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Thread: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

  1. #381
    Genava's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Very good talk with Simon Donner about climate science:


    Edit: by the way, the other educative videos that have been put in the thread are also interesting:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Last edited by Genava; July 08, 2019 at 03:57 AM.
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  2. #382
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomPerson2000 View Post

    Since then, there have been several new studies that have further cast doubt on the existence of this hiatus such as Hausfather et al. 2017 which using measurements from argo floats, buoys and satellites were able to get similar results in all three that support the conclusion of Karl et al. 2015, along with Risbey et al. 2018 and Lewandowsky et al. 2018. Even if there was certainly little change in the global surface temperature during that period, it does not show the climate has suddenly paused for the time being nor does show the current global warming is going at a much slower pace than commonly depicted. While changes in global temperature may fluctuate over short periods sometimes rising, sometimes declining or becoming temporarily stagnant, the global temperature displays a significant warming trend when looking from a 100 or 200 year long time period. Here is a graph to help you understand it, especially if you look at that blue straight line.



    Well you do need to improve your reading comprehension, after all you said yourself that you can't read a long paragraph just before going into an unhinged political rant that was unfortunately deleted about how "liberals" have been manipulating measurements of the global temperature for decades.


    Um, except there was nothing really that malicious in the actual emails, aside from a couple of sources trying to portray the leak as proof of some massive scary conspiracy by cherry picking certain emails and misinterpreting what they're actually saying for example
    "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."
    Despite what denialists may claim, the use of the word decline is not referring to declining global temperatures, it's actually referring to the decline in reliability of tree rings to reflect temperatures after 1960.
    Meanwhile a number of independent investigations in several different countries have found no evidence of data tampering or any other forms of scientific misconduct in those emails, not really the smoking gun that points to a massive conspiracy by scientists and others to get rich out of some "climate alarmism"
    http://www.research.psu.edu/orp/docu...nn_Inquiry.pdf
    https://www.uea.ac.uk/documents/3154...f-ebbd16f685da
    http://www.cce-review.org/pdf/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf

    Edit
    Did I really just struck one of your nerves, the reason why the tree ring data was replaced was because that since 1960, tree growth particularly in Northern high latitudes have slowed or decline possibly as a result of global dimming and droughts induced by anthropocentric climate change, reducing their reliability as proxies for temperatures from the past few decades. (D'Arrigo 2008) (Briffa 1998)
    I could go on and on and on but to put it simply the leaked emails do not prove anything about a global conspiracy by scientists to fabricate climate records in a get rich quick scheme, to insist otherwise is to be extremely ignorant of what is actually being said and disingenuous.

    Back to that blog post, Watts' claim that the buoy data was adjusted upwards to match ship data in a biased attempt to create a warming tend completely falls apart when the same warming trend is produced from adjusting the ship data to match the buoy data as seen in Huang et al. 2015 which was published a few months before Karl et al. 2015. There is also numerous other problems with Watts' analysis of Karl et al. 2015 such as when he rather mindlessly regurgitated a fabricated graph of HadCRUT4 data from the Daily Fail claiming that it disproved the conclusion of Karl et al. 2015 when it had in fact produced the same warming trend from 1997-2017 along with data from Berkeley Earth albeit slightly higher than Karl et al. 2015. All of this could have been avoided if Watts, you and so many other climate change denialists had done a little bit of fact checking but instead you all perpetuated a series of myths. Not to mention the original source of all these claims, Bates acted in a very misleading likely deceptive manner according to an investigation on the matter by the MITRE committee which found Bates had later criticised a internal review which was conducted and approved under his own authority.


    Read it again, there wasn't any instance that I had accused anyone of deleting that post.

    Given your deliberate ignorance on the topic of climate change, it seems that you mainly oppose the notion of AGW from an ideological point of view, dismissing it as some globalist liberal scheme, rejecting evidence that you do not like, not out of any actual scientific skepticism. It would beneficial if you were cut it out with this behavior. Why?, it shows that you cannot separate politics from climate science and that you have a massive political bias
    I just noticed that you went back and edited your post 5 days after I responded to it so it would look like my response was made up. That's just pathetic.

