[Decision] Small & Medium Award for Modders

[AnthoniusII]

The Artifex already serves that purpose. it is befuddling that anyone would refuse citizenship since the point of it is to recognize a model member of the site.
As I stated, resource, tools, and other guide creators would get a "yes' vote from me for Opifex. Any Artifex that vote otherwise would truly be befuddling. I do not want an award that would undermine devalue such devotion to something less than an Opifex. I also would not want to undermine the Artifex.



The point is to recognize those that have contributed greatly, but for whatever reason did not get recognized by the Opifex. The Wall of Fame would satisfy that gap.

I am not arguing the popruse Artifex award has...Please do me a small favor.
1st) Check if anyone got Artifex award without someone nominates him/her with 2-3 or more "suporters".
2nd) Please count the votes that lead giving that award. If they are more than 50 in atleast one case i will admit i am wrong. But if the average of voters in all cases all lower to 40 then you must admit that a small public relation "ellite" desides who will become and Artifex and how is not. That is not fair....for smaller -in extend of their work- modders.

[Lifthrasir]

TWC has already a Hall of Fame for those who won a Modding Award, pretty similar to the one mentioned by Quintus Hortensius Hortalus from my understanding

[Ishan]

Also, shouldn't there be a general consensus on the medal's concept art before moving anything to vote? Why the rush?

TWC has already a Hall of Fame for those who won a Modding Award, pretty similar to the one mentioned by Quintus Hortensius Hortalus from my understanding

Yes. And to add more visibility to this, I think it should be added in the main menu of forum index.

[AnthoniusII]

Partly but as AnthoniusII has explained, several great modders have never been recognized or given Optifex so the Hall of Fame idea was to give modders who have done great things that were never acknowledged a place where this is finally done.

Also, shouldn't there be a general consensus on the medal's concept art before moving anything to vote? Why the rush?

Yes. And to add more visibility to this, I think it should be added in the main menu of forum index.

Those two answers give my prospective to smaller mod awards.
If you look in Ishan's link you will nottice several mods that gained some awards.
But you can not find modders that never nominaded before by another member.
In Ishan's answer i could vote for someone but that does not mean that the winner became an Artifex or Opifex after the winning in that votting process.
Awards in a finall vote each year has nothing to do with modding attempts of certain members.
An X mod may win the title best nod of the year Y but the Z modder that created it may never achieve to become an Artifex if no one ever nominates him/her. That is the flaw of the system
Titles like mine (Artifex) are more or less a public relations result. I have a number of active members (often too few) that play my mod and they like it and nominate me for Artifex.
If you see the Artifex and Opifex votes are all a handfull in number that lead to aproval. That is not fair for a new modder that tries hard to create something of his/her own and gets nothing as aknowlege atleast for his/her attempt to persuate him/her to continue the efforts for something better.

[Lifthrasir]

Also, shouldn't there be a general consensus on the medal's concept art before moving anything to vote? Why the rush?

I'm doing my best to produce something quickly. So people will be able to comment on that point as well

[Ishan]

I'm doing my best to produce something quickly. So people will be able to comment on that point as well

Just like the Lannisters shite gold, so does Lift with masterful artwork.

[Lifthrasir]

Thank you

[Lifthrasir]

Unless I'm wrong, that's because PikeStance is having a complete different view of the 'system'. Where you and I see more these awards to promote the modding community first and, somehow and per extension, to promote the citizenship feature, all together for the site betterment, PikeStance wants to use/revalorise the citizenship feature to promote the modding community, for the betterment of the site as well btw, and as such don't share entirely our view of these awards (hope I'm clear ). To stay simple, we have the same goal but a complete opposite way to address the issue.

Anyway, I agree that the Artifex level already requiers quite a significant contribution to the site to be granted. That's where these awards can find their utility by adding intermediate levels of recognition between the existing one. Last point, what other option do we have to reward those who make a significant contribution to the site but don't want to become citizen/civitate/artifex? Because for now, it means that they need to reach a high level of contribution in the hope to be 'eligible' for a large award. In between, that's the Gobi desert for these members.
The 'support' point would remain unchanged in any case because as for awards as for citizenship, it is still tied to a curial vote. But at least, the Prot is open to non-citizens now and we can hopefully hope for more inputs to influence that voting process for awards in the right direction

[PikeStance]

I am not arguing the popruse Artifex award has...Please do me a small favor.
1st) Check if anyone got Artifex award without someone nominates him/her with 2-3 or more "suporters".
2nd) Please count the votes that lead giving that award. If they are more than 50 in atleast one case i will admit i am wrong. But if the average of voters in all cases all lower to 40 then you must admit that a small public relation "ellite" desides who will become and Artifex and how is not. That is not fair....for smaller -in extend of their work- modders.

