New balance for walls and siege (DaC 3.0 submod)

[dzeltens]

Files updated for DaC V3.0 in the starting post

[Dutch-Balrog]

You need two more forum posts to be able to edit them, comment on two random threads and go ahead.

[LordBlackblade]

I didn't even realize this mod existed until just now. I actually just came to see if Galu had uploaded his Total War submod as of yet. And then I noticed that yours was the only one marked as 3.0 in the submods thread that actually caught my eye. Alright, I find this idea lovely (because I love spamming with trebuchets). Another thing I love is siege defenses. From what I've just read, I expect it to be pretty good. I'll give you some further feedback once I've clocked in some hours of gameplay with these changes.

[dzeltens]

Thank you! I had no idea my submod was included in the list, that's great!

[bob124]

I've been trying this mod and really like it, it forces much more care to be taken with sieges when on the attack. Have you found a way to edit the walls so archers on them will all shoot (and not straight up in the air)? That would be a huge improvement.

[Dutch-Balrog]

That would require to get rid of the hitboxes on the battlements. Which means editing every wall asset.

[dzeltens]

Yeah, I'm afraid that's waaay above my modding skills level.

[bob124]

Oh ok, I didn't realize how difficult it was. I do have a little feedback on the battering rams, could you decrease the time needed to bash a gate down by maybe 25%? In the battles I've done I can usually take the walls with siege towers long before the gate is destroyed, rendering the rams useless.

[Samael.]

strengthening the gate is fair. Buffing the walls to no end though isnt the way to go i think. You already dont like to take siege equipment with you because it slows you down significantly on the campaign map. I already only use catapults only when playing with the dwarves (for obvious reasons) and only spam ladders when fighting a siege battle. Its just not effecitve to go through the gate or even were the A.I. is defending. Especially not since the towers got a massive buff (which is good). Nerfing catapults in the ground only makes you not use them at all anymore since you are better off with building ladders and stretching the A.I. thin and assault where they didnt set up at the start of the battle.

[Sebastiaan_1983]

I agree that the gates should be made stronger but not the walls.
I have modded my own version where i doubled the strength of the gates, and increased the rate of fire from the towers. I also slghtly decreased the damage from catapults and increased the damage from trebuchets.
This means destroying towers should be the priority of your artillery and not trying to break down a wall.

[dzeltens]

Oh ok, I didn't realize how difficult it was. I do have a little feedback on the battering rams, could you decrease the time needed to bash a gate down by maybe 25%? In the battles I've done I can usually take the walls with siege towers long before the gate is destroyed, rendering the rams useless.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree, maybe I decreased the ram damage a little bit to much. Adding 25% seems fair.

[dzeltens]

strengthening the gate is fair. Buffing the walls to no end though isnt the way to go i think. You already dont like to take siege equipment with you because it slows you down significantly on the campaign map. I already only use catapults only when playing with the dwarves (for obvious reasons) and only spam ladders when fighting a siege battle. Its just not effecitve to go through the gate or even were the A.I. is defending. Especially not since the towers got a massive buff (which is good). Nerfing catapults in the ground only makes you not use them at all anymore since you are better off with building ladders and stretching the A.I. thin and assault where they didnt set up at the start of the battle.

Well on the contrary you kind of need siege weapons even more now that the towers do more damage to avoid heavy losses. So the choise is yours - either you slow down your army or you lose your men. And from your comment I see that you kind of confirm that the human player now must think more strategically and use a variety of siege eqiupment, use ladders in weak places etc. Previously if you had even one unit of catapult - then the walls were almost nonexistent for you, they cracked like cardboard.

[dzeltens]

I agree that the gates should be made stronger but not the walls.
I have modded my own version where i doubled the strength of the gates, and increased the rate of fire from the towers. I also slghtly decreased the damage from catapults and increased the damage from trebuchets.
This means destroying towers should be the priority of your artillery and not trying to break down a wall.

That's very interesting thinking! Could you share your files?
You say the walls must stay as they are, but you decreased catapults damage - isn't it essentially the same that making the walls stronger?

[Samael.]

Well on the contrary you kind of need siege weapons even more now that the towers do more damage to avoid heavy losses. So the choise is yours - either you slow down your army or you lose your men. And from your comment I see that you kind of confirm that the human player now must think more strategically and use a variety of siege eqiupment, use ladders in weak places etc. Previously if you had even one unit of catapult - then the walls were almost nonexistent for you, they cracked like cardboard.

No thats exactly not the case. I cant even remember when i used catapults (except when playing as the dwarves) the last time. My standard set up is 8-10 ladders. Now i spread out around the settlement and attack the ai where they didnt set up their forces take the gate and the walls from there. If you nerf catapults even further now its just not a useful unit anymore (personal opinion). The human player should already think a bit more strategically if he attacks a settlement. Siege battles are always going to take more casualties than field battles so nerfing the catapult doesnt make it more strategically it takes away one way of dealing with siege battles (as long as you want to an effective and fast early game).

[dzeltens]

Catapults, even nerfed, still have their most important advantage over ladders, rams and siege towers - you don't have to besiege the settlement and build anything. So the issue of slowing you down is debatable. It just didn't seem fair and - more importantly - realistic that they used to be so OP.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Highly agree there, realistically, the Medieval 2 walls are so damn thick, not even the strongest and biggest trebuchet irl would have put a dent in it.
Irl most castle walls were like what, 3-4 metres wide? Not enough to fit like 7-8 men standing behind one another. And there's been only one occasion where a trebuchet actually managed to destroy a castle wall as far as i'm aware myself.

[Sebastiaan_1983]

That's very interesting thinking! Could you share your files?
You say the walls must stay as they are, but you decreased catapults damage - isn't it essentially the same that making the walls stronger?

Sure here you go. Yeah it sounds a bit strange however this change means it is more difficult to breach walls with catapults, but easier with trebuchets (only Dol Amroth and Gondor can train them anyway).
Basically you will have to focus on the towers now, and attack the walls once most of the towers are taken out.


descr_projectile.txtdescr_walls.txt

[Kirsch92]

This is awesome, thank you!
Is it possible to apply this to my current campaign or will i have to start over? Is the game going to crash?
I'm thinking no, but i'd like to be sure.

[dzeltens]

Thanks! This is save game compatible, don't worry.

[Ministry]

I just want to +rep for your mod, totally makes seiges in DaC 3 so much more fun.