  3. #383
    Genava's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    I just noticed that you went back and edited your post 5 days after I responded to it so it would look like my response was made up. That's just pathetic.
    You are quoting him before to respond and he added an "edit" section. Nothing misleading. Calm down.
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  4. #384
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Ha! Simple edit..that is conspiracy! See, that is way how those "green" organizations are conspiring!
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Genava View Post
    You are quoting him before to respond and he added an "edit" section. Nothing misleading. Calm down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Ha! Simple edit..that is conspiracy! See, that is way how those "green" organizations are conspiring!
    When I made a mistake I didn't try to hide it. I took the hit. He should have made his point in another post with a clarification. This was just an attempt at being deceptive. It speaks to integrity, which is clearly lacking.

  6. #386
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    When I made a mistake I didn't try to hide it. I took the hit. He should have made his point in another post with a clarification. This was just an attempt at being deceptive. It speaks to integrity, which is clearly lacking.
    Eh its just a bad habit of mine that I do sometimes, I will stop.

  7. #387
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomPerson2000 View Post
    Eh its just a bad habit of mine that I do sometimes, I will stop.
    Fair enough. I typically use the edit feature to correct grammatical errors when it will let me or to add a link. For some reason this site makes these things difficult. It's the only site where these things occur. Maybe its in my settings.

  8. #388
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    When I made a mistake I didn't try to hide it. I took the hit. He should have made his point in another post with a clarification. This was just an attempt at being deceptive. It speaks to integrity, which is clearly lacking.
    I don't think so. First posting here is not a job so of course obviously grammar and spelling almost always need editing. But second you might find the link or data you really wanted not the one used because you were in a hurry. Unlike the hasty email you can't take back on reflection you decided some statement was not making sense or could have been said differently. It certainly within you ability to grasp a quote and hold so it stands unrevised. If I recall correctly there was an iteration of the form that allowed you see the log of edits. I suppose you could argue politeness might dictate significant alterations so say a chain of replies based on something omitted or not able to react to a major addition might be obvious.
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  9. #389
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    This paper was just published and it refutes the IPCC report on climate change. AWG warming is only 0.01C.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.00165.pdf

  10. #390
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    This paper was just published and it refutes the IPCC report on climate change. AWG warming is only 0.01C.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.00165.pdf
    Its a pre-print without peer review. And has a rather high level of self citation that is again not published in a peer review journal.
    Last edited by conon394; July 12, 2019 at 04:05 PM.
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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

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  11. #391
    Genava's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
    This paper was just published and it refutes the IPCC report on climate change. AWG warming is only 0.01C.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.00165.pdf
    Mostly circular arguments in this paper. The only way he rejects the contribution of the CO2 is through his own calculation of the forcing, ignoring the basic physics and direct observation of the increasing greenhouse effect:
    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/2003GL018765
    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/2009JD011800
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._1970_and_1997
    http://asl.umbc.edu/pub/chepplew/jou...eldman_CO2.pdf

    Moreover, about the clouds there are enough indication to conclude they are not causing the current warming:
    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...6010/1523.long
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  12. #392

    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Personally I must condemn any who stray from my personal beliefs as handed down by the Holy Apostolic Church of St. Al Gore who predicted that by this point the world would be beyond redemption due to apologetically- sun monster- post apocalyptic - ozone layer destroying prophecies. Anyone who denies Al Gore's propephies are obviously racist, sexist, hompophobe etc, etc hate groups for denying SCIENCE. Oh wait. All of this is as best Larping fantasy mode without a moderator and Al Gore is a complete moron but because liberals learn from nothing, they insist the evil sun monster will destroy the earth within 11 years unless we adopt socialism which includes a "living wage" for those who "refuse to work?"

    Nice. Exactly how ing stupid do you think we are?

  13. #393
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Nice. Exactly how ing stupid do you think we are?
    Well I'm not exactly sure what you are replying to - but if it is buying BW's link than sadly and unfortunately you are not scoring points believing it.