You are preaching to the choir. I have, on occasions, invited citizens to participate in the discussion. The turn out is usually pretty good. many do not participate because they are, by the nature of modding, preoccupied. This is not meant as a criticism, but I do not recall you ever participating despite your modding expertise. One of the reasons why I suggested the Curia be moved to the Admin forum is to promote the activities of citizens.

Unless I'm wrong, that's because PikeStance is having a complete different view of the 'system'. Where you and I see more these awards to promote the modding community first and, somehow and per extension, to promote the citizenship feature, all together for the site betterment, PikeStance wants to use/revalorise the citizenship feature to promote the modding community, for the betterment of the site as well btw, and as such don't share entirely our view of these awards (hope I'm clear ). To stay simple, we have the same goal but a complete opposite way to address the issue.

I do not know where you get your notions from.

The Artifex badge was specifically created because Modders contribution was largely ignored. The badge "officially" extended that work as a citizen worthy.
In this thread, I traced the early beginnings of "rank" of citizenship.

My belief is that we do not do enough to recognize everyone from citizenship to large awards. We hold on to them so miserly that it isn't surprising that charges of elitism are laid.

Anyway, I agree that the Artifex level already requiers quite a significant contribution to the site to be granted. That's where these awards can find their utility by adding intermediate levels of recognition between the existing one. Last point, what other option do we have to reward those who make a significant contribution to the site but don't want to become citizen/civitate/artifex? Because for now, it means that they need to reach a high level of contribution in the hope to be 'eligible' for a large award. In between, that's the Gobi desert for these members.
The 'support' point would remain unchanged in any case because as for awards as for citizenship, it is still tied to a curial vote. But at least, the Prot is open to non-citizens now and we can hopefully hope for more inputs to influence that voting process for awards in the right direction

The current description

Citizenship is the fundamental award given1 by the Curia for contributions to the site and community of TWC.

The term, "significant" is often used but there isn't anything in the description that uses this term. As the standard "rose" the patronization declined. We should quite honestly be discussing a "Medium award" not an award "under" the Artifex. Then again, we need to be more giving of the Opifex and Artifex and other members contributing elsewhere.

I am a firm believer in promoting the site in general- in the areas of modding, gaming, content, and other areas.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I as proletarius would vote as well for the small awards as for the Wall of Fame.

There is no award for minor mod works. For artifex it must be a major modding work and you must be patronised. That is a major problem for modder of newer games as their potential patrons are mostly interested in the older titles. So they have a smaller chance to be recognized for artifex. A smaller award could make them more noted.

[AnthoniusII]

I as proletarius would vote as well for the small awards as for the Wall of Fame.

There is no award for minor mod works. For artifex it must be a major modding work and you must be patronised. That is a major problem for modder of newer games as their potential patrons are mostly interested in the older titles. So they have a smaller chance to be recognized for artifex. A smaller award could make them more noted.

I wouldn't bet on it...Some get nominations for Opifex today simply participating or creating a submod of a submod of an original mod.

[Lifthrasir]

That's not the point here Pike and I don't share your interpretation of the numbers you have collected. This being said, you're avoiding to answer to the question: what do you propose as recognition for someone deserving the citizen rank but refusing it? Is that member obliged to carry on to expect reaching the Opifex level before to get his contribution recognized?

If I got you right, you're in favor of a medium award but not for a small one because you definitively want that member to become artifex. Great concept: making the citizenship as compulsory to get your contribution recognized

[PikeStance]

That's not the point here Pike and I don't share your interpretation of the numbers you have collected. This being said, you're avoiding to answer to the question: what do you propose as recognition for someone deserving the citizen rank but refusing it? Is that member obliged to carry on to expect reaching the Opifex level before to get his contribution recognized?

This is a different issue. There are a couple of factors mentioned; infighting and the notion of elitism. Elitism can be alleviated by simply opening the doors to deserving members. The former can be alleviated by stopping the pettiness. You do not fix the problem by ignoring it. You fix the problem. It is that "white elephant."

