Is it Game Over on the climate front?

[Stario]

The Earth is cooling

[Stario]

double post

[Genava]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolog...alaeotemps.svg
The Earth is cooling

As much as biodiversity is increasing:

[B. W.]

If you are interested on the topic, the article is available here:
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/...FULLTEXT01.pdf

Indeed there are historical accounts about really bad weather events during the years 535–536 occurring in Northern Europe. Ice core sulfate records matches these events and strongly suggest volcanic activity being the main cause. So the fear was real if this viking had some accounts of these times from his family. The article proposes the solar eruption of 774-775 to be the cause of his worrying. If this hasn't caused climatic changes, it probably caused strange sky event like turning it red (like it happened in 1770).





And:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....1002/grl.50425

Reading that pdf was kinda like reading Hamlet's Mill; full of information, but dry as a desert bone with regards to literary artistry.

Since you like charts:

[Genava]

Cute how they cherry-picked from 1997 to 2015. What is telling the full dataset on the webpage of the RSS ?


http://images.remss.com/msu/msu_time_series.html

[Stario]

I think that's precisely the problem with global warming scaremongers- they only choose to show a very small part of the graph (i.e. from 1980-2020), that makes it look like the earth is warming; however when u look at the whole graph going back a few thousand years it clearly shows that the earth in not warming at all- temperatures have been quite steady.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/All_palaeotemps.svg/1920px-All_palaeotemps.svg.png

[swabian]

I think that's precisely the problem with global warming scaremongers- they only choose to show a very small part of the graph (i.e. from 1980-2020), that makes it look like the earth is warming; however when u look at the whole graph going back a few thousand years it clearly shows that the earth in not warming at all.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/All_palaeotemps.svg/1920px-All_palaeotemps.svg.png

Especially you as an advocate for the people (i suppose) should realize that this is what is going to happen. Is "the establishment" too rigt for Marx this time?

[Stario]

Especially you as an advocate for the people (i suppose) should realize that this is what is going to happen. Is "the establishment" too rigt for Marx this time?

whats your point?

[swabian]

whats your point?

STFU and GTFO. Do you know those games, you little stalinist?

[Stario]

STFU and GTFO. Do you know those games, you little stalinist?

You mad?

[swabian]

You mad?

Oh yes, i am. Was about time that someone kicked that puppy.

[Stario]

Oh yes, i am. Was about time that someone kicked that puppy.

Animal cruelty- poor form man

[Genava]

Studies do not support blog’s claim that volcanic activity is causing melting of West Antarctic glaciers
https://climatefeedback.org/claimrev...ctic-glaciers/

Unsupported claim: "Volcanoes Melting West Antarctic Glaciers, Not Global Warming[...] Three new research studies confirm that geothermal heat flow, not man-made global warming, is the dominant cause of West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) melting."

This claim is not supported by the three studies cited in the article. The article misinterprets the implications of one study and explicitly rejects the conclusions of the other two. All three studies, which investigated geothermal conditions beneath portions of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the past behavior of the ice, simply aimed to better understand how the ice sheet will respond to continued human-caused climate change.

Misrepresents source: The three studies cited to support this claim do not draw this conclusion, nor do their results support it.
Fails to grasp significance of observation: The estimated geothermal heat flow occurring beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is not enough to cause the modern ice loss trend. Instead, geothermal heat merely helps explain why and how changes in climate and ocean circulation are causing the ice sheet to melt.

This claim was included in a January 2020 article posted by IceAgeNow.info. It primarily quotes a June 2018 article by James Kamis, published on PlateClimatology.com, which makes the same claim. Similar to another article by Kamis recently evaluated by Climate Feedback, this one misrepresents the findings of three studies by stating that glacial ice is melting due to geothermal heat flow beneath the ice rather than climate change.

The first study[1] examines evidence for volcanic heat flow beneath a portion of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet known as Pine Island Glacier, which is located near the Amundsen Sea. The study does not claim that this volcanic heat flow is the cause of modern ice loss measured there. It explains that “the existence of subglacial volcanism impacts both the stable and unstable dynamics of an ice sheet such as the [West Antarctic Ice Sheet]”. Subglacial volcanism can cause the base of a glacier to thaw, which causes them to behave differently than when they are frozen to the ground and can make them more vulnerable to rapid retreat. In addition, the presence of moving meltwater at the base further enables the glacier to slide along the ground.