    An unpublished paper almost exclusively supported by unpublished self references is not impressive or even evidence. If you are only referencing your own work you are doing it wrong in hard science. You should be citing the replication paper by a different lead author. 6 references and no data a abstract?
    Last edited by conon394; July 12, 2019 at 10:37 PM.
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    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #394

    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Personally I must condemn any who stray from my personal beliefs as handed down by the Holy Apostolic Church of St. Al Gore who predicted that by this point the world would be beyond redemption due to apologetically- sun monster- post apocalyptic - ozone layer destroying prophecies. Anyone who denies Al Gore's propephies are obviously racist, sexist, hompophobe etc, etc hate groups for denying SCIENCE. Oh wait. All of this is as best Larping fantasy mode without a moderator and Al Gore is a complete moron but because liberals learn from nothing, they insist the evil sun monster will destroy the earth within 11 years unless we adopt socialism which includes a "living wage" for those who "refuse to work?"

    Nice. Exactly how ing stupid do you think we are?
    If that paragraph is any indication of your understanding of the Scientific Community, very.
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  15. #395

    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    So by your own admission then we must fund the lifestyles of people who "refuse to work" in order to safe the planet from global warming and your hilariously smug prediction of imminent planetary extinction and destruction must be respected because why...it fosters your own political agenda? Your self deluding agenda is founded on the glimmer and unsubstantiated basis of "science", but anyone with a basic understanding of theology recognized your ideology for the crap that it is. Almost undeniably you are an athiest or agnostic, someone who spews crap about Chsritianity as being something awful. Oh no! What you'll fail to acknowledge if that you're a cult leader yourself ideiologically speaking. Your original sin is polluting, or simple existing, your redemtive ideology is green methodology, and if I have to explain to you the extent that you are involved in an apocalyptic cult, you've missed the point of environmentalism completely.

    No thanks. Your scuba level understanding of policy, as always, just gives me cause to laugh at how awful our lives would be if your ideology wins out.

  16. #396
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    This video is less than 18 minutes long. It includes an audio conversation with a former IPCC committee head who quit the organization in disgust, accusing them of publishing false information; so much for scientific consensus:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViY2J3LPgN4

  17. #397
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    So by your own admission then we must fund the lifestyles of people who "refuse to work" in order to safe the planet from global warming and your hilariously smug prediction of imminent planetary extinction and destruction must be respected because why...it fosters your own political agenda? Your self deluding agenda is founded on the glimmer and unsubstantiated basis of "science", but anyone with a basic understanding of theology recognized your ideology for the crap that it is. Almost undeniably you are an athiest or agnostic, someone who spews crap about Chsritianity as being something awful. Oh no! What you'll fail to acknowledge if that you're a cult leader yourself ideiologically speaking. Your original sin is polluting, or simple existing, your redemtive ideology is green methodology, and if I have to explain to you the extent that you are involved in an apocalyptic cult, you've missed the point of environmentalism completely.

    No thanks. Your scuba level understanding of policy, as always, just gives me cause to laugh at how awful our lives would be if your ideology wins out.
    PSA, this is what Breitbart, /pol/, and r/thedonald do to the brain.
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  18. #398
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    So by your own admission then we must fund the lifestyles of people who "refuse to work" in order to safe the planet from global warming and your hilariously smug prediction of imminent planetary extinction and destruction must be respected because why...it fosters your own political agenda? Your self deluding agenda is founded on the glimmer and unsubstantiated basis of "science", but anyone with a basic understanding of theology recognized your ideology for the crap that it is. Almost undeniably you are an athiest or agnostic, someone who spews crap about Chsritianity as being something awful. Oh no! What you'll fail to acknowledge if that you're a cult leader yourself ideiologically speaking. Your original sin is polluting, or simple existing, your redemtive ideology is green methodology, and if I have to explain to you the extent that you are involved in an apocalyptic cult, you've missed the point of environmentalism completely.

    No thanks. Your scuba level understanding of policy, as always, just gives me cause to laugh at how awful our lives would be if your ideology wins out.
    Am missing some larger conversation between you two?

