members who is posting about how to improve this or that on TWC then bring it back to the Curia and post a proposal about it instead of coming up with proposals that isn't beneficial for non-citizens except for the small or medium awards.

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