The study describes how volcanic heat flow can be used to accurately model the future behavior of the Pine Island Glacier. It says, “The magnitude and the variations in the rate of volcanic heat supplied to the Pine Island Glacier, either by internal magma migration, or by an increase in volcanism as a consequence of ice sheet thinning, may impact the future dynamics of the Pine Island Glacier, during the contemporary period of climate-driven glacial retreat.” [Emphasis added.]

The second study cited in the article[2] analyzed GPS measurements of vertical bedrock movement beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Due to a process similar to buoyancy (but called “isostasy” in this case), Earth’s crust rises up or sinks down into the mantle as weight (such as from an ice sheet) is added or removed. The researchers noted that as Antarctica loses ice, the bedrock beneath it is slowly lifting. Their work involved estimating the characteristics of the mantle beneath West Antarctica to explain the especially rapid rate of bedrock uplift that has been measured.

The PlateClimatology.com article rejects the study’s conclusions and instead claims, without evidence, that the bedrock uplift is due to hot mantle rock that is rising and fueling increased volcanic activity. The study does not support this claim.

The third study[3] examined a record of the behavior of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet over the past 11,000 years. (As with the second study, the PlateClimatology.com article mistakenly lists the title of a press release about the study as the title of the study.) This study found that the ice sheet retreated about 10,000 years ago before then stabilizing and expanding. The researchers used a model to investigate why it stabilized and applied this knowledge to discuss how the ice sheet will behave as it continues to retreat today.

The PlateClimatology.com article asserts that, without evidence of a similar period of retreat along the more-stable East Antarctic Ice Sheet, the past retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet must be due to volcanic activity rather than climate warming.

This directly contradicts the study, which states, “In this simulation, rising sea-level and surface temperatures during the last glacial termination drive grounding-line retreat through regions currently occupied by the Ronne and Ross ice shelves.”

REFERENCES
1- Loose et al (2018) Evidence of an active volcanic heat source beneath the Pine Island Glacier, Nature Communications
2- Barletta et al (2018) Observed rapid bedrock uplift in Amundsen Sea Embayment promotes ice-sheet stability, Science
3- Kingslake et al (2018) Extensive retreat and re-advance of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet during the Holocene, Nature

[B. W.]

Studies do not support blog’s claim that volcanic activity is causing melting of West Antarctic glaciers
https://climatefeedback.org/claimrev...ctic-glaciers/

Unsupported claim: "Volcanoes Melting West Antarctic Glaciers, Not Global Warming[...] Three new research studies confirm that geothermal heat flow, not man-made global warming, is the dominant cause of West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) melting."

This claim is not supported by the three studies cited in the article. The article misinterprets the implications of one study and explicitly rejects the conclusions of the other two. All three studies, which investigated geothermal conditions beneath portions of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet and the past behavior of the ice, simply aimed to better understand how the ice sheet will respond to continued human-caused climate change.

Misrepresents source: The three studies cited to support this claim do not draw this conclusion, nor do their results support it.
Fails to grasp significance of observation: The estimated geothermal heat flow occurring beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is not enough to cause the modern ice loss trend. Instead, geothermal heat merely helps explain why and how changes in climate and ocean circulation are causing the ice sheet to melt.

This claim was included in a January 2020 article posted by IceAgeNow.info. It primarily quotes a June 2018 article by James Kamis, published on PlateClimatology.com, which makes the same claim. Similar to another article by Kamis recently evaluated by Climate Feedback, this one misrepresents the findings of three studies by stating that glacial ice is melting due to geothermal heat flow beneath the ice rather than climate change.

The first study[1] examines evidence for volcanic heat flow beneath a portion of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet known as Pine Island Glacier, which is located near the Amundsen Sea. The study does not claim that this volcanic heat flow is the cause of modern ice loss measured there. It explains that “the existence of subglacial volcanism impacts both the stable and unstable dynamics of an ice sheet such as the [West Antarctic Ice Sheet]”. Subglacial volcanism can cause the base of a glacier to thaw, which causes them to behave differently than when they are frozen to the ground and can make them more vulnerable to rapid retreat. In addition, the presence of moving meltwater at the base further enables the glacier to slide along the ground.