If I got you right, you're in favor of a medium award but not for a small one because you definitively want that member to become artifex. Great concept: making the citizenship as compulsory to get your contribution recognized

No, you are still missing the point. I object because we do not award members now. Adding another award that is miserly handed out is a waste of time. We need to recognize the contribution member make NOW! If we hand out Opifex like it was intended, then they would actually wouldn't be a need for a "medium" award. Creating a small award for modding when those that would definitely accept the Artifex are not even approach will create another award not given. The problem won't just go away.

[Lifthrasir]

Come on, have a look at the archives to see how many awards have been given by the curia. Your assertion here is wrong.
Again you're bringing the debat on the decline of the curia for which we don't agree at all on the causes and remedy. In any case, spreading the Opifex award on a large scale for the sole excuse that it is too elitist nowadays won't help either.

Btw, you should clearly correct your position regarding this proposal to avoid confusion...

ahhhck....I have no idea where my brain was earlier. I completely misread the award. SUPPORT.

[PikeStance]

Come on, have a look at the archives to see how many awards have been given by the curia. Your assertion here is wrong.
.../In any case, spreading the Opifex award on a large scale for the sole excuse that it is too elitist nowadays won't help either.

My position is that creating new awards will not make any difference if we are already not recognizing members. We need to actually reward deserving members from the current awards. I also stated that the description of the awards would either fit within Artifex or the Opifex, so it is redundant.

Btw, you should clearly correct your position regarding this proposal to avoid confusion...

He rewrote the OP since this post and I have not made indication since then.

[AnthoniusII]

@PikeStance
I think you missed the entire nature of modding.
When people come to TWC , come to find mods that change the TW games to their liking.
Some of them fascinating with the idea to create something of their own instead of waiting others to do it for them. In that effort they share what they have acomplished with the rest of the people.
They do not come here in a constant pursuit of internet bureaucracy titles like "Citizen" OR OTHERS to fill their ego inorder to convince themselves that is a parallel universe from reality they are someone powerfull and fingered.
On the other hand all those we are involved with modding we often seak new ideas that new modders may come with ...That effort for trying to offer some modding help must be rewarded with a tiny award to convince them that they are not invisible and their effort have been notticed.
That is my opinion and that is why I LEFT THE RANKS OF ARTIFEX. When I was nominated as one i was simply a history advisor in one mod. Then Ceasar Clivus (that made the hard work) convinced that a wide help for mods was needed and that is why we created CBUR project. When i became a moddeler under the "teachings" of great modders like Absinthia, Matthaeus, Socal_Infidel , Sumskilz , Koultouras and others , i did so inorder to help people play a mod. Not to pursuit a title to carry it inorder to feel superior. Those teachers of mine -only one if i am not mistaken- got the rank of Opifex despite the fact that they were created or involved in creation of numerus mods, created tutorials and released their material for free use.
But those have passed....right or wrong they never got any more recognistion. We need though to encourage you people to follow their steps, step by step through errors and successes , in every step this community must be there present to "say" to them "continue your effort we are watching you and this is how we prove it"...

[PikeStance]

@PikeStance
I think you missed the entire nature of modding.
When people come to TWC , come to find mods that change the TW games to their liking.
Some of them fascinating with the idea to create something of their own instead of waiting others to do it for them. In that effort they share what they have acomplished with the rest of the people.
They do not come here in a constant pursuit of internet bureaucracy titles like "Citizen" OR OTHERS to fill their ego inorder to convince themselves that is a parallel universe from reality they are someone powerfull and fingered.

On the other hand all those we are involved with modding we often seak new ideas that new modders may come with ...That effort for trying to offer some modding help must be rewarded with a tiny award to convince them that they are not invisible and their effort have been notticed.

That is my opinion and that is why I LEFT THE RANKS OF ARTIFEX. When I was nominated as one i was simply a history advisor in one mod. Then Ceasar Clivus (that made the hard work) convinced that a wide help for mods was needed and that is why we created CBUR project. When i became a moddeler under the "teachings" of great modders like Absinthia, Matthaeus, Socal_Infidel , Sumskilz , Koultouras and others , i did so inorder to help people play a mod. Not to pursuit a title to carry it inorder to feel superior. Those teachers of mine -only one if i am not mistaken- got the rank of Opifex despite the fact that they were created or involved in creation of numerus mods, created tutorials and released their material for free use.
But those have passed....right or wrong they never got any more recognistion. We need though to encourage you people to follow their steps, step by step through errors and successes , in every step this community must be there present to "say" to them "continue your effort we are watching you and this is how we prove it"...