    "must fund the lifestyles of people who "refuse to work" Who are these people please clarify


    --------------
    This video is less than 18 minutes long. It includes an audio conversation with a former IPCC committee head who quit the organization in disgust, accusing them of publishing false information; so much for scientific consensus:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViY2J3LPgN4
    More asked to leave because he is a crank and his shoddy work/cherry picking on sea levels can't stand replication believes in dowsing and conspiracy theory.

    Just because you can dig an otherwise solid scientist who happened to also believe in Bigfoot does not refute the consensus that it is a myth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Krantz
    Last edited by conon394; July 13, 2019 at 09:09 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #399

    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    So by your own admission then we must fund the lifestyles of people who "refuse to work" in order to safe the planet from global warming and your hilariously smug prediction of imminent planetary extinction and destruction must be respected because why...it fosters your own political agenda? Your self deluding agenda is founded on the glimmer and unsubstantiated basis of "science", but anyone with a basic understanding of theology recognized your ideology for the crap that it is. Almost undeniably you are an athiest or agnostic, someone who spews crap about Chsritianity as being something awful. Oh no! What you'll fail to acknowledge if that you're a cult leader yourself ideiologically speaking. Your original sin is polluting, or simple existing, your redemtive ideology is green methodology, and if I have to explain to you the extent that you are involved in an apocalyptic cult, you've missed the point of environmentalism completely.

    No thanks. Your scuba level understanding of policy, as always, just gives me cause to laugh at how awful our lives would be if your ideology wins out.
    If your goal is to change their minds, you are doing bad job Pontifex. If anything, you are just perpetuating the "ideology" (as if you can define it and assume it has consistency within the minds of its "adopters") by defining them as something and painting their side as some cultish ideological hive mind. You think any "liberal" reads these comments and says "wow, I really am just part of a cult... better restructure my entire world view"?

    Pointless banter like this is destructive, as it is more likely to initiate biological defense mechanisms that tighten the grip on stances (which people will hold onto more tightly if you associate it with their identity), and destroy every psychological avenue which allows for some form of consensus or understood points of disagreement. At this point, whether you believe that it is a problem or not, climate change is an issue that human beings will hold onto even if you had a mountain of evidence that showed that there is nothing you can do about it. It is deep seeded into identity and culture at this point, so your best bet is push against it is to demonstrate if there are dangerous consequences to certain approaches that are being taken to solve the issue. Or advocate for solutions that you feel are beneficial for both sides (like for example, I'm sure you appreciate a reforestation campaign that could provide you some nice scenery). That way, people who want to fight climate change with approaches that don't hurt our society or threaten stability and people who don't believe/don't care can go on living life. If you present yourself as an enemy or if you perceive them as an enemy, ultimately they give a **** what you think and just perceive you as person that just needs to be beaten. Their "ideology" will go unchallenged, and there is higher risk that they will try to implement programs that you perceive as dangerous because they just view you as a threat to progress (which will lead to conflict).

    If you just want conflict, go ahead and just ignore what I just said and keep doing what you are doing. Basil will be recruiting when the libs come for your individuality and try to integrate you into the hive mind (after they fix your undesirable traits of course!) so I'm sure you guys will be in good hands. Once you guys win, let me know when you guys fix human biology to prevent people from creating culture or ideology that might lead to fighting again. Maybe then, I'll come out of the bunker.

  20. #400
    Stario's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Is it Game Over on the climate front?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geneva
    Actually, Muller was still financed by the Heartland institute and oil companies during his first work demonstrating that the global temperatures are increasing as stated in other institutions.
    Is this meant to somehow invalidate my point about Muller being out right fraudulent!? Cool Story BRO!
    As I said when the big oil companies where funding Muller, he was a skeptic, now he's funded by the "global warming alarmist" crowd so he now believes climate change is "induced by human activities".

    edit:

    So now that we finally got all this sorted out lets rewind a bit...

    Lets go back to my earlier point that is:

    ...your NASA + NOAA references we know have been tampered with the data & are therefore STILL false/unreliable...
    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/...tipping-point/
    Last edited by Stario; July 14, 2019 at 11:06 AM.

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