The study describes how volcanic heat flow can be used to accurately model the future behavior of the Pine Island Glacier. It says, “The magnitude and the variations in the rate of volcanic heat supplied to the Pine Island Glacier, either by internal magma migration, or by an increase in volcanism as a consequence of ice sheet thinning, may impact the future dynamics of the Pine Island Glacier, during the contemporary period of climate-driven glacial retreat.” [Emphasis added.]

The second study cited in the article[2] analyzed GPS measurements of vertical bedrock movement beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Due to a process similar to buoyancy (but called “isostasy” in this case), Earth’s crust rises up or sinks down into the mantle as weight (such as from an ice sheet) is added or removed. The researchers noted that as Antarctica loses ice, the bedrock beneath it is slowly lifting. Their work involved estimating the characteristics of the mantle beneath West Antarctica to explain the especially rapid rate of bedrock uplift that has been measured.

The PlateClimatology.com article rejects the study’s conclusions and instead claims, without evidence, that the bedrock uplift is due to hot mantle rock that is rising and fueling increased volcanic activity. The study does not support this claim.

The third study[3] examined a record of the behavior of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet over the past 11,000 years. (As with the second study, the PlateClimatology.com article mistakenly lists the title of a press release about the study as the title of the study.) This study found that the ice sheet retreated about 10,000 years ago before then stabilizing and expanding. The researchers used a model to investigate why it stabilized and applied this knowledge to discuss how the ice sheet will behave as it continues to retreat today.

The PlateClimatology.com article asserts that, without evidence of a similar period of retreat along the more-stable East Antarctic Ice Sheet, the past retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet must be due to volcanic activity rather than climate warming.

This directly contradicts the study, which states, “In this simulation, rising sea-level and surface temperatures during the last glacial termination drive grounding-line retreat through regions currently occupied by the Ronne and Ross ice shelves.”

REFERENCES
1- Loose et al (2018) Evidence of an active volcanic heat source beneath the Pine Island Glacier, Nature Communications
2- Barletta et al (2018) Observed rapid bedrock uplift in Amundsen Sea Embayment promotes ice-sheet stability, Science
3- Kingslake et al (2018) Extensive retreat and re-advance of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet during the Holocene, Nature

You keep changing the dynamic of the conversation faster than a New York street huckster. My "cheery picked" data refuted your "cheery picked" data that showed the earth had warmed the last few years. It factually has not.

Now you've gone on a path that diverts from the issue of El Nino warming and its cause. The fact is that the global warming models do no incorporate the effect of geo-thermal warming in their models.

There are dozens and dozens of articles that support plate climate theory. Why just pick only three?

More relevant facts:

• All El Niños originate at the same fixed “Point Source” located east of Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. Fixed point sources are typical of geological features, and not typical of ever moving atmospheric or ocean current energy sources.
• The Papua New Guinea / Solomon Island area is the most geologically active (volcanic eruptions and earthquakes), and complex deep-ocean regions on earth.
• The shape/map pattern of El Niño sea surface temperature anomalies are unique / one of a kind. These shapes do not match every changing atmospheric or ocean current shapes/map patterns.
• The El Niño sea surface temperature anomalies have “linear” and “intense” boundaries inferring that the energy source is fixed at one point, and is very powerful.
• The shape/distribution pattern of super-heated and chemically charged fluid flow from fixed point source deep-ocean hydrothermal vents is a very good mini-analogy of the larger El Niño ocean warming shapes/distribution patterns.
• The shape/distribution pattern of super-heated and chemically charged fluid flow from fixed point source large continental / dry land volcanic eruptions is a fair analogy of El Niño ocean warming patterns.
• The amount of energy needed to generate an El Niño can be mathematically modeled using a 20 by 30 mile volcanically / earthquake active deep-ocean area (“point source”). The measured energy released from the Yellowstone Plateau, a 20 by 30-mile area, is a good mathematical analogy.
• El Niños do not occur in a predictable historical pattern, rather they occur randomly. This is indicative of a geological forces origin such as volcanic eruptions which are not predictable.
• El Niño-like events do not occur elsewhere in Pacific. Why? If they are atmospheric in origin, there should at least be other mini-El Niño’s. There are none.
• La Niñas originate from the same fixed point source as El Niño’s. This implies both are geological in nature. La Nina’s represents the cooling fluid flow phase from a geological feature.
• Atmospherically based El Niño computer prediction models consistently fail, likely because they are modeling the “effects” of geologically heated oceans and not the root “cause” of the El Niño’s.
• Historical records indicate that the first “recorded” El Niño occurred in 1525 observed by Spanish explorers. Other studies suggest strong ancient El Niño’s ended Peruvian civilizations. The main point here is that strong El Niño’s are natural, and not increasing in relationship to global warming as contended by many climate scientists.