Antonius, you just describe me. Although I did not originally come to TWC looking for a mod, I did complain a lot about it. I was told by many to put my money where my mouth is. So I did.

The rank of citizenship isn't as you describe it. What is and what its purpose has been altered over the years.

To serve as a inspiration to the rest of the forum, so that members, in aspiring to join this elite group, would, in turn, demonstrate this worth through merit, good actions, and worthy debate, and in doing so enlarge and advance the purpose of this forum, which is to act as a conduit of discussion between individuals of different race, nationality, sex, etc. and in doing so, enlarge and expand the intellectual breadth of its members.

Modders were usually ignored, so the Artifex Rank was created. The title itself was at first honorary. It was later that it was granted the same rights and privileges of a Civitates (there wasn't a "Citizen badge" at the time). The caveat for becoming a Civitate is that you can make suggestions for the site. Over time, that aspect became primary and the primary reason, promotion of good discussion, became almost secondary. As I told my pure Artifex, the badge primarily awards your contribution in modding. This is true regardless if it also confers participation in the Curia. You were too hasty to remove your recognition. You earned it. For an Artifex, we still expect you to post in a manner that promotes modder and good discussion in modding. It is the same as the Civitate, but instead of discussion and debate in the common areas.

Citizenship isn't about elite status. When the Civitate rank was created, the goal was to make as inclusive as possible. But as I said, over the years, the standard rose far too high and people patronize less and less. If I had enough time in the day, I can think about 12+ members who are deserving.

Just too sum it up, Citizenship isn't about bureaucracy. That is what it has become through countless tweaking of the Constitution. It was never meant to be an award committee, but it has thrown itself into that area through the creation of "larger" awards. We have not done well recognizing many members worthy of Artifex or Opifex. Unfortunately, we have lost one more person who would be perfect to ensure the site never does, you. Honestly, what an honor to be patronized or nominated by you.

BTW, there isn't any rule that prohibits in any way awarding a member with a large award who is no longer active on the boards.

[z3n]

Ok I believe Anthonius has a fair point again. If we are to define these two awards with clear requisites we should define Opifex as well.

"Exceptional" with these new awards in place could be taken to mean above and beyond these previous awards or we could outright define it.

I would like to request @Gigantus thoughts about this, either in favor of or not in favor of defining it outright.

[The Hedge Knight]

Y'all should just be less stuffy with your nominations for existing awards. The hardest part of TWC badges has always been getting nominated in the first place and adding more won't help.

[Gigantus]

Defining these awards by way of comparing them with the Opifex requirements simply beats the purpose of it. Unless I misunderstood the whole purpose of these 'smaller' modding awards. Regretful musing about modders that one thought should have received the Opifex does not help either, collecting pertaining info and nominating them does. My guess is that the 'exceptional' definition level at the time prevented them from being nominated. If that is the issue then it's not an issue for this discussion - although it's certainly an indication what could happen if the proposed awards have the same vague criteria.

I was under the impression that the awards we are discussing are for modding publications that do not qualify for the Opifex - in other words simple (small) or extended\extensive (large) contributions. The ultimate purpose being that one acknowledges and encourages modding contributions. This is certainly not helped by discussing Opifex requirements - whether something is exceptional is, and always will be, a subjective standard that needs to be collectively agreed upon. One way to kill this small and medium award proposal is to attach equally nebulous requirements. and yes, I basically repeated myself to drive that point home.

Someone publishes a modification that is a bit more then just changing a line or two of code or recolour a texture then give him\her a pat on the back by way of a small award. If there is continued contribution over a given period or quantity then hand out a medium award. Its what I wrote in my previous response and it hasn't changed.

Suggestion: seeing that Opifex is basically an elevated award with the same premise I would suggest to stipulate that any of the awards discussed here shall be 'replaced\upgraded' by the Opifex award.

I am not sure for what reason citizenship is being brought into play - if that's a prerequisite then that's another way to kill my support. I am a firm believer in 'egg before chicken': encourage participation and make that acknowledgement visible. That acknowledged participation will be an incentive and visible marker for anyone interested in promoting members for citizenship.

In other words: put my support on hold until some consensus has been reached, I'll review it then. There is no way I am going support a measure that potentially gets applied to dozens of members (probably the most handed out awards) if it requires the same arduous procedure like major awards. That was the reason why I mentioned tangible requirements in the first place.