[Genava]

All El Niños originate at the same fixed “Point Source” located east of Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. Fixed point sources are typical of geological features, and not typical of ever moving atmospheric or ocean current energy sources.

The hypothesis of James Kamis:


It doesn't look like something warming from beneath:




You can check the published papers for convincing references:
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/public/pme...tQualifier=ALL
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/public/pme...tQualifier=ALL

Edit: the same for the dynamics, most of the warming comes from the East to the center.

https://phys.org/news/2016-09-strong...nter-nasa.html

[B. W.]

The hypothesis of James Kamis:


It doesn't look like something warming from beneath:




You can check the published papers for convincing references:
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/public/pme...tQualifier=ALL
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/public/pme...tQualifier=ALL

Edit: the same for the dynamics, most of the warming comes from the East to the center.

https://phys.org/news/2016-09-strong...nter-nasa.html

Your animation runs too fast. It can't be paused or slowed down for further scrutiny. Unacceptable.

Meanwhile the warmer temperatures you claim don't appear to be prevailing:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/...e-alaska-cold/

[Genava]

Your animation runs too fast. It can't be paused or slowed down for further scrutiny. Unacceptable.

Meanwhile the warmer temperatures you claim don't appear to be prevailing:

You talk about cold weather but I still feel your burn man. There is not only the animation that runs too fast for you.

[Stario]

Tony Heller does a fantastic video of the cherry picking done by US propaganda agencies formerly known as “scientific”.
A fantastic & concise expose of the climate scam!

[Genava]

What is funny with Tony Heller and his horde of minions is that he is spreading so much BS that even moderate-right-wing youtubers are criticizing him. With of course the minions hurling on them to defend their idol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjPkclkZh6o

And if Tony Heller wants to prove global manipulation, a minimum of honesty and integrity should be to not lie and manipulate as well to reach his goal:
https://climatefeedback.org/authors/tony-heller/
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2017/01...lers-snow-job/
https://tamino.wordpress.com/2017/01...ow-job-part-2/
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2014...e-temperature/
https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/c...ent-committee/

[Stario]

What is funny with Tony Heller and his horde of minions is that he is spreading so much BS that even right-wing youtubers are criticizing him. With of course the minions hurling on them to defend their idol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjPkclkZh6o

LOL! the debunking Tony Heller video got roughly 70% dislikes- this should be this first clue it is utter BS! I actually wasted my time watching this utter crap! & it certainly debunks nothing.

It is very dishonest political maneuvers by NOAA and NASA. NASA has intentionally fudged the global temperature record going back to delete the medieval warming + the cooling we experienced in the 1800's.
By recreating the temperature record using this deleted data, we can see how NASA fudged the data in order to push their own political narrative of the warming Earth. We now know that the hottest years on record where in the late 1930s. Also the radiative forcing is not being amplified as it has been predicted in the climate models.

As a side note & just out of pure fascination- the 'likes' Tony Heller got on his YouTube video a fantastic video of the cherry picking done by US propaganda agencies -is a clear sign most of us aren't buying into the lies being pushed on us by mainstream media & certain scientists who are also in the pockets of politicians.
It seems money is the driver of anthropogenic global warming & fear-mongering; it is unlikely 'man-made' global warming. It has been well established that the temperature data has been manipulated/altered to turn the cooling trend into a warming trend...it is game over on the